The Night Mail

[J. S. Bach]

7 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

Morning all,

We arrived safely back in Tulsa last night at about 10:30 at night, and were home by 11:00. Now I’m back home, I can set about deciding what I wish to continue modeling. 
Currently I have 3 options:

2. Start modeling the Milwaukee road or the BNSF around Tulsa as I remember it in around 2010. (Lots of SD40-2s) Relatively costly.

If you all have any advice it is most welcome.

Douglas

I would choose #2; plenty of stuff available on the used market with decent pricing and in the US. No international shipping or possible customs charges involved. I will admit, though, that the few items that I have gotten from the UK have all arrived in a timely manor and did not have a customs charge applied.

[jamie92208]

I can't really make a suggestion Douglas, there are pros and cons to all three. I think that there are 2 factors that you need to factor in.  Firstly as Dave has mentioned above you want something that gives you the satisfaction of using your engineering and modelling skills, and secondly one that you'llbe able to continue with as you progress through the rest of your education.  

 

Jamie

[Happy Hippo]

Extracted from the Daily Mail this morning:

 

Royal hair force! RAF will allow ponytails, buns, cornrows and plaits for the first time under new rules

Women can now wear hair in a ponytail, plait or cornrows while serving in RAF

It comes after the RAF's dress code was relaxed from a hair tied back only policy

In October last year the policy was relaxed to allow cornrows, twists and braids

Move to reflect RAF diversity while keeping 'excellent appearance standards'

In 2019, the RAF allowed bears, but they must be short and neatly trimmed 

By ARCHIE MITCHELL FOR THE DAILY MAIL

 

I have underlined something I never knew before!

[polybear]

22 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

In 2019, the RAF allowed bears, but they must be short and neatly trimmed 

 

Polybear qualifies as RAF's very first Fighter Pilot......

Look out, Captain Cynical.....here I come......

[Happy Hippo]

Douglas,

 

I have now put a little bit of sensible thought about your modelling dilemma.

 

One of the problems we face as railway modellers  is diversity, and those who operate in multiple scales and gauges do have to plan carefully as we will soon run out of both space and cash, usually in quite short order.  I speak from bitter experience on the former, and modelling in 7 mm scale as well as live steam  in the garden concentrates the mind on the latter.  Mistakes can be costly and lead to endless frustration if one is not very careful.

 

As you know from the chat on this thread, I'm currently without a garden line, and am axing both my partially built 7 mm scale lines in order to captialize on the experiences I gained in creating the first two.  

 

I have long been an advocate of the less is more school of railway modelling and usually come up with a track plan that is tweaked, pulled shoved and stretched, but almost invariably reverts back to what I started with.  But planning is the key, not just with the track plan, but what your long term goals are as far as your modelling is concerned.

 

In theory, there is nothing to stop you modelling in multiple scales, gauges and types of propulsion, but practically the cash/space issue will eventually cause you to re-evaluate what you want to achieve.

 

My suggestion is to keep your vintage live steam and clockwork on the back burner.

 

I would do the same with any aspirations of a major US flag in HO.

 

Build small but plan big!

 

Building a segment of a US short line that will one day connect to your larger empire would be a good start as it would allow you short trains, small locos, limited scenery and a manageable project on which to improve your skills.  When the time is right it can be incorporated into your larger scheme of things.  It's also a lot cheaper than buying a fleet of large 6 axle locos and a couple of trains of 40-50 cars long!

 

If in the meantime you see a particular piece for the vintage side, there is no reason, funds permitting, that you cannot  add it  your collection.

 

One thing I do know if you are anything like me, is you'll never finish, be totally satisfied and will always want just a little bit more.

 

That's what makes the hobby what it is.

 

 

 

 

[Northroader]

The one thing which interests me, Douglas, is your willingness to consider HO/OO and O scales, rather than settle on one or the other? 

[Dave Hunt]

A friend has just sent me this photograph taken at Perth. It is:

 

a. Something to give a present day H&S person a heart attack.

b. Something for the 'prototype for anything' album.

c. A method of coaling a tender that I have never seen before - and never expected to see.

d. Interesting to speculate as to why it was being done anyway.

 

 

 

Dave

[jamie92208]

28 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

A friend has just sent me this photograph taken at Perth. It is:

 

a. Something to give a present day H&S person a heart attack.

b. Something for the 'prototype for anything' album.

c. A method of coaling a tender that I have never seen before - and never expected to see.

d. Interesting to speculate as to why it was being done anyway.

