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CLC/GC and LNWR Exchange "Minories"-style Layout


nathan70000
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So I've been planning a UK layout for quite some time and I have considered quite a few locations, mostly in the ex-LNER area but the variety of lines between Liverpool, Manchester and West Yorkshire have always caught my interest - think "dark satanic mills". One of my favorite layouts I've ever seen was in this sort of setting- I can't remember the name, but it was set in West Yorkshire and featured quite a lot of grubby WDs, green diesels, and a bridge running over a canal. Somewhere I have the magazine it featured in, it was quite a long time ago, something like 2001 or 2002.

 

I do however have quite a space restriction- the layout can't be on display all of the time and ideally the boards need to slide underneath my existing US layout so they can't be any longer than 4ft long and no wider than 2ft wide. That's quite a restriction when I'm aiming for a fairly busy inner city terminus. I've been playing around on SCARM and I've come up with this:

clcterminus.png.1ae81c22fb2c39e79a4b912743b1dd92.png

It's a fairly crap drawing but it does meet the criteria- it's on two boards, one 4' by 1' 2" and the other just 3'. All the point work will be on the 4ft board making it a little bit easier to manage electrics-wise. I already have a bit of wood I can use to mount the fiddle yard. It uses Hornby semi-flexible track and Hornby's longer points- all easy to get hold of and relatively cost effective. It is somewhat inspired by the "Minories" plan, but slightly compressed (I imagine an off-scene crossover within a tunnel, followed by a goods yard on the other side of the tunnel). I could expand it further in future taking inspiration from the American "modular" approach. The road over bridge in the centre of the layout disguises the join between baseboards. It will be surrounded by retaining walls but the focus is more on operations than scenery, to be quite honest. However, the period I intend to set the layout in will allow for lots of evocative advertising which should brighten things up.

 

So what about the setting and the historical background? Well, first of all I decided to make it an exchange station between the Cheshire Lines Committee (CLC) and the LNWR, somewhere in an urban area west of the Pennines, possibly Stockport or Liverpool. I haven't yet decided on an exact location, but my excuse for the small footprint is that it was built right at the end of the railway-building age (in about the 1880s at the earliest) and the CLC were strapped for cash, and could only afford a tiny slither of land. Because I'm a contrarian and everyone seems to set their layouts in the 1950s or 60s, this one is going to be set in the decade from 1920 to 1930, taking in the last years of the pre-grouping period and the formative years of the LNER and the LMS. I do love the idea of "transition", but it does seem like the only transition that is modelled is the one from diesel to steam. The CLC/LNER side of operations will likely feature J11s, K3s, D11s, J50s, and J72s, whilst the LNWR/LMS trains will feature Coal Tanks, ex L&Y Class 5s, Midland Compounds and hopefully an Improved Precedent. I intend to light the layout, and use lit rakes of Hattons Genesis coaches which should convey an good impression of the period. No locomotive larger than a 4-4-0 and no coaches longer than a Hornby/Triang Clerestory. Yes, Pacifics and Mk1s are banned!

 

In future I may play around with the era a bit, the bay platform is designed to fit a Class 105 DMU...you never know.

 

So, I have a few questions.

 

A), does the track plan work?

B), what would station in such a limited space look like? I've toyed with the idea of a low-relief station building at the far left end of the plan and an overall roof, like a very tiny version of Liverpool Central.

C), how would it be painted? In CLC/GC colours, or in LNWR colours?

 

 

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It would be really good to see anything that captures the feel of Liverpool Central - I shall follow with interest.

From an operational perspective would a second crossover in front of the Signal Box improve things?

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A  No.  You deleted the crossover from lower right incoming line  to the  upper platforms so there is no way to get incoming trans to the upper platforms.  Bog standard Minories avoids this problem as all platforms can be accessed from both incoming tracks.  Easiest solution is revert o Minories basically as shown by my blue lines on your diagram..

There is no logic for the short platform, but if there are two companies the likelihood is that two trains would arrive in quick succession, especially in the morning peak and two leave equally close together in the evening to take the toffs back to their posh gaffs. Two at a Five minute headway and then a two hour gap in the timetable was pretty normal.

A crossover near the platform end would mean off peak engines could run round their own trains.

Unlike Minories its unlikely a turn round loco would take the train back out immediately more likely the train would be moved to carriage sidings or shunted to one of the top platforms, one would have been for one route and the other for t'other as folk weren't too literate oop north.

(Down south folk what was illiterate couldn't afford train tickets anyway.)    Minories is a great concept, within its parameters no one has ever improved on it...

 

 

Screenshot (65).png

Edited by DavidCBroad
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clcterminus.png.1fd4761cb41a2215be2b9d74c9f38551.png

And here you have it! A revised version, with the extra crossover and an overall roof. "Atmosphere" is the key word here- not a 100% accurate recreation of a particular time or place, but certainly reminiscent of places like Liverpool Central. Does anyone know of a plastic kit for an overall roof that will fit a double-track terminus?

 

The bay platform at the top could be a passenger platform, but it could also be used for goods vans and perishables traffic, perhaps?

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Try this....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332792933429

 

and how about some parcels stock for the bay?

 

a further thought - you have the option of having your station buiding perpendicular to the tracks beyond the buffers giving a longer bay..if you want...leaving more shunting flexibility for the lowest track which gives access to the siding

Edited by Gilbert
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12 hours ago, AireValley1962 said:

This looks like an excellent little plan. I'm trying something similar-like on my newish BR(SR) project.

 

Go for it!

