Are these available in OO gauge?

[Phil Traxson]

The new one is being built by an independent group and will not be part of FR stock, or be used as a service engine on the FR. It is unlikely to reside at Boston Lodge either, space is already at a premium there. 

Edited October 2, 2020 by Phil Traxson

[mcowgill]

Some views of the survivors from 2013/14

 

Martin

 

[Phil Traxson]

The new one is being built by an independent group and will not be part of FR stock, or be used as a service engine on the FR. It is unlikely to reside at Boston Lodge either, space is already at a premium there.  This is what it may look like. Don't know what colour it is likely to be though. One of the replica team has recently ordered the last available kit I have. The kit is now withdrawn for possible updating for production using more recent methods and materials and will not be released under the Port Wynnstay Models banner.(time scale unknown so don't ask )   

Edited October 2, 2020 by Phil Traxson

[Il Grifone]

1' 11⅝" is 600mm

[PatB]

5 hours ago, mcowgill said:

Some views of the survivors from 2013/14

 

Martin

 

Pity the Faller stone paper they used on the building in the first shot is so massively over scale . 

[Phil Traxson]

45 minutes ago, PatB said:

Pity the Faller stone paper they used on the building in the first shot is so massively over scale . 

That was the original goods shed, and they didn't have JCB's etc to help them or for the the 2 storey building on the far left of the picture.

[Butler Henderson]

16 hours ago, Phil Traxson said:

The new one is being built by an independent group and will not be part of FR stock, or be used as a service engine on the FR.

Was not the same said of Palmerston?

[Phil Traxson]

1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said:

Was not the same said of Palmerston?

True , but Palmerston is heavy enough to pull the smallest of the service trains. 

[The Johnster]

On 02/10/2020 at 17:14, Phil Traxson said:

The new one is being built by an independent group and will not be part of FR stock, or be used as a service engine on the FR. It is unlikely to reside at Boston Lodge either, space is already at a premium there.  This is what it may look like. Don't know what colour it is likely to be though. One of the replica team has recently ordered the last available kit I have. The kit is now withdrawn for possible updating for production using more recent methods and materials and will not be released under the Port Wynnstay Models banner.(time scale unknown so don't ask )   

I believe this livery, the original FR scheme that Mountaineer was supplied in, was the only one used by any of the Englands prior to rebuilding as saddle tanks; it was also 'Little Wonder's' original livery. Assuming the purpose of the group building this loco is to recreate Mountaineer in it's original form, I would expect Mountaineer III to carry this livery.  Not sure it had 'chopper' couplings in the original form.

[Phil Traxson]

17 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I believe this livery, the original FR scheme that Mountaineer was supplied in, was the only one used by any of the Englands prior to rebuilding as saddle tanks; it was also 'Little Wonder's' original livery. Assuming the purpose of the group building this loco is to recreate Mountaineer in it's original form, I would expect Mountaineer III to carry this livery.  Not sure it had 'chopper' couplings in the original form.

It didn't have chopper couplings as built, the loop under the buffer on the model is just part of the builders model coupling. As a point of interest the Double Fairlies did not get fitted with chopper couplings until the preservation era, I'm not sure about the other loco's without getting out my reference books but I'm pretty sure it was also the case with them too. Couplings were  a hook and shackle from a cast loop on the underside of the buffer housing. FR couplings and what could couple to what and why could fill a small book even in the preservation era, compounded by imported wagons with "RAF" couplings and some dual coupling vehicles that acted as conversion vehicles. As a volunteer fireman for some years I was supposed to know chapter and verse of this as coupling up was part of the fireman's job, but if I got stuck I would refer to my copy of the rulebook.

For "England Engine" history the monumental tome "Little Giants" by Chris Jones and Peter Dennis has just about all that is known about them between its covers and glancing at the cover of my copy I see that the coupling is clearly illustrated in the cover photo. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Phil Traxson

[mcowgill]

17 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I believe this livery, the original FR scheme that Mountaineer was supplied in, was the only one used by any of the Englands prior to rebuilding as saddle tanks; it was also 'Little Wonder's' original livery. Assuming the purpose of the group building this loco is to recreate Mountaineer in it's original form, I would expect Mountaineer III to carry this livery.  Not sure it had 'chopper' couplings in the original form.

The likelihood is that the Small Englands were probably outshopped in George England's standard blue livery, the order from the FR didn't specify the livery and other manufacturers quotes received suggest that it was down to the supplier.    Jonathan Clay painting of Mountaineer in blue

 

The Large England locos (Welsh Pony & Little Giant) were delivered in 1867 carrying a lined green livery which became the standard for over ten years, this was also carried by the Fairlie locos from Little Wonder right through to Merddin Emrys outshopped in 1879.

 

It was only by the 1880s that the livery changed to the lined red now carried by most of the current FR Heritage fleet.   Mountaineer was withdrawn by 1879 so probably never made it into red.  

 

I'd recommend Little Giants by Chris Jones & Peter Dennis as a mine of fascinating information on all the pre-preservation FR locomotives. 

 

Martin

Edited October 5, 2020 by mcowgill

[Phil Traxson]

Further delving into the above mentioned book reveals what is known (or unknown) about the liveries on page 85. Put simply probably blue at first, then green (probable delivery colour on the two later "Large" England loco's and "Little Wonder) followed by red on repaints after about 1880.