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jools1959

GWR 150 Celebration DMU’s

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I’ve posted something similar on the the Heljan thread but I had no replies there, so I thought I’d try here.  I’ve pre-ordered a Heljan O gauge Class 121, 55020 in GWR 150 celebration livery and I want to get a Class 149 DTS to go with it.

 

I don’t think that a DTS was never painted into the 150 livery to go with 55020 but I’m unsure which of the later liveries to get.  Would I be better in getting the blue/grey version or did 55020 stay in it’s unique livery into the NSE era, therefore get the revised NSE version.  I hope this all makes sense and all sensible replies are welcome.

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55020 was repainted in NSE in September 1987 during a visit to Doncaster. If I recall correctly, the few remaining DTS were repainted in NSE after that so blue/grey would be the better choice.

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10 hours ago, Simon Bendall said:

55020 was repainted in NSE in September 1987 during a visit to Doncaster. If I recall correctly, the few remaining DTS were repainted in NSE after that so blue/grey would be the better choice.


I think your right about the blue/grey as I was unsure how long 55020 remained in the GWR 150 livery.  Thanks for the info 

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The most well know one was B430, later T305, then 117 305.

 

Seen it around Gloucester, Worcester and Cornwall.

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59 minutes ago, MJI said:

The most well know one was B430, later T305, then 117 305.

 

Seen it around Gloucester, Worcester and Cornwall.

I'm not saying it didn't reach Cornwall but it would have been rare down there, I saw it quite a lot around Bristol and surrounding areas. On the other hand, the Class 118 in yellow British Telecom "Busby" advert P460 is one I would like a model of!

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1 hour ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

I'm not saying it didn't reach Cornwall but it would have been rare down there, I saw it quite a lot around Bristol and surrounding areas. On the other hand, the Class 118 in yellow British Telecom "Busby" advert P460 is one I would like a model of!

 

Just saying where I saw the GWR150 DMU, last time was a ride along the Looe branch in 1994.

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1 hour ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

I'm not saying it didn't reach Cornwall but it would have been rare down there, I saw it quite a lot around Bristol and surrounding areas. On the other hand, the Class 118 in yellow British Telecom "Busby" advert P460 is one I would like a model of!

 

This was of course a Class 117 so not strictly on topic, but certainly connected to it. It did a lot of work on the St Ives branch at the end of heritage DMU operations and I recommend checking out the collection of St Ives branch images on the Cornwall Railway Society website where the unit can be seen working in triple, double and single form coupled to, and even within, all manner of other NSE-liveried units, including two DMBS vehicles coupled back-to-back (shades of Lima!)

I'm not aware of 55020 getting anywhere near Cornwall during its short time in choc/cream livery, although it is now happily preserved on the Bodmin & Wenford Railway and surely when a repaint becomes necessary......:good_mini:

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3 hours ago, MJI said:

 

Just saying where I saw the GWR150 DMU, last time was a ride along the Looe branch in 1994.

Did it ever reach Penzance or work the St Ives branch? I'd not considered it as "within scope" for my West Cornwall collection as I remember it as a Bristol area stalwart until it dropped off my radar. 1994 feels like it would have been too late for regular heritage DMU operation on the Western Region (Cardiff Bay shuttle/Chiltern not withstanding), I thought they had been killed off before then.

 

I'm now going to ask a simple question from a simple person, please be gentle with replies. What is the difference between a 117 and 118, and what would I have to do to a 117 model if I wanted a 118?

 

 

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9 hours ago, MJI said:

The most well know one was B430, later T305, then 117 305.

 

Seen it around Gloucester, Worcester and Cornwall.

 

My first ride on it in choc/cream was the morning of 31/8/85, from Highbridge to Taunton.

 

I'm usually awful with remembering dates, but a quick google (other options etc) reminded me that it was the date of the 1985 Speedway Individual World final @ Odsal!

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2 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

I'm now going to ask a simple question from a simple person, please be gentle with replies. What is the difference between a 117 and 118, and what would I have to do to a 117 model if I wanted a 118?

 

 


Apart from different builders (117 Pressed Steel and 118 by BRCW) I’m pretty sure there’s not a lot of differences between the two but I’m sure someone more well informed can tell the differences.

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6 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Did it ever reach Penzance or work the St Ives branch? I'd not considered it as "within scope" for my West Cornwall collection as I remember it as a Bristol area stalwart until it dropped off my radar. 1994 feels like it would have been too late for regular heritage DMU operation on the Western Region (Cardiff Bay shuttle/Chiltern not withstanding), I thought they had been killed off before then.

 

I'm now going to ask a simple question from a simple person, please be gentle with replies. What is the difference between a 117 and 118, and what would I have to do to a 117 model if I wanted a 118?