 

 

 

Dave

I suspect that the coaling tower had jammed but the show had to go on.  I like their style.  I wonder who drew the short straw to be the guy in the wagon. I think that you can see hiscrear end, bent over in the wagon doorway. Looks like a job for a sprog or someone  who had upset the shedmaster.

 

Jamie

Edited August 3, 2021 by jamie92208

[Compound2632]

Is 46234 standing in for a failed diesel, after the supposed elimination of steam in NE Scotland and just two days after the coaling plant had been demolished?

[Florence Locomotive Works]

7 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

I can't really make a suggestion Douglas, there are pros and cons to all three. I think that there are 2 factors that you need to factor in.  Firstly as Dave has mentioned above you want something that gives you the satisfaction of using your engineering and modelling skills, and secondly one that you'llbe able to continue with as you progress through the rest of your education.  

 

Jamie

Yes I was worried about scaling down from O and not being able to use my collection of tool and such.

 

13 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

I would choose #2; plenty of stuff available on the used market with decent pricing and in the US. No international shipping or possible customs charges involved. I will admit, though, that the few items that I have gotten from the UK have all arrived in a timely manor and did not have a customs charge applied.

I agree Dave, I to have never had any customs charges. 
 

6 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Douglas,

 

I have now put a little bit of sensible thought about your modelling dilemma.

 

One of the problems we face as railway modellers  is diversity, and those who operate in multiple scales and gauges do have to plan carefully as we will soon run out of both space and cash, usually in quite short order.  I speak from bitter experience on the former, and modelling in 7 mm scale as well as live steam  in the garden concentrates the mind on the latter.  Mistakes can be costly and lead to endless frustration if one is not very careful.

 

As you know from the chat on this thread, I'm currently without a garden line, and am axing both my partially built 7 mm scale lines in order to captialize on the experiences I gained in creating the first two.  

 

I have long been an advocate of the less is more school of railway modelling and usually come up with a track plan that is tweaked, pulled shoved and stretched, but almost invariably reverts back to what I started with.  But planning is the key, not just with the track plan, but what your long term goals are as far as your modelling is concerned.

 

In theory, there is nothing to stop you modelling in multiple scales, gauges and types of propulsion, but practically the cash/space issue will eventually cause you to re-evaluate what you want to achieve.

 

My suggestion is to keep your vintage live steam and clockwork on the back burner.

 

I would do the same with any aspirations of a major US flag in HO.

 

Build small but plan big!

 

Building a segment of a US short line that will one day connect to your larger empire would be a good start as it would allow you short trains, small locos, limited scenery and a manageable project on which to improve your skills.  When the time is right it can be incorporated into your larger scheme of things.  It's also a lot cheaper than buying a fleet of large 6 axle locos and a couple of trains of 40-50 cars long!

 

If in the meantime you see a particular piece for the vintage side, there is no reason, funds permitting, that you cannot  add it  your collection.

 

One thing I do know if you are anything like me, is you'll never finish, be totally satisfied and will always want just a little bit more.

 

That's what makes the hobby what it is.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes the US short line is looking more likely, but in N scale (oh no). If I am to model a USA road, than it will be the Milwaukee mainline going past substation 120 on its way in the East portal of the Taft Tunnel (as I cycled the route), which after some measuring I found to only be cost and size affective in N scale. But then again that’s yet another scale.

 

5 hours ago, Northroader said:

The one thing which interests me, Douglas, is your willingness to consider HO/OO and O scales, rather than settle on one or the other? 

Well it a a bit if a long story. I started off with an o gauge 3 rail Lionel roundy roundy, and at the age of 8 I didn’t quite know how a steam locomotive worked, so lost interest after a few months. Then about two years later we knew a man who had a large HO Marklin collection he wanted ridding of, so dad got me a double tracked roundy roundy, which I enjoyed for many years. But, as Marklin is 3 rail stud contact AC, it doesn’t have a terribly wide range of locos you can run on it. Which is why I bought a Hornby pannier, (is that the bear I hear scurrying) which led to my building various failed OO micro layouts. My return to O gauge was by accident when dad bought me the Mogul as a birthday present in 2019. The clockwork side came about when I thought the mogul was broken for good and bought a replacement engine, the GtV.

