Inspiration for an 8x8 Trainset Board

[MiniMan64]

So this ones a bit of a what if/where do we go from here one. There’s some very creative people here when it comes to track design but maybe I’m barking up the wrong tree. 
 

An 8x6 baseboard was created back in March/April for me [-]and the kids[/-] to play trains on. It was quickly modified into an 8x8 with a square 4x4 hole in the middle. Much better for watching trains going around the outside. 
 

We’ve had a variety of layouts over the summer and currently have a 2nd/3rd radius mainline double loop on the outside and a 1st radius loop on the very inside. This inside loop has occasionally become a double track to facilitate “races”. The next step is to make it a bit more permanent and start creating scenery. Except three/four loops is a little plain, I know the answer is less is more but we like watching lots of trains go by! 
 

So with this guidance:

 

- DC control

- not prototypical 

- 95% Hornby set track

- continuous running 

- at least three ‘running’

- sidings/turntables/tunnels welcome

- bridges/inclines (but recognise probably not due to size limitations 

What would you create on a baseboard like this? It’s probably too trainset-y for most here but I’d love some help and inspiration please! 

Edited October 27, 2020 by MiniMan64

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Hi there.  I wonder what sort of room this is in?   If I understand the dimensions correctly they look like this:

 

(Sorry, picture no longer available)
 

Do you have access from the outside as well?

 

If I’ve got it right, 2’ x 2’ is very small for multiple people to get in (even if some of them are small people), plus it’s a long crawl to get there (with a small hole to aim for - I’m thinking Luke Skywalker destroying the Death Star in the original Star Wars for some reason!).  The reach across the boards at 3’ is a stretch and into the corners at 4’3” is a loooong way.

 

It may be that I’ve misunderstood something (wouldn’t be the first time), but you’ve obviously got a board that is working, so I’m wondering how it’s done?
 

Reason for checking is that designing a layout to keep the kids interested can be as much about what they can reach, how they can swap trains over etc. as it may be about how the track itself is arranged.  If you’re thinking of scenery it sounds like you want to keep them (and yourself) interested - so the track plan needs to be one you won’t get bored with, or frustrated with.

 

One popular idea can be a ‘looped figure of 8’ like this:

 

(Sorry, picture no longer available)

It doesn’t enable you to run two trains on the same circuit, but gives the train a much longer run.  Other circuits can be included inside or outside - but the ruling constraint will be that the spaces between the corners are not very long in this space.  How long are the trains you run?  Just some thoughts as an opener.  Keith.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke
Edit for text only as photos no longer available

[MiniMan64]

Well that’s a good start, I’ve explained my board size incorrectly! Apologies.

 

The shape is right but hole in the middle is 4x4 not 2x2. Sorry! The board width is 2ft deep so reach is not an issue and we actually have access around 3 sides. The board is in the centre of a loft space with access down the sides to access storage. 
 

I suppose in the future there may be scope to extend perpendicular with a board for a terminal or fiddle yard or the like.

[Zomboid]

You could do a split level thing, with a high level circuit to allow for bridges and the like. I'd probably have 2 low level circuits and a high level one, with the low level going under a high level station to provide a tunnel.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Hi there - that all makes sense.  I think we’re looking at this:

 

(Sorry, picture no longer available)
 

A quick scan through this Forum will show other schemes for lofts and the associated practical considerations around using the space; as you’ve already got the boards and have been running trains you may have covered some or all of them already, but three important ones are:

 

i)  Has the loft been converted into a room, or is it still a loft (if you know what I mean)? Others can advise on the building requirements and any safety rules if a loft becomes used as a room - it’s just not something I’ve ever done myself.

 

ii)  How cold will it get up there this winter?  You mentioned the boards have been up over the summer - if it is still a loft it might be worth seeing how you get on in the winter months too - could it get very cold at times?  (May be a seasonal layout).

 

iii)  Ventilation - when you get into scenery and / or electrics (soldering) our wonderful hobby can be messy, smelly and give off some unpleasant fumes.  I either work outside (my boards are portable) or - when building kits at my desk - always have the window open.

