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jools1959

New release of Bachmann wagons

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I know that this is not very important in the great scheme of things but I was thinking when things improve, Bachmann may consider doing new releases of previous runs of wagons.  I know that people will have a “wish list” from different eras.

 

I would really like to see re-runs of these wagons but I know that there plenty of others;

 

BYA - Covered Steel Wagon

HQAG - Autoballaster 

HQAH - Autoballaster 

HQAJ - Autoballaster with Generator 

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Those are great shouts, I think the Polybulks would be nice too!

 

I’m sure I read speculation somewhere that Bachmann may not produce some of the more intricate wagons again due to the complexity/huge costs/end retail price - if so, maybe it’s time for a ‘design-clever’ approach to do some rethinking on the tooling to continue pumping out decent wagons to match newcomers Accurascale & Revolution at similar costs to help block-train buyers!

 

Cheers,

James

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If I were to be wishlisting for blue box wagons, an accurate and not generic GW 5 planker in late GW or early BR livery would be top of my list.

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22 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I know that this is not very important in the great scheme of things but I was thinking when things improve, Bachmann may consider doing new releases of previous runs of wagons.  I know that people will have a “wish list” from different eras.

 

I would really like to see re-runs of these wagons but I know that there plenty of others;

 

BYA - Covered Steel Wagon

HQAG - Autoballaster 

HQAH - Autoballaster 

HQAJ - Autoballaster with Generator 

 

Bachmann have never done  the HQA, only the JJA. The HQA is fairly different to the JJA.

 

regards

Darryl

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Hi everyone,


I would like a second set of auto ballasters and a few extra JPA’s in Castle cement. Bachmann certainly gave us a lot of impressive modern era wagons and it will be a shame if some are never produced again. I’m just glad/was fortunate to buy decent rakes when prices were very low. When they started going up I hunted out the extra HTA’s and HHA’s to create full train loads for the future WCML layout.

 

Revolution, Accurascale and Cavalex are really starting to dominate the modern era between them and at good prices which is good for us modellers.

 

cheers

Mark

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Posted (edited)
On 12/05/2020 at 19:06, James Makin said:

Those are great shouts, I think the Polybulks would be nice too!

 

I’m sure I read speculation somewhere that Bachmann may not produce some of the more intricate wagons again due to the complexity/huge costs/end retail price - if so, maybe it’s time for a ‘design-clever’ approach to do some rethinking on the tooling to continue pumping out decent wagons to match newcomers Accurascale & Revolution at similar costs to help block-train buyers!

 

Cheers,

James

 

Same for the IPA Car transporter wagons.

 

If they were 'dumbed down' with less detail - people wouldnt buy them

 

If they were made as they were previously with a higher price - people wouldnt buy them

 

Dont forget Accurascale and Revolution are both very small enterprises compared to Bachmann, you wouldnt need to take your socks off to count the number of employees for both firms combined

Edited by LaGrange
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7 hours ago, LaGrange said:

 

Same for the IPA Car transporter wagons.

 

If they were 'dumbed down' with less detail - people wouldnt buy them

 

If they were made as they were previously with a higher price - people wouldnt buy them

 

Dont forget Accurascale and Revolution are both very small enterprises compared to Bachmann, you wouldnt need to take your socks off to count the number of employees for both firms combined


I see Revolution are doing the IPA’s

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36 minutes ago, jools1959 said:


I see Revolution are doing the IPA’s

 

Different version to Bachmanns though...

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22 hours ago, LaGrange said:

...If they were 'dumbed down' with less detail - people wouldnt buy them

 

If they were made as they were previously with a higher price - people wouldnt buy them...

Bachmann and their retailers are going to find out what 'people' will pay for the price asked. There will always be some  who will pay. Whether their purchases are going to be enough to make a sustainable business case will be the question.

 

It's not as though Bachmann are dramatically out of step with the other 'full range' OO business, when directly comparable items are compared. There's a cost in being a larger business, with the capability to sustain a proportionally large range of product choice; and if that is wanted, then the customer has to be prepared to pay the price that goes with it.

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The wagons that Bachmann have massively missed a trick on is the GBRF coal and biomass convert wagons as they are prime Bachmann territory.

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On 12/05/2020 at 18:50, jools1959 said:

BYA - Covered Steel Wagon

HQAG - Autoballaster 

HQAH - Autoballaster 

HQAJ - Autoballaster with Generator 

 

BYAs, not sure there is much of a demand for these? I bought a DB BYA brand new from my local shop a few months ago! Admittedly I was lucky but what I am saying is it's not that long since they did a run.

 

JJAs I presume you mean (I don't think they did HQAs), I would be keen for a re-run in NR, might be a good idea for them to sell in a pack of 5 like the Dapol MRAs? They are in rakes of 5 IRL I think?

 

2 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

The wagons that Bachmann have massively missed a trick on is the GBRF coal and biomass convert wagons as they are prime Bachmann territory.

 

I agree, shorty HHAs (are these keeping the HHA name?), shorty HYAs and HRAs (cut down HTAs) would all be of appeal. Would also mean limited tooling requirement given a lot of the parts moldings would be transferable from the long ones (in the case of HHA and HRA).