 

 

 

The shape of the headcode box

 

 

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12 hours ago, MJI said:

 

The shape of the headcode box

 

 

And that was all? I'd looked and cannot see any difference in the window/door layout on the bodyside. Possible project then if I can re-draw the Telecom graphics and modify a Class 117 into a Class 118, just need half a gallon of yellow paint and a three car Class 117!!

 

Back to B430/117305 - this has got me to thinking I could save £300 and hack about with my old Lima Class 117 to make it into a two-car (with one guards van, hence the sacrifice and resulting loss of the middle car!) and spray that chocolate and cream as I've found pictures of 117305 running as a two car on the St Ives branch in '94. The Kernow special edition of B430 is wrong for my era anyhow, the silver roofs had been painted dark grey, bits of black had been added around the cab windows and the set number changed by the time it hit Cornwall- or maybe Kernow have a second run reflecting its later Cornish appearance in mind?

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1 hour ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

And that was all? I'd looked and cannot see any difference in the window/door layout on the bodyside. Possible project then if I can re-draw the Telecom graphics and modify a Class 117 into a Class 118, just need half a gallon of yellow paint and a three car Class 117!!

 

Back to B430/117305 - this has got me to thinking I could save £300 and hack about with my old Lima Class 117 to make it into a two-car (with one guards van, hence the sacrifice and resulting loss of the middle car!) and spray that chocolate and cream as I've found pictures of 117305 running as a two car on the St Ives branch in '94. The Kernow special edition of B430 is wrong for my era anyhow, the silver roofs had been painted dark grey, bits of black had been added around the cab windows and the set number changed by the time it hit Cornwall- or maybe Kernow have a second run reflecting its later Cornish appearance in mind?

 

 

Lima models

 

Headcode both it not really 117 or 118, too small for 117 and too flat for 118 get your plastic card out!

 

As to DMS the profiles are different between trailer and motor cars, cheapest fix is Silver Fox resin sections, 4 of my Limas have these.

 

 

Now GWR150 set

Rode as B430 in 85 or 86

 

I rode in 117 305 in 1994 and we were in the TCL on the Looe branch.

 

Just done some digging

1960-1 RDG318

1968 465 S315

1969 RDG 465

1972 L465

1976-81 L430

1982-1986 B430 repainted early 1985

1988  T305

1993 117 305

1994 was in Cornwall

1996 withdrawn I think

Reserved for SBR

2010 paint vandalised - and I told the owners they had!

 

Tyseley did a repaint red buffer beams and slightly different cab paint. Original scheme had white roof, same as the Mark 1 set, Tyseley painted it grey.

 

My only video footage is it crossing the Severn in Worcester and my 1985 picture was in B&W

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The Class 117 set, B430 was outshopped from Swindon in the pseudo GWR livery (really, more like the Western Region chocolate and cream as used on Mark 1 stock in the 1950s) in May 1985. As a celebrity unit, no doubt it was shipped around the Western Region to attend special events as required, including Devon and Cornwall by the sound of it. 

In the great clear-out of WR Suburban DMUs, it moved to Tyseley in January 1988, and in Spring 1988 I noted it in service exactly as it had been on the WR, except with the First Class "1" window stickers removed. 

By May 1990, it had gained "T305" set numbers on the cab ends, but still had full yellow cab ends. The centre car had an accident that damaged one bodyside in the latter part of 1989, and was outshopped from Doncaster works following repair in October 1989. The undamaged side retained the circular BR crest and the yellow band over the (former) First Class section. The damaged and repaired side was in "full" Great Western livery, with GREAT (crests) WESTERN on the side of the lavatory, the car number in GW style, with no "W" prefix, and the (former) First Class doors were labelled "FIRST" in GW style, though there was no yellow band at the top of the bodyside.

In May 1991, I saw the set and noted that the power cars were still in BR Mark 1 style chocolate and cream, the cab ends had been embellished with red buffer beams, white buffers and lamp irons, and still had full yellow cab ends and "T305" set numbers. The centre car was in GWR livery on both sides, with GREAT (crests) WESTERN on both sides of the lavatory area, GW style cream numbers, but no reference to First Class on the vehicle exterior.

The Regional Railways Class 117 facelift scheme began in 1991, and resulted in the facelifted sets receiving RR livery and 117301 series set numbers. By mid 1992, the former B430 had been through the scheme and been repainted in Chocolate and Cream, but in the facelift style, i.e. the yellow on the cab ends did not wrap all the way round to meet the edge of the cab door. Cab ends were yellow with the black panel around the windscreens, "117305" set number, high intensity headlamp, red buffer beam and white buffers. All vehicles were in 1950s style WR chocolate and cream, but unlike the 1985 livery application, the circular BR crests were only on the power cars and the trailer car had none. Vehicle numbers were not the 1950s style gold as in 1985, but corporate BR rail alphabet in (from what I can see) white.

The set moved to Laira as a three car in mid 1993, then on to Penzance May 1994. 

