Triang Hornby smoke element

[BernardTPM]

Yes, the Jinty had synchrosmoke along with magnadhesion and see-through wheels. It was my third loco, the first being a black 3MT 2-6-2T for Christmas 1959, the second the Double-ended Diesel probably in 1961 or '62.

Edited May 27, 2021 by BernardTPM

[GoingUnderground]

1 hour ago, BernardTPM said:

Yes, the Jinty had synchrosmoke along with magnadhesion and see-through wheels. It was my third loco, the first being a black 3MT 2-6-2T for Christmas 1959, the second the Double-ended Diesel probably in 1961 or '62.

Well, that proves to my satisfaction that:

a) I'm not going gaga and losing my memory just yet (though some/most/all * of you may think otherwise);

b) the Synchrosmoke locos did have glass funnels supplied to refill the Synchrosmoke units; and,

c) the plastic funnels came before the glass ones.

 

* Please edit/delete as applicable.

 

The dedicated model shops and service agents would probably have had a stock of glass funnels as they would be easy to break by accident, so it doesn't surprise me that there will have been some on hand, probably with a stock of synchrosmoke elements, as if you broke the funnel and couldn't easily refill the smoke unit, then the chances of the element burning out until you got a replacement funnel must have been quite high. The model shops and service agents may well have had a fair number of requests for a new funnel followed shortly afterwards by one for a new element.

 

My first loco was also the 3MT in 1959. It was in the R3.D set, also bought from Marshalls. We went to buy a passenger set, but they'd sold out, so we came away with the R3.D rather than leave empty handed.

 

 

[BernardTPM]

1 hour ago, GoingUnderground said:

My first loco was also the 3MT in 1959. It was in the R3.D set, also bought from Marshalls. We went to buy a passenger set, but they'd sold out, so we came away with the R3.D rather than leave empty handed.

Yours must be about the same age as mine, then. I did later get a second green one. Totally different chassis of course, synchro, mag, see-through wheels, fluted rods/valve gear, single orange lines - same number! It's the original one I kept/saved though.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Well, it seems that the glass pipettes did come later then...

 

The plastic funnels we have are an exact fit into the holes in most Synchrosmoke Units.

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

16 hours ago, Piston said:

My '66 Jinty in the 'Battlespace' train had a glass filling tube & smoke oil sachets. The glass was quite tough & never broke.

The Battlespace train had a rubber band powered glider on a ramp which was clipped on top of the Tri-ang long bolster wagon (aka V1 Doodlebug launch ramp). The glider flew off when the train hit some marker at the side of the track. Ebay has these Tri-ang brochures. It's amazing seeing the past again.

I wonder which creative mind dreamed up the Battlespace train. A track powered searchlight wagon was available. I had the tank transporter wagon with a tank on it with a missile launcher. Spring loaded missiles with lead weights in the nose.

They could be used to hit the circle on the side of the exploding ammunition car. This had a spring loaded 'mousetrap' inside which flew off the roof & sides plus a cap going off ! Impressive & great fun.

P.S. the Tri-ang Jinty body was removable by undoing a small screw & could be replaced by a Pannier Tank body which I did.

 

This post inspired me to create a separate post on Battlespace and the earlier military models made by Tri-ang Railways...

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Ruffnut Thorston
Typo

[sandwich station]

12 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

Well, it seems that the glass pipettes did come later then...

 

The plastic funnels we have are an exact fit into the holes in most Synchrosmoke Units.

 

 

I had LMS Princess Elizabeth and Jinty locos brand new in Triang Hornby boxes just before they became just Hornby and they both contained the plastic funnels.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Here is a thought. 

 

Tri-ang marketed the Lionel Science Kits for a period around 1963.

 

I wonder if any of these sets included glass pipettes?

 

Possibly a source, as the sets didn’t sell very well, and maybe it was a way of using up the stock?

 

This would be around 1963-4, when Synchrosmoke units were being introduced...

 

Whatever, I am certain that later, certainly the 1970s,  Synchrosmoke fitted locos came with plastic funnels.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Ruffnut Thorston
Image added

[GoingUnderground]

2 hours ago, Piston said:

Yes, I've seen it. Fascinating. 

I had the helicopter car. The clockwork round base was wound up like a watch.

The mounted helicopter flew up when a trackside 'marker' was hit (can't remember what form the 'marker' took).

The graphics got better & better.

Some of it seems based on US atomic experiments with a local battlefield 'Atomic Annie' cannon.

Do people model military trains whether prototypical, or fantasy ?

It would be an interesting challenge to make the wagons functional especially in outdoor Gauge 1 - & make an interesting guest train on guest days on others tracks.

 

Back in Super 4 days, the helicopter car marker was a clipfit accessory comprising a 2 pronged base which slotted between the rails with a hinged square projection about half and inch high. It was hinged through 90 degrees so that when vertical the helicopter was launched by the pin pushing home a spring loaded finger that projected out from one the side of the wagon, or it it could be laid flat parallel to the track so that the wagon could pass without triggering the launch of the helicopter.

 

As regards modelling military trains, I think there might have been such a layout at Warley in 2018 to coincide with 100 years after the end of WW1.  But I might be wrong.

[BernardTPM]

3 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

Tri-ang marketed the Lionel Science Kits for a period around 1963.

I had the Gutenberg printing set. Most parts in that set was plastic. Not sure if it survived the move.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The trackside trip that launched the helicopter, and the satellite, was the same one that also launched the ‘plane, and I believe operated the “Q Car” deploying the missile  launcher.

 

 

I have not so far seen a System 6 version...

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Ruffnut Thorston
Typo

[sandwich station]

2 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

I have not so far seen a System 6 version...