 

Ones I would throw into the mix would be the IIA hoppers, the more recent ones with the lids: 

66774 Turves 25/07/18 - 6E88 1224 Middleton Towers Gbrf to Goole Glassworks Gbrf

 

Or the newer GBRF Biomass wagons, these are different to the Drax ones Hornby made:

 

“William Caxton”

 

Or the JGA tankers:

 

81 70 7829 008-4 Kingsthorpe 270616

 

My 2p's worth!

 

 

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On 13/05/2020 at 17:50, MRDBLUE17 said:

a few extra JPA’s in Castle cement

 

When I went to the Doncaster show this year there were a few of those kicking about brand new (at about £30 a pop too). Not helpful in some respects but they do exist in shops it would seem.

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48 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

When I went to the Doncaster show this year there were a few of those kicking about brand new (at about £30 a pop too). Not helpful in some respects but they do exist in shops it would seem.

Hi Tom,

 

Thats not a bad price at all. I do enjoy having a good look round at shows for those odd wagons or coaches at good prices. It’s always nice when you get lucky. It’s amazing too what you find in   your local model shops.

 

My rake of 10 when new at release only cost £170 from Richard when he had his shop in Morecambe. Good times!

 

cheers

Mark

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I’d like some more Bachmann wagons - but with anything newly tooled And complex I’d be concerned now that the RRP would be astronomical to make it unviable.

 

remember those hatton’s biomass wagons and their prices ? That sort of thing.

 

It seems these days smaller manufacturers who are leaner and don’t have a parent company with expectations of enough profit to justify a production slot, are better placed with modern wagons 

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2 hours ago, rob D2 said:

remember those hatton’s biomass wagons and their prices ? That sort of thing.

 

Couldn't that partially have been down to the fact that they were initially commissioned by Drax (AFAIK) and therefore there could have been two pockets getting lined! Also because there was only going to be 1000 of each to begin with that 2000 wagons to pay for the tooling would be a tall order? And they don't seem to reduce prices once tooling is paid for do they.

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3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

...It seems these days smaller manufacturers who are leaner and don’t have a parent company with expectations of enough profit to justify a production slot, are better placed with modern wagons .

This is not restricted to wagons.  A small business, run by enthusiasts, can if those people are competent find enough capital to hire the manufacturing facilities and capability of a larger business which has made the required significant investments to develop and maintain such a service. The small business isn't carrying any significant overhead and can take the modest risk of losing their shirts without having to consider the ongoing financial health of the manufacturing operation.

 

Having been on the receiving end of this, (as just one more corporate droid within the large business) I was exceedingly glad when the opinions of those of us juggling all the balls of internal and external production demands while meeting all the corporate targets (diversity, saving the planet, performing financial handstands, wearing the smartest suits at trade shows, FoTM) were heard; and accepting external third party business ceased.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

run by enthusiasts,

 

The biggest contrast I see is in the PR activities of these companies. Where the person you speak to on FB/RMWeb/wherever is actually somebody who knows what they are talking about and passionate about it. Some of the larger companies you get the impression that the person at the other end of the internet is a run of the mill marketing/PR person who other than it being their job has little to no interest in what they are talking about. The smaller companies it seems it is the exact opposite, they are doing it because they love it.

 

Which is an understandable situation really but just an observation.

 

I do wonder if the industry is turning on its head in some respects, at least with respect to freight rolling stock. I do also think the market is very different for 60s onwards than it is before then. Before then model wagons could almost be all put in a big bag and pulled out one by one at random to build a viable train (an over simplification but hopefully you see what I mean). Therefore making new variations year after year after year works because you can spend £12 on a plank wagon and add it to your pool. Hornby and Bachmann seem to be in this mentality of doing 1 numbered version of a type of wagon every year or so is a good thing to do.

 

After then stuff tends to be in fixed rakes, and so when a rake is complete then the buyer will probably move onto a different rake to build of a different wagon. So doing 4 or 5 numbers of the same wagon every few years makes more sense here than doing 1 every year or two. Like Dapol have been doing with their IOAs and JNAs, not like Bachmann doing 1 weathered HHA like they did last year. Or the newcomers doing enough at once so you can order a rake of different wagons and then probably won't want any more in the future.

 

I think you can order a larger variation of "current" wagons from Revolution than you can from Hornby, and Revolution make sure the project is viable before they cut metal. If there wasn't a market this wouldn't be the case!

 

Then there is also the constant churning out of the same old stuff in general. I aren't suggesting they are idiots, they should know the market better than anyone, but is there a struggle as was mentioned by @34theletterbetweenB&D to feed a monster and therefore a massive range of stuff is needed every year?

 

Edited by TomScrut
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Double edge sword isn’t it ? You need enthusiasts with the drive and knowledge for the projects , but enough business acumen to do the company side ( like accurascale ),

 

Get the balance wrong and it goes haywire - like Hornby when Simon Kohler left and it was left to young suits to run the show.