 

 

thank you all,

 

 

Douglas

Edited August 3, 2021 by Florence Locomotive Works

[Florence Locomotive Works]

There more or less two things I would very much like to continue with. (one of the two)

 

1. O or possibly G1 clockwork, as I quite like the look of them, and its the only way currently to get a rtr GtV or something similar. Live steam is pretty much out of the picture on ground of cost and mess, and maintenance. With clockwork I spend a few days a week in a room with every conceivable tool/part needed for such a thing, so I can make any repairs over my lunch break. I also said G1 clockwork as it would be easier to maintain than O, because Gauge 1 engines have cast iron wheels which can be easily removed to access the mechanism should that be required, and as the mechs are wider they should fit standard size clock springs. Here's what a Gauge 1 clocker looks like.

 

(https://traincollectors.co.uk/about-our-hobby/)

 

 

 

2. Doing a section of the Milwaukee Road St Paul pass in N scale. This would be a very easy endeavor, as I can use Kato Japanese National Railway boxcabs for the engines (nobody makes an affordable MILW in N scale) and the rolling stock is readily available. All I would have to worry about is the fact that I don't entirely enjoy scenic modelling, probably because I have been doing it in HO/P4 broad gauge where its a good bit more expensive. I can also somewhat relate to this railway, as I cycled the route, so although I haven't seen the trains, I've seen everything relating to them. To my great regret I have never seen a LNWR George the Fifth or Caledonian Dunalastair. Here what the seen would look like. (its now a parking lot and the building is just a slab)

 

(https://www.american-rails.com/st-paul.html)

 

 

The absolute ideal situation here would be my finding a gauge 2 or 3 Bing for Bassett Lowke live steam LNWR jubilee class on the cheap, however that seems more unlikely than Dave Hunt wearing a Churchward safety valve cover as a hat.

 

 

Douglas

 

[jamie92208]

15 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

There more or less two things I would very much like to continue with. (one of the two)

 

1. O or possibly G1 clockwork, as I quite like the look of them, and its the only way currently to get a rtr GtV or something similar. Live steam is pretty much out of the picture on ground of cost and mess, and maintenance. With clockwork I spend a few days a week in a room with every conceivable tool/part needed for such a thing, so I can make any repairs over my lunch break. I also said G1 clockwork as it would be easier to maintain than O, because Gauge 1 engines have cast iron wheels which can be easily removed to access the mechanism should that be required, and as the mechs are wider they should fit standard size clock springs. Here's what a Gauge 1 clocker looks like.

 

(https://traincollectors.co.uk/about-our-hobby/)

 

 

 

2. Doing a section of the Milwaukee Road St Paul pass in N scale. This would be a very easy endeavor, as I can use Kato Japanese National Railway boxcabs for the engines (nobody makes an affordable MILW in N scale) and the rolling stock is readily available. All I would have to worry about is the fact that I don't entirely enjoy scenic modelling, probably because I have been doing it in HO/P4 broad gauge where its a good bit more expensive. I can also somewhat relate to this railway, as I cycled the route, so although I haven't seen the trains, I've seen everything relating to them. To my great regret I have never seen a LNWR George the Fifth or Caledonian Dunalastair. Here what the seen would look like. (its now a parking lot and the building is just a slab)

 

(https://www.american-rails.com/st-paul.html)

 

 

The absolute ideal situation here would be my finding a gauge 2 or 3 Bing for Bassett Lowke live steam LNWR jubilee class on the cheap, however that seems more unlikely than Dave Hunt wearing a Churchward safety valve cover as a hat.

 

 

Douglas

 

Sunset are doing an EP3 in O scale, it looks very very tempting.

 

Jamie

Edited August 4, 2021 by jamie92208

[Happy Hippo]

6 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

A friend has just sent me this photograph taken at Perth. It is:

 

a. Something to give a present day H&S person a heart attack.

b. Something for the 'prototype for anything' album.

c. A method of coaling a tender that I have never seen before - and never expected to see.

d. Interesting to speculate as to why it was being done anyway.

 

 

 

Dave

That's not any old April Fool's joke... That's a BR(M) April Fool's joke

[J. S. Bach]

7 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Sunset are doing an EP3 in O scale, it looks very very tempting.

 

Jamie

I have seen it but prefer the New Haven EP-3:

 

 

Note that this Parmelee & Sturgis/Baldwin Model Locomotive Works beast weighs in at over ten pounds and will pull the plumbing right out of the station.

 

[Florence Locomotive Works]

58 minutes ago, J. S. Bach said:

I have seen it but prefer the New Haven EP-3:

 

 

Note that this Parmelee & Sturgis/Baldwin Model Locomotive Works beast weighs in at over ten pounds and will pull the plumbing right out of the station.

