Jump to content

Dinorwic Port Class Quarrey Hunslet Question


Recommended Posts

Good evening all.

 

I am building a Port Class Hunslet (based on Michael) from a 16 mm 3D printed/laser cut acrylic kit. The kit is quite generic/ basic, but provides an excellent basis for adding detail.

I am trying to find dimensions and details of parts on Port Class Hunslets. In normal times a trip to Statfold with a camera and tape measure would have been my preferred option (a good day out too!) but, alas, won't be able to do that for a while.......

In particular, I would like to find out the dimensions of the cab spectacle rings (OD and ID) and drawings, or photos and dimensions of the safety valves and whistle on the dome. Arrangement drawing or photo of the cab interior would also be useful.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction please? Any information would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in anticipation 

Best Regards

Mike

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

You Need Don Townsley's drawing, it's in Cliff Thomas's Quarry Hunslets book and I believe may have appeared in the model railway press at some point too. I've only got Alice class stuff here at the moment. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Quarryscapes said:

You Need Don Townsley's drawing, it's in Cliff Thomas's Quarry Hunslets book and I believe may have appeared in the model railway press at some point too. I've only got Alice class stuff here at the moment. 

 

*

There were three Don Townsley Hunslet Quarry Locomotive articles as follows.

 

"0-4-0ST Jerry M", MRN, September 1966 p.416.

"0-4-0ST VELINHELI", MRN, November 1966, p.504.

"0-4-0ST No 2", MRN, March 1967, pp.138-140.

 

I think I am correct in saying that "Michael" was like No 2.

 

 

 

CP

 

 

Edited by cp409067
Link to post
Share on other sites

Michael didn't keep its cab for very long, and I don't recall having seen a photograph with it fitted while working in the quarry, although Cliff Thomas's text says there is a 1948 photograph showing a cab fitted. It was probably removed about 1950.

 

Don Townley's drawing of No. 2 in Quarry Hunslets of North Wales is superb, and I recommend you either get a copy of this book or the appropriate issue of MRN. In the book it is at a convenient scale of 8 mm/ft. The cab spectacles are about 15" diameter (the apperture appears to be a little more than this, and the inside of the brass frames a little less), at 30" centres, but it is rather harder describing the whistle and safety valves.

 

Michael is probably the least photographed of the three locomotives, but there are plenty of photographs online of Dolbadarn (No. 2). From what I can tell, apart from the cab-mounted whistle and a mechanical lubricator, she is still in pretty much original shape (although doubtless many parts have been replaced). However, I admit I have not made a close study. No. 1 now goes by the name of Lady Joan (as it did for a time in the quarry), as I expect you know, and there are photographs of her as well.

Edited by Jeremy C
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Gents.. Thank you very much for your very helpful replies. I have managed to order a copy of Cliff Thomas's book - out of print long ago, so a second hand copy was quite difficult to find at a sensible price!!  Anyway, success and I am reliably informed it is worth every penny. Here by the weekend.

The kit I am building is, as I said, fairly basic, but ripe for some detailing. It is for running in the garden though, not destined for a showcase. The only things wrong with it really, are that the cab spectacles/ cab front and back don't look right and I will need to make or acquire fundamental, important details such as safety valves, lubricators, reverser lever, etc - hence the need for drawings....and the detailed info and photos in the book.

Jeremy, I have measured the kit and the spectacles and they are only 12" diameter and too far apart... so my initial thoughts were right. Should be fairly easily rectified.

My loco will be called Emily, so it won't be an exact replica of any of the 3 locos in particular - but I want it to be a proper Port Hunslet. I chose Michael as a basis because I like the rivets!! Smokebox has them, tank doesn't and all 3 have cabs now!! ( It might even end up GW green with copper capped chimney and polished brass!! )

Once again, thank you - your replies are much appreciated and have helped get me going.

Best Regards

Mike

Chritopher - will reply to your PM shortly - thanks

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a complete set of works drawings for a Quarry Hunslet.

 

Some of them were used by Accucraft for their 7/8ths offering.

 

I think it's a large Quarry version, but a lot of the parts were interchangeable.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mike,  I have a photocopy of a copy of the 1 1/2" GA dwg. for No's 1 & 2 (I don't think Michael is much different) and the front spectacles are shown as 1' 2" i.d.   The safeties are shown as 1 1/2" dia, Ross Pops.

I have attached a scan of the cab cross section which I hope helps.  There are nice clear but undimensioned side views of Lady Joan and cabless Michael in 'Slates to Velinheli'.

I've always had a soft spot for the Port class and, many years ago, also built one in 16mm. Now I have one in 4" scale!  Good luck with your project.

Cheers,

Ray.

 

Hunslet  cab dwg.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

4" scale - now that's a proper loco!!

 

Happy H, Ray, thanks very much for your replies - much appreciated. My copy of Cliff Thomas's book arrived this morning and it is brilliant - some great photos of dismantled locos and Don Townsleys drawings in it are very good for my purposes, especially combined with the extra detail shown on yours above, Ray. I think you are right about common parts HH, the large quarry hunslets were different look and layout though, (bigger Alice??) so might get back to you if I need more info, if I may.

I had thought the safety valves were Ross pops, but confirmation of this and the size, is invaluable, as is the noted 1'2" ID spectacle frame on the drawing.

 

For now I think I have enough info for a simple model for the garden, but I will keep this thread bookmarked so that I can ask for further help if needed, if you gentlemen don't mind.  Once you start detailing, where do you stop!?  

The arrangement of the cab interior is probably the bit I have least knowledge of, although the above drawing clarifies reverser/brake standard arrangement. Good cab interior photos are rare. 

 

I will have a look at Slates to Velinheli, although I am still smarting a bit at £40 for a second hand copy of Quarry Hunslets of North Wales!!! Pleased that it is so good and worth it. The trouble is, I am getting drawn in to the charms of these lovely, characterful little engines, so......