Records show the trailer car taken out of service late 1994, endorsed by images in 1995 of the power cars running as a twin set. The Motor Second vehicle 51410 suffered fire damage in October 1995, which effectively killed it, and the Motor Brake  was taken out of service some time thereafter, reaching Bletchley as a spares donor by 1999.

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Very detailed history, thanks. I hadn't noticed the significant difference in yellow application until you pointed it out. I wonder if Bachmann has the facility to graft a high intensity headlight onto the model to represent the later Regional Railways and 117305 in v2 chocolate and cream, the 1992 livery is quite different to the 1985 version an warrants a second release I think/hope...

 

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Interesting, fills in a bit more information for me.

 

First seen when still blue grey but seemed to live in Gloucester in 1985

 

1985 repaint used paint supplied by Precision Paints and the model paints were from the same batch, the style was at the time VERY similar to the GWR150 rake.

 

My last sighting of it was in 1994 on a holiday by train to Cornwall (was given tickets won in a competition as my car at the time had a blown rear diff*). We travelled on a few first generation but all rides on mainline were 158. Except 47 down and HST back.

 

* I had a spare axle with 85mph maximum off smallest engine version car, mine had second biggest engine. So avoided long trips until axle replaced.

 

My model is in 1985 condtion but the DMS section has broken away and the painting is poor.

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1 hour ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Very detailed history, thanks. I hadn't noticed the significant difference in yellow application until you pointed it out. I wonder if Bachmann has the facility to graft a high intensity headlight onto the model to represent the later Regional Railways and 117305 in v2 chocolate and cream, the 1992 livery is quite different to the 1985 version an warrants a second release I think/hope...

 

I would hope that the high intensity lamp is a possibility. Presumably another run in later condition would be down to those nice people at Kernow Model Centre?

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1 hour ago, MJI said:

1985 repaint used paint supplied by Precision Paints and the model paints were from the same batch, the style was at the time VERY similar to the GWR150 rake.

 

I suspect that the GW150 loco hauled rake was also based on the 1950s WR chocolate and cream livery. To state the obvious, GW chocolate and cream was not a livery used on BR DMUs until the GW150 units. Suddenly my mind is racing, trying to imagine Swindon Cross Country units in this livery style...

 

In May 1988, TS305 set was used on the Bedworth Boomerang special train, for the opening of Bedworth Station. For the tour, the First Class section was in use for VIPs and invited guests (including me). To make it a little more luxurious, I raided the stores at work for some Network South East First Class antimacassars that I attached to the comfy seats prior to the ECS move from Tyseley.

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1 hour ago, EddieK said:

I suspect that the GW150 loco hauled rake was also based on the 1950s WR chocolate and cream livery. To state the obvious, GW chocolate and cream was not a livery used on BR DMUs until the GW150 units. Suddenly my mind is racing, trying to imagine Swindon Cross Country units in this livery style...

 

In May 1988, TS305 set was used on the Bedworth Boomerang special train, for the opening of Bedworth Station. For the tour, the First Class section was in use for VIPs and invited guests (including me). To make it a little more luxurious, I raided the stores at work for some Network South East First Class antimacassars that I attached to the comfy seats prior to the ECS move from Tyseley.

 

Definately based on WR livery.

 

I saw it loads of times but lost my spotting info of the formation.

 

I KNOW I rode on 8 of them at one time or another, but 6 or 7 on the time I rode to Swindon and back.

 

Got the last 2 and first 2 Ok middle not sure of IDs

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That loco normally was grafittied up with Hercules!

 

And when was W34666 withdrawn? I don't remember seeing it post 85 and I got a video camera in 86 and no GWR set.

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On 27/05/2020 at 23:22, MJI said:

 

The shape of the headcode box

 

 

 

Mostly true, but as is so often the case with railway subjects, not entirely! While daily commuting on the WR for 4 months in 1984 I noticed that some 117s had 118-style curved-top headcode boxes. IIRC I managed to narrow it down to the first 6 sets, i.e. DMBS W51332-7 & DMS W51374-9. Stuart Mackay refers to this on page 64 of his book 'British Railway First Generation DMUs in Colour for the Modeller and Historian', with a photo of 51335 (L402) in NSE livery to back it up. These sets really were indistinguishable from Class 118.

 

On 27/05/2020 at 11:34, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

......the Class 118 in yellow British Telecom "Busby" advert P460 is one I would like a model of!

 

It has been done........by Ian Metcalfe, builder of the 4mm Cornish china clay layout Pengwynn Crossing, based on the inevitable Lima Class 117. An article on the layout, including a photo of the unit, appeared in BRM April 1995 (I had to pop into the loft to check that!) and I think it was featured in Railway Modeller before that. If I ever read somewhere how Ian recreated the BT livery over all those door hinges and handles I have long forgotten, but it was a great job!

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