 

The catalogue used to tell you that the clip fit accessories were only suitable for Super 4.

[GoingUnderground]

10 hours ago, sandwich station said:

 

The catalogue used to tell you that the clip fit accessories were only suitable for Super 4.

 

 

That's true for the BattleSpace Clip Fit items on Page 25 of the 1970 catalogue. My guess is that the necessary Clip Fit parts for System 6 for some of them were not made because Rovex had no intention of rerunning them once the existing stock had sold through and the quantities on hand didn't justify the expense of new tooling for the Clip Fit base.

 

System 6 did get Clip Fit as shown below.

 

 

Many Clip Fit accessories were modified for both Super 4 and System 6 and got a U suffix such as the catenary masts and gantries. Others got an M suffix such as the two colour light signals R.405 (once RT.405) became R.405M and R.573 became R.573M and were only for use with System 6 track.

 

The BR Operating Mail Coach Set also got an M suffix, so, in theory the BattleSpace Comand Car R.725 could have been used with System 6 track as the mechanism in the former Transcontinental coach was same as that used in the BR Mail Coach. But the quantities in the warehouse of the Command Car probably didn't justify the cost of replacing the Super 4 items with their System 6 equivalents.

[sandwich station]

13 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

System 6 did get Clip Fit as shown below.

 

Yes I know that but Ruffnut Thorston was specifically talking about what She showed in the picture.

[sandwich station]

On 26/05/2021 at 18:17, Ruffnut Thorston said:

 

 

 

I've just been looking at the funnels I have and have found that the coloured ones are infact longer than the black ones, meaning that the mold had been altered for the later releases. Maybe the black funnel did not fit in the hole of the synchrosmoke unit and just maybe that was why the glass tube was used as a stop gap, or was found to be unsuitable.

If you look at Ruffnut Thorston's picture, you can see there is a step towards the bottom of the funnel pipe where they have been extended.

 

[GoingUnderground]

7 hours ago, sandwich station said:

 

Yes I know that but Ruffnut Thorston was specifically talking about what She showed in the picture.

I only posted my comments in case anyone reading your comment who was not familiar with Rovex products before the change to "Hornby Track" thought that you meant all Clip Fit accessories. But it did provide an opportunity to highlight the fact that the necessary System 6 Clip Fit parts for the Command Car did exist, but it was never sold with them. And it was an interesting diversion into what happened to Clip Fit when System 6 was introduced.

[crackedmember]

On 28/05/2021 at 14:57, GoingUnderground said:

Back in Super 4 days, the helicopter car marker was a clipfit accessory comprising a 2 pronged base which slotted between the rails with a hinged square projection about half and inch high. It was hinged through 90 degrees so that when vertical the helicopter was launched by the pin pushing home a spring loaded finger that projected out from one the side of the wagon, or it it could be laid flat parallel to the track so that the wagon could pass without triggering the launch of the helicopter.

 

As regards modelling military trains, I think there might have been such a layout at Warley in 2018 to coincide with 100 years after the end of WW1.  But I might be wrong.

There were several layouts based around the ROD (Railway Operating Division) and LROD  (Light Railway Operating Division).  There was a complete section devoted to this, including one of the Hunslet 4-6-0T from the Imperial War Museum.  I was helping to Operate a friends WDLR narrow gauge layout "Marinique".

 

 

[john new]

On 24/10/2020 at 21:16, Ruffnut Thorston said:

The X.549 Synchrosmoke Element has a ceramic core, with brass, or plated brass, end caps.

 

The wire is resistance wire.

 

New old stock elements are sometimes available on eBay.

 

You could also look for a used element, to get the core and end caps.

 

Also, a complete loco, to use for parts?

 

The element is common to all Synchrosmoke units, in both sizes of units, X.392 and the larger X.391, from 1964 to 1974.

 

From 1961 to 1963, Tri-ang Railways used a brass, funnel like, Seuthe type smoke unit, R.520, later RT.520, that does not have a replaceable element.
 

The Synchrosmoke wadding S.7599 and S.6905 is not asbestos...it’s more like gun cotton.

 

 

 

 

 

Was about to ask the same asbestos question - thank you.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

On 10/05/2022 at 14:36, john new said:

Was about to ask the same asbestos question - thank you.

No problem. 🙂

 

There was an error in the original post, that was corrected in a later post, but the original wasn't edited until today! 🤷🏼‍♀️

 

The wadding is NOT Gun Cotton.

 

It is some kind of fireproof material.

 

Sorry... my error entirely. I had heard that it was a type of fire resistant wadding, used with guns.

 

2 plus 2, in this case, made 6!

 

It has also been suggested that it may be similar to the filling used in the old “petrol” ( lighter fluid) lighters?

 

One thing I have noticed is that it can char or scorch if not kept oiled...

 

🐉🙋🏼‍♀️

[john new]

3 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

No problem. 🙂

 

There was an error in the original post, that was corrected in a later post, but the original wasn't edited until today! 🤷🏼‍♀️

 

The wadding is NOT Gun Cotton.

 

It is some kind of fireproof material.

 

Sorry... my error entirely. I had heard that it was a type of fire resistant wadding, used with guns.

 

2 plus 2, in this case, made 6!

 

It has also been suggested that it may be similar to the filling used in the old “petrol” ( lighter fluid) lighters?

 

One thing I have noticed is that it can char or scorch if not kept oiled...

 

🐉🙋🏼‍♀️

 

Yes, a dark charring mark is visible in this old one. I haven't removed or disturbed the wadding for safety but have removed the element which will be stored in case it is ever needed in the future. Loco is now a runner having had a good clean and oil.