 

In bachmanns case I believe they compete for production slots with other kanda san products , so they have to make the profit level required by the parent .

 

My glass ceiling has been exceeded on all fronts by Bachmann recently . I could do with another BG or two but £45 is above my coach limit 

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On 13/05/2020 at 15:44, The Johnster said:

If I were to be wishlisting for blue box wagons, an accurate and not generic GW 5 planker in late GW or early BR livery would be top of my list.

 

At current levels, you can expect to see the thick end of £29:99 at 2020 prices, young Johnster.

I'm not complaining about Bachmann, per se: it is what it is. Just remember that a 50 wagon train is now £1,500, before we get to a locomotive and van. 4 quarterly announcements is-are, 4 opportunities to increase prices, and I'd expect Bachmann to take full advantage to keep it that way. 

 

If the big producers have a game plan to make models that are 'just' out of reach of Mr. Average, that's fine. But, they can run the risk of excluding the very market they wish to profit from. 

 

However.... These are volatile times, and no-one would gamble on the future. Might Bachmann be gambling on the fact they might not be in business by Christmas? Who can tell? Sell it high, to keep the capital flow going...  The variables are extensive, and one thing is for sure... They wouldn't tell you & I... 

 

If the public perception is that Bachmann (or, any other business) is 'coining it', then it opens the door for other entrepreneurs to fill the gaps. As yet, just a few have done that (Accurascale, etc) which might indicate the the difference between factory gate prices and retail are a little bit closer than we might imagine. 

 

Either that, or they are all a big bunch of fibbers.....

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

If the public perception is that Bachmann (or, any other business) is 'coining it', then it opens the door for other entrepreneurs to fill the gaps. As yet, just a few have done that (Accurascale, etc) which might indicate the the difference between factory gate prices and retail are a little bit closer than we might imagine. 

 

Yes, the thing is that the older companies by all accounts aren't doing particularly well whilst "coining it", and the newer ones aren't old enough for any judgement to be made and how they are funded is absolutely critical too as I think somebody else alluded to. If the owners run the company and the money is from their own pocket, and they do it to make a decent living from something they love doing, there is one massive financial pressure taken off them. If there are investors with profit demands, CEOs with massive salaries etc. then there is more things to pay for.

Edited by TomScrut

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56 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

Either that, or they are all a big bunch of fibbers.....

It's capitalism, of course they're all a big bunch of fibbers...  You raise some interesting points but I'm not quite so pessimistic; £23 seems to be about the price level for a Bachmann 5-plank open at the moment.  But it is certainly an open goal for Accurascale or Oxford.  

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3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

It's capitalism, of course they're all a big bunch of fibbers...  You raise some interesting points but I'm not quite so pessimistic; £23 seems to be about the price level for a Bachmann 5-plank open at the moment.  But it is certainly an open goal for Accurascale or Oxford.  

 

That's fine. I'd suggest that we compare notes when the much-expected 94xx hits the shelves....

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Posted (edited)

Apropos the 94xx, Rails of Sheffield have it on preorder from £106.21, an odd price but probably a percentage of something, and a saving of £23.74, about enough for a basic Bachmann wagon, or 2 Oxfords 

 

I've pre-ordered, and must now disappoint Peter Lord.  But if Rails can make a profit selling it at £106.21 (that's if Baccy will supply them of course), how much more is Baccy's markup?  What it costs is what it costs and firms are entitled to a fair return for their efforts, just as shareholders are for their risk, but if it can be successfully and profitably discounted to this extent, there are questions raised as to how much Baccy are honest traders and how much they are profiteering bar stewards.  And there is no reason to assume that they are better or worse than anyone else...

Edited by The Johnster

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19 hours ago, TomScrut said:

...Then there is also the constant churning out of the same old stuff in general. I aren't suggesting they are idiots, they should know the market better than anyone, but is there a struggle as was mentioned by @34theletterbetweenB&D to feed a monster and therefore a massive range of stuff is needed every year?

Don't forget, there are multiple players in the 'what gets produced' process, for an operation such as Kader with multiple brands serving many different markets.

 

The retailers are the brand's customers, and it is they who know their market. A brand office puts out a list of proposals, and the combined orders of the retailers determine what can be produced in viable volume on the manufacturing plant.

 

Those order inputs will be  handled by a planning group at the manufacturing operation. They have the task of keeping the manufacturing operation 'monster' fully loaded with the most profitable product. If it is anything like what I have known from inside the belly of such multinational beasts, there's a lot of pushing and shoving by the brand managers to get 'their' product lines the best slots for fulfilment of their market's demands and spending habits. Generally, those that can offer the larger volumes with the higher returns get the slots and attention they want. The smaller brands basically take what they can get, often 'fitted in' where there is slack.

 

From retailers who know that they can always shift a few steam era wagons to their regular customers, and manufacturing operations that can always use some relatively simple product in modest volume to keep production units fully loaded, there's a recipe for a certain class of product getting favoured.

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22 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

The retailers are the brand's customers, and it is they who know their market.

 

Exactly, and it would seem that the companies who are selling direct, or at least have that as their primary outlet, are going about it a completely different way!

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