 

Cheers, Will

 

20200209_195219.jpg.8f1f38dfc190a11277644c30d733fc2a.jpg

Its an interesting plan but you have lost the pair of crossovers in the throat which makes Minories so flexible and gives that inner suburban feel.   Instead of trains being able to arrive and depart from all platforms they can only both arrive and depart from the middle road.   It's actually a very good plan for a Country Branch terminus on a narrow site if the approach tracks converge back into a single line off stage

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48 minutes ago, DavidCBroad said:

Its an interesting plan but you have lost the pair of crossovers in the throat which makes Minories so flexible and gives that inner suburban feel.   Instead of trains being able to arrive and depart from all platforms they can only both arrive and depart from the middle road.   It's actually a very good plan for a Country Branch terminus on a narrow site if the approach tracks converge back into a single line off stage

 

Much depends on what sort of operation you want. You can go for easy or you can go for more complex.

 

My latest layout is very similar to the above plan except I have an extra point to give three platforms and one goods siding/unloading bay plus a loco spur. The coal wagon is on the loco spur and the clerestory full brake is in the loading dock.

 

P1010002.JPG.c678bd7eaa428fdb77f2d75dfaba5284.JPG

 

If you have a train that arrives in the LH platform, you have to shunt it to the next one down to allow it to depart. A train arriving in the centre platform can either go straight out or be shunted to the RH platform where it clears the two other platforms for arrivals. A goods/newspaper/fish/horse box train can be moved to the RH platform and shunted from there, still leaving two platforms for arrivals and one for departures. Having different platforms performing different functions can either be seen as a problem or a benefit, depending on your operational preferences.

 

I watched a layout built to a very similar plan at a show a while ago and it was a superb example of a very simple layout that had loads of operational possibilities, so I nicked the idea! 

Edited by t-b-g
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11 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

. . . . .It's actually a very good plan for a Country Branch terminus on a narrow site if the approach tracks converge back into a single line off stage.

 

At the risk of taking over this thread, that's exactly what it is.  My own thread has more details. Cheers!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 16/11/2020 at 13:16, t-b-g said:

 

Much depends on what sort of operation you want. You can go for easy or you can go for more complex.

 

My latest layout is very similar to the above plan except I have an extra point to give three platforms and one goods siding/unloading bay plus a loco spur. The coal wagon is on the loco spur and the clerestory full brake is in the loading dock.

 

P1010002.JPG.c678bd7eaa428fdb77f2d75dfaba5284.JPG

 

If you have a train that arrives in the LH platform, you have to shunt it to the next one down to allow it to depart. A train arriving in the centre platform can either go straight out or be shunted to the RH platform where it clears the two other platforms for arrivals. A goods/newspaper/fish/horse box train can be moved to the RH platform and shunted from there, still leaving two platforms for arrivals and one for departures. Having different platforms performing different functions can either be seen as a problem or a benefit, depending on your operational preferences.

 

I watched a layout built to a very similar plan at a show a while ago and it was a superb example of a very simple layout that had loads of operational possibilities, so I nicked the idea! 

Hi Tony

Going slightly OT but it strikes me that this could be a plan for a terminus serving two single track lines with the central platform shared (thinks, Fort William on steroids)

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9 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Hi Tony

Going slightly OT but it strikes me that this could be a plan for a terminus serving two single track lines with the central platform shared (thinks, Fort William on steroids)

 

Indeed it would work like that and even on a very simple layout, two trains could arrive or depart side by side, which would look impressive.

 

It also crossed my mind that you could have two platforms instead of three, making the redundant platform into a siding, by making it single track and the other line into a headshunt. You could do it either way round but I think it would work best if the LH track was the running line and the RH track the headshunt for a two road goods facility. The goods would arrive and depart using the RH of the two platforms.

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On 13/11/2020 at 20:36, nathan70000 said:

clcterminus.png.1fd4761cb41a2215be2b9d74c9f38551.png

And here you have it! A revised version, with the extra crossover and an overall roof. "Atmosphere" is the key word here- not a 100% accurate recreation of a particular time or place, but certainly reminiscent of places like Liverpool Central. Does anyone know of a plastic kit for an overall roof that will fit a double-track terminus?

 

The bay platform at the top could be a passenger platform, but it could also be used for goods vans and perishables traffic, perhaps?

Interesting Nathan. It's using the Minories throat but for a two rather than a three platform terminis. I've not seen that used in a layout before but it makes perfect sense and there are/were plenty of two platform termini . Windsor Riverside comes immediately to mind (though it used to have three platforms) but this was the buffer end of Sheerness Dockyard.

sheerness_dockyard_old2.jpg.cec9ffd0f4874f1e80934c00459fe7fb.jpg

Depending on the era,, If you generally treat the lower main platform as arrivals and the upper  as departures you can avoid the reverse curve over the two back to back points for coaching stock by always shunting via the "down" (outbound) main line. light engines can though still reach the main departures road without running wrong road from an off-stage shed.

 

 

Hornby do an overall roof but I've never found it very convincing. the actual roof just looks too plastic. The sort of thing you might find in a modern shopping centre but not a station.

72412978_Hornbyoverallroof.jpg.e61e565fb4e26c4d542f2e3a4bc533e4.jpg

 

Jouef (pre Hornby) used to do one for H0 and though it's somewhat typically French I've seen similar pitched rather than curved roofs in Britain including the once separate District Railway terminus at Ealing Broadway that still covers two of the District Line platforms.

696524372_Jouefcanopykit.jpg.e400dcaa33b59c59ed2d516dd4347157.jpg

For a British version it might look better mounted on brick walls than on columns (and the columns in the Jouef kit are a bit flimsy in any case.)

 

Edited by Pacific231G
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