 

How many decibels?

 

(and amps for that matter)

[J. S. Bach]

38 minutes ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

How many decibels?

 

(and amps for that matter)

Decibels? It is a straight electric so it should be nice and quiet. Although the gear train may sing a nice tune.

 

Amperes? It has a pair of what look like K&D #1 universal (wound-field) motors so I am guessing about ten amps on a cold start and less than five running.

 

BTW, that black wire around the body was just to hold the lid on for shipping as it is completely removeable.

Edited August 4, 2021 by J. S. Bach
To add some information.

[pH]

16 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

A friend has just sent me this photograph taken at Perth. It is:

 

a. Something to give a present day H&S person a heart attack.

b. Something for the 'prototype for anything' album.

c. A method of coaling a tender that I have never seen before - and never expected to see.

d. Interesting to speculate as to why it was being done anyway.

 

 

 

Dave

 

 

That picture has been posted on here before, and possible reasons for the situation discussed:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/36891-16t-minerals/&do=findComment&comment=2410383

 

[polybear]

3 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

Amperes? It has a pair of what look like K&D #1 universal (wound-field) motors so I am guessing about ten amps on a cold start and less than five running.

 

Momma FLW:

"FLORENCE..... ......why has the TV just gone off in the middle of my favourite show??  You runnin' THAT Loco again??

[Dave Hunt]

That looks to me like someone's entry for the ugliest electric locomotive contest - with a fair chance of winning. Ten amps on starting and five when running? Bl**dy h**l, I don't think that my entire O gauge locomotive stud (eleven) would pull anywhere near ten amps if starting simultaneously!

 

Dave

[Happy Hippo]

Telfland is a bit like a ghost town this morning.

 

There was more traffic going down the road that leads to our lane than on the A442!

 

After yesterday's hedge trimming extravaganza, it's time to get onto more mundane work around the place:  tidying and cleaning.

 

If only I was tidier and less messy, it would be so much easier (and quicker).

[J. S. Bach]

5 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

That looks to me like someone's entry for the ugliest electric locomotive contest - with a fair chance of winning. Ten amps on starting and five when running? Bl**dy h**l, I don't think that my entire O gauge locomotive stud (eleven) would pull anywhere near ten amps if starting simultaneously!

 

Dave

The late Leo Hall had an A-A set of cast bronze/brass Central Locomotive Works Alco PAs that had four K&D #3s; on a cold start it would slam a twenty amp meter on the peg! it ran around seven or so once warmed up. Note that the circuit breaker had to be held closed for a few seconds on initial start. These (and my EP-3) were built in the early 1950s and the pre-war technology was still prevalent; along with a lot of war surplus electrical parts. The relays for the newer part of the signal system were surplus B-29 relays; the older part used surplus B&O RR signal relays.

Edited August 4, 2021 by J. S. Bach
To correct a spelling error.

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, J. S. Bach said:

The late Leo Hall had an A-A set of cast bronze/brass Central Locomotive Works Alco PAs that had four K&D #3s; on a cold start it would slam a twenty amp meter on the peg! it ran around seven or so once warmed up. Note that the circuit breaker had to be held closed for a few seconds on initial start. These (and my EP-3) were built in the early 1950s and the pre-war technology was still prevalent; along with a lot of war surplus electrical parts. The relays for the newer part of the signal system were surplus B-29 relays; the older part used surplus B&) RR signal relays.

When my father built my first two rail layout with cab control, he used what I believe to be the bomb arming switches from a Lancaster to provide each controller with 8 on/off sections. 

 

He also built a rather rudimentary television from a night fighter radar set.

[Florence Locomotive Works]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

night fighter radar set.

Lengthy but good name for a pub that.

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

Lengthy but good name for a pub that.

Twinned with that famous German bier kellar, the Achtung Mosquito!

[J. S. Bach]

Speaking of odd freight cars:

 

I got it at the San Antonio (actually looked at the Alamo but Fess Parker was not around! ) O Scale National Convention from someone who was making three-bay hoppers out of two Weaver two-bay PS-2 hoppers. I asked what did you do with the left over parts and he reached under the table and pulled this out. I asked if he would sell it. "No." Well, every time that I went by his table, I asked again. Late Sunday afternoon, he relented and I was able to buy it complete with trucks and couplers.

I now need to decide what reporting marks to put on it; probably a lease car with a private industry as leasor. Hmmm, "PETERS PLUTONIUM"; after all the car is heavy for its size.