First Class Coaches

[MDP78]

I apologise in advance for a coach formation post, however I would do with some advice about finding a possible use for a pair of First Class coaches I have.

 

To put this into context, my layout is loosely based on Ellesmere around 1958-1962.  I have been kindly provided with a copy of the Central Wales District, Working of Coaches, Rail Motors and Auto Cars from the summer of 1954.  Using this and my June 1959 Working Timetable I will be able to use the crimson and cream and maroon Collect and Hawkworth Composite and Thirds and the maroon Stanier Thirds I have to make up some reasonably accurate sets for local workings and Whitchurch to Aberystwyth workings.  However I am a little unsure about what to do with the Hawksworth First and a Stanier First (both maroon, or should that be marooned?!) that I have.

 

I know that on summer Saturdays, the Whitchurch - Welshpool route was used by a Manchester to Aberystwyth service.  From the various pictures in books I have seen, this would appear to be made up of predominately if not exclusively LMR stock - so the Stanier 3rd would certainly be at home on that in addition to on local workings.  However I don't know if recreating a set to represent this service would be a plausible home for the Stanier First.

 

Because my layout is only loosely based on Whitchurch - Welshpool I am open to the idea of running other through workings, or even a portion of a through working on its way to/from a larger station where a through working joins or is split, particularly if I could base them on working found on parts of the Central Wales district/Cambrian network.  One obvious example is the Cambrian Coast Express and I am aware that both portions included First Class coaches. 

 

One other possible example is a Paddington to Pwllheli working that used to reverse at Ruabon and traverse the Ruabon-Barmouth line, although I have no idea if that would have included one (or more) First Class coaches.  

 

In the era I am modelling most of the Cambrian Coast Express services seem to be almost exclusively BR Mk1s (I actually had a set of 5 Bachmann Mk1s in chocolate and cream that I sold a few years back...!!) and I assume the Paddington-Pwllheli may well have also been mostly Mk1s by then.  However is it plausible that a First Class Hawksworth or Stanier (or both!) could find themselves onto such workings?

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by MDP78

[The Johnster]

Rule 1 is your friend here, MDP.  AFAIK the CCE reversed at Shrewsbury or used the avoiding triangle there, changing locos from King to Manor (later 52/47 to 75xxx).  It then ran via Sutton Bridge and Welshpool, avoiding Ruabon.  It then ran via Machynlleth and did not use the Ruabon-Barmouth route.  I would have thought that, apart from this named train with choc/cream mk1s, the normal fare on the Cambrian Section would have been GW designs and a few intruding Staniers, though by '62 the older Colletts would be getting a bit thin on the ground and a few mk1s in lined maroon would be on the scene.  All firsts are a bit problematic as you've realised, and are really more at home on full on main line expresses than Cambrian section stoppers, but a Summer Saturday or bank holiday weekend might see all sorts of things you wouldn't see on a winter weekday. 

 

Blood and Custard livery, and plain Crimson for non-gangwayed stock, would be still common in '58, running alongside lined maroon, and plain maroon for non gangwayed.  Lined maroon was used for non-gangwayed stock from '59.  Older liveries took several years to be eradicated by repaints, and you loco liveries can exhibit a similar biodiversity!  A Hawksworth all first is too modern to be downgraded to 2nd class usage.

[Steamport Southport]

Ruabon to Barmouth line would have had everything running on it from single autotrailers to 14 or more coach trains. Look at the platform lengths at Llangollen built for long holiday trains.

 

You need a few dozen Gresley and Thompson coaches as well. Loads of photographs of them on through trains from places like Yorkshire.

 

 

 

Jason

[MDP78]

38 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Rule 1 is your friend here, MDP.  AFAIK the CCE reversed at Shrewsbury or used the avoiding triangle there, changing locos from King to Manor (later 52/47 to 75xxx).  It then ran via Sutton Bridge and Welshpool, avoiding Ruabon.  It then ran via Machynlleth and did not use the Ruabon-Barmouth route.  I would have thought that, apart from this named train with choc/cream mk1s, the normal fare on the Cambrian Section would have been GW designs and a few intruding Staniers, though by '62 the older Colletts would be getting a bit thin on the ground and a few mk1s in lined maroon would be on the scene.  All firsts are a bit problematic as you've realised, and are really more at home on full on main line expresses than Cambrian section stoppers, but a Summer Saturday or bank holiday weekend might see all sorts of things you wouldn't see on a winter weekday. 

 

Blood and Custard livery, and plain Crimson for non-gangwayed stock, would be still common in '58, running alongside lined maroon, and plain maroon for non gangwayed.  Lined maroon was used for non-gangwayed stock from '59.  Older liveries took several years to be eradicated by repaints, and you loco liveries can exhibit a similar biodiversity!  A Hawksworth all first is too modern to be downgraded to 2nd class usage.

 

The Johnster, thanks for the reply.  Yes, I know the CCE ran view Shrewsbury, Welshpool and Machynlleth and split with a portion going on to  Pwllheli.  However Pwllheli also had a through working from Paddington that ran via the Ruabon to Barmouth line and reversed at Ruabon.  It is shown in the 15th June - 13th September timetable and ran on summer Saturdays only.  Left Paddington at 9am, Ruabon at 13,13.  There was also a Birmingham-Pwllehli via Ruabon as well, leaving Ruabon at 13.00, also summer Saturday only.  Both are Class A in the timetable.

 

As these weren't names trains, I am guessing they wouldn't necessarily have all been choc and cream or maroon Mk1s, at least not in the late 50s - pictures of Ruabon to Barmouth seem to suggest Mk1s werent much more common right up until closure than on it that Whitchurch to Welshpool.  As has been pointed out, lots of mixed stock ran over Ruabon to Barmouth, but Im unsure if the trains would have ever included a First - regardless of the region of origin!  

 

If I can't find a fictitious  yet plausible use for them I'll just need to part-ex for some more Thirds and Composites.  

[The Johnster]

My feeling, and I‘m sure someone with greater erudition in these matters will correct me otherwise, is the the bulk of local traffic would contain first class in composites or brake composites.  On the basis that it is best to concentrate on these before the less often seen ‘weekend‘ items, my advice FWIW is to hang on to your Hawksworth FK while you build up your ‘essential’ local stock, then bring it into play for through trains from Paddington, where a full first is probable for the
Birmingham/Wolverhamton punters.  The Stanier can originate from the Manchester or even Leeds area, and LNER stock from further afield as well as Jason suggests.  Holiday traffic and the International Eisteddfod at Llangollen attracted excursions from far and wide, and the Eisteddfod would attract 1st class punters enough to justify an all first as well as composites; It had gained a fairly wide reputation by the late 50s. 
 

The Summer Saturday Birmingham train will probably have a full first as well.  It is likely to be a Tyseley set used for other work in the week, a Snow Hill-Cardiff or Bristol perhaps.  These had buffet cars.  

 

 

 

[chrisf]

How about downgrading the first using window labels proclaiming "For use of second class passengers"?   To have legible labels in 4mm would be challenging ...

 

Chris