In terms of layout ideas:

1.  The space is usable, but probably not as large (in layout terms) as it may look when the boards are bare.  Personally, I wouldn’t be trying to fit in a turntable for example, as they take up a lot of space.

 

2.  The idea of a possible future expansion for a Fiddle Yard / Terminus is an excellent idea - it relieves a lot of pressure on the layout space to try and fit too much onto the existing boards, but also allows you to build in stages before the kids get bored.  No need to plan any expansion in detail now (unless you want to) but I would sketch in where any expansion might go, for two reasons:

 

- to plan where the main control panel will be: it will need to be on the outside of the layout to reach the expansion area.

- to leave room for a junction.
 

3.  Scenic setting - the world is your oyster: what would you like to see?  It may be each member of the family has their own idea - with a four-sided layout there may be room for different ideas to keep everyone happy (depending on how many are in the family).  I would suggest keeping the scenery fairly simple or generic, so it doesn’t look too much like the trains are passing the same point every 15 seconds or so - it’s a weird trick our minds play on us: while the boards are bare, imagination fills in the gaps (so early model railways might label stations London Kings Cross, Leeds and Edinburgh if the owner wanted to run LNER expresses).  As scenery becomes more detailed, less may be left to the imagination.
 

4.  Train length. This is key to any scheme.  I don’t know if you want to focus on a particular era, region or theme, or if each member of the team has their own favourite trains to run, but how long they are will determine what you can fit in.

 

Sorry there’s no detailed ideas in what I’ve posted - have you looked at downloading one of the track planning software programs (there are several, and can have free versions to try).  They could be really helpful, as they usually have the track libraries for Hornby and others already loaded.
 

Also, there are lots of track plans for a table top 8’ x 4’ (some more realistic / workable than others).  A quick internet search will show up loads - take an 8’ x 4’ plan, slice it along the middle and stretch it to go round your operating well and you’ve most likely improved it already.  Just some thoughts which I hope get you started.  Keith.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[PaulRhB]

You certainly can fit in inclines that go up and down in the space. Here’s a photo of what was our childhood 8x4 layout that my Dad has kept and converted to Hornby Dublo. The track plan is virtually identical except he hadn’t got an alternative for the old Hornby auto unloading wagon coal drop. 

A good selection of sidings is good for storing stock plus you can make them industries to suit wagons you have or other toys the kids have. So you could have a car factory, a military depot etc. I built a layout for a friends lad and I included a race track as the top of the tunnel so he could use his Oxford diecast and old Matchbox cars. The track also lifted out to get access to the tunnel if something derailed. 
A trainset is fun and can lead to all sorts of scale layouts later, just look at what I’ve done in my signature links  I still like the 8x4 above though  

[RobinofLoxley]

www.freetrackplans.com

 

Where I started for inspiration for my rebuild

[ikcdab]

To be honest, the world's your oyster! It's an excellent space for starting out.

A good start is CJ  Freezers book, plans for small railways.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274546925080

There good inspiration in thrre.

And please don't think it's too train setty. It's an excellent space for a layout.

Just make sure your loft is suitable ref temperatures etc.

Ian

[Keith Addenbrooke]

41 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

You certainly can fit in inclines that go up and down in the space. Here’s a photo of what was our childhood 8x4 layout that my Dad has kept and converted to Hornby Dublo. The track plan is virtually identical except he hadn’t got an alternative for the old Hornby auto unloading wagon coal drop. 

A good selection of sidings is good for storing stock plus you can make them industries to suit wagons you have or other toys the kids have. So you could have a car factory, a military depot etc. I built a layout for a friends lad and I included a race track as the top of the tunnel so he could use his Oxford diecast and old Matchbox cars. The track also lifted out to get access to the tunnel if something derailed. 
A trainset is fun and can lead to all sorts of scale layouts later, just look at what I’ve done in my signature links  I still like the 8x4 above though  

Perfect - copy this!  (The track plan is on the control panel).
 

I can see why this is giving a lifetime of enjoyment, and I‘ll stand corrected on the turntable - with a central operating well the engine shed sidings would probably be angled off down one side instead, but they could look great that way anyway.
 

You may find modern coaches are longer than in this photo (both prototype if applicable, and model), so trains may be a little bit shorter, and some modern locos climb gradients more gently - but you have more space for a climb on the sides.
 

The future expansion could be from either the top or lower circuits in either of the rear corners, but I think this is great.

[MiniMan64]

Wow, fantastic, what a response! Thank you all. 

 

I see so many amazing proper modelling on here I thought the idea of something very train-setty might be ignored. 

 

You've got the board shape spot on Keith, it was somewhat dictated by the size of wood available from B&Q and the size of the loft hatch if I'm honest. The loft space is good, boarded out and everything, it's not a room per say but we've been using it as a 'play' space for a while, we used to just set loops of track up on the floor. The rolling stock is a motley collection of steam, a large contingent of GWR but also the ever present Scotsman, a treasured but awkward to run City of Chester (first model) and a collection of speedy Hornby 0-4-0's. We don't run massive trains, probably 4 carriages max. 

 

This is the layout as it is now:

 

[RobinofLoxley]

Also the square well in the square baseboard isnt great for the flexibility of planning. Imagine the effect of rounded well corners - not full radius as that would reduce the space too much, but just filling them in.

[MiniMan64]

I have got some extra bits of wood kicking around, I was thinking of filling in the corners so to speak with triangles pieces as I would imagine that would help make use of the usable space. 

 

I do like the up and over bridge on the layout picture above, there's something about a train crossing a bridge that just looks great!  

[Flying Pig]

2 hours ago, MiniMan64 said:

I have got some extra bits of wood kicking around, I was thinking of filling in the corners so to speak with triangles pieces as I would imagine that would help make use of the usable space. 

 

I do like the up and over bridge on the layout picture above, there's something about a train crossing a bridge that just looks great!  

 

I like the layout too, but do note that the up and over line joins the main line at each end, so it doesn't form an independent third circuit. I guess you could convert it to a continuous high level circuit with up and down ramps?

[PaulRhB]

3 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

I like the layout too, but do note that the up and over line joins the main line at each end, so it doesn't form an independent third circuit. I guess you could convert it to a continuous high level circuit with up and down ramps?

Or put two diamond crossings in across the lower two loops for some fun dodging trains  

[MiniMan64]

17 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Or put two diamond crossings in across the lower two loops for some fun dodging trains  

Now that is an interesting idea! 

 

I've had a brief play around in SCARM this morning but it's tricky getting the inclines correct. You need 75-80 clearance for a bridge right? 

 

I think I can make it work if I keep the double mainline flat with a station in one corner (as it already is) and the the inner 'branch lines' are the one that have the incline to go up and over the mainline and back down again into the 'main' station. The small 0-4-0 tanks pulling smaller trains should have a much easier time climbing right? I could build a little station/yard area on the raised corner for them to go and then return to the 'big station' down the hill. This is a very rough first play needing a bit of flexi-track to make it work, there's probably a far more elegant way of doing it! 

 

 

I think tunnels & bridge > turntables and they are a bit of a hogger of space anyway. In the long run it might go on an extra board which can become a bit of a shed/yard area in the bottom right. 

[PaulRhB]

You can test gradients by sticking some track on a plank and raising it up to see what your locos can pull, just remember that a curve induces more friction so either include a curve or reduce the gradient a bit more from where the locos start to slip  

It’s also a fun test to teach the kids about gravity and adhesion. 

We can recommend gradients but it’s always best to check with your stock as some stock is less free running  

Have fun!

[PaulRhB]

22 minutes ago, MiniMan64 said:

This is a very rough first play needing a bit of flexi-track to make it work, there's probably a far more elegant way of doing it! 

Mostly using Set track has the advantage that it’s faster and easier to change things so totally practical for what you are after. I started out wanting track everywhere and now prefer less is more because it suits how my interests have changed. Doesn’t stop me enjoying the odd revision to train set set track though  

 

[Zomboid]

If there's no connection between the circuits, they don't have to be at the same level at any point. Doesn't mean you can't have gradients if you want them, but the high level circuits could vary between 50-80mm above the lower, rather than 0-80mm. Which will be much more forgiving in terms of what you can use on them.

[Legend]

It really depends on what you want on your layout . Seems an obvious thing to say . However , what I mean is are you happy to lift trains on and off track when finished with them and want to replace with other trains?  We all do that at some stage of course , but it strikes me that with 4 circuits not at all connected , even between pairs , you would be doing that all the time .  The layouts suggested are perfect if you simply want to watch trains go round and are happy to lift them on and off.

 

I'm much more into operating so I like to have my trains go to/from somewhere . So Id have a terminal platform enabling run rounds  and trains running from that to perhaps the loop you have in the station . You can run round there and send it back again . Makes it interesting for me but maybe not you , we are all different . So my inclination would be to cut the number of loops  but have more sidings to swap locos , stock , a few freight sidings for shunting .  I think connecting the circuits gives that more interesting operation. 

 

The way things are going modern locos are not always comfortable with first radius curves , so I would go as big as possible .4th/3rd and 2nd , but again it depends what you want to run. 

 

Hornby track plans and Cyril Freezers books are pretty good references . 

 

Whatever way you do it , have fun . Its great having bare boards and figuring out how to fill it!

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Looks to me like this plan could either work as two pairs of double track lines on different levels, or one double track folded figure of eight with gradients (fewer trains but a longer run):

 

1 hour ago, MiniMan64 said:

Paul’s advice on gradients is very good:

 

57 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

You can test gradients by sticking some track on a plank and raising it up to see what your locos can pull, just remember that a curve induces more friction so either include a curve or reduce the gradient a bit more from where the locos start to slip  

It’s also a fun test to teach the kids about gravity and adhesion. 

We can recommend gradients but it’s always best to check with your stock as some stock is less free running  

Have fun!

 

If it’s possible, test the pulling power on curves of different radii - on a double track, the inner curve has a steeper gradient than the outer one to rise / descend the same height with a shorter distance.

 

It can get a bit Scalextric but if it’s possible to have the rising gradients on the outside or gentler curves, and the descending ones on steeper or inside curves, that can sometimes help too.

[MiniMan64]

The loops may be linked somehow, I’m just playing around with a basic track layout before adding the extras, there’s no sidings on the plans either.

 

I’ve got some card and polystyrene kicking around somewhere so I might have a little play around with inclines and see what the smaller engines can manage. We don’t run massive trains anyway.

[RobinofLoxley]

I think there might be the possibility to link the two part of the laout via a linkage of curved points, at the top of the station right hand side. Tracks are sharing a platform so intended to be level. Just shift the right hand platform down a bit and insert 2 points. There are many places where cross-over between tracks could be introduced.

Sidings are a bit tricky but if each track was shortened by the eq of an R600 2 sidings can be fitted at the top of the layout.

[MiniMan64]

I'm thinking of raising the 6x2 piece of the baseboard that the top right corner sits on, the main station, by just a few inches, might make the incline a little less heavy. 

[MiniMan64]

On 30/10/2020 at 08:38, MiniMan64 said:

I'm thinking of raising the 6x2 piece of the baseboard that the top right corner sits on, the main station, by just a few inches, might make the incline a little less heavy. 

 
I think I’ll definitely have to do this.

 

I had a little mock up with some cardboard this afternoon and took a go at running some locos up. It was a bit hit and miss because the track was loose and my cardboard was a bit wonky but the small stuff was fine.

 

 

I do really like the up and over look though.

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

1 hour ago, MiniMan64 said:

 
I think I’ll definitely have to do this.

 

I had a little mock up with some cardboard this afternoon and took a go at running some locos up. It was a bit hit and miss because the track was loose and my cardboard was a bit wonky but the small stuff was fine.

 

I do really like the up and over look though.

 

Were the kids allowed to have a go too?  (I’m hoping the train got back down again - bit of a cliff hanger at the end of the video!).  Certainly looked fun - and on a serious point the clearance under the bridge seems good.  Looks like the way to go.