Do I need a shunt signal for a ground frame operated siding?

[TravisM]

As some might know that I’m building a modern version of Elton station on the Peterborough to Northampton line had it not closed.  After looking at the track plan, the station had a siding to the west of it which I thought I could corporate.

 

I hopefully can explain all this.  The layout is single line and if a train was headed towards Northampton, there is a station MAS starter signal on the west end of the platform and then it crosses the level crossing with the points into the siding straight away, which are operated by a ground frame.

 

As the points are operated by ground staff who are also in contact with the signallers, do I need to have a shunt signal by the station starter and would I need either a proper signal or shunt signal to exit the siding?

 

I’ve attached some pictures so you have some idea what I’m blathering about.  Any help would be useful.

[PaulRhB]

2 hours ago, jools1959 said:

As the points are operated by ground staff who are also in contact with the signallers, do I need to have a shunt signal by the station starter and would I need either a proper signal or shunt signal to exit the siding?

Yes there would be an entrance, (prob next to the starter), and exit ground signal operated from the ground frame. I’d expect a four lever ground frame. 2 red signal levers, 1 blue/brown release and 1 black crossover points lever. 

[TravisM]

3 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Yes there would be an entrance, (prob next to the starter), and exit ground signal operated from the ground frame. I’d expect a four lever ground frame. 2 red signal levers, 1 blue/brown release and 1 black crossover points lever. 

Thank you for that but can I ask, would they be manual disc or electric?  I assume manual with the use of a ground frame.

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, jools1959 said:

Thank you for that but can I ask, would they be manual disc or electric?  I assume manual with the use of a ground frame.

They can be either. Something modernised as part of a re-signalling might have lights. Our panel is from 1981 and one groundframe has colour light ground signals for the regularly used quarry but discs for the crossover & quarry that only saw occasional use. I’m not sure of the reason but I suspect it was the frequency of use. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by PaulRhB

[RailWest]

14 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Yes there would be an entrance, (prob next to the starter), and exit ground signal operated from the ground frame. I’d expect a four lever ground frame. 2 red signal levers, 1 blue/brown release and 1 black crossover points lever. 

Is this going to be a mechanical ground-frame with rod-worked points or a ground switch panel with motor worked points? If the former then you would also need a blue FPL lever (unless that doubled-up at the release lever as well).

[PaulRhB]

28 minutes ago, RailWest said:

Is this going to be a mechanical ground-frame with rod-worked points or a ground switch panel with motor worked points? If the former then you would also need a blue FPL lever (unless that doubled-up at the release lever as well).

I’d put a combined blue/brown as the release as we have them round here. The local principle might be different

Something like the 4 levers at the right end.

This controls a crossover and a siding into the quarry. No.3 signal protects both. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by PaulRhB

[TravisM]

It will be a mechanical ground frame and I’ve decided to install mechanical ground signals and point rod working.  Just more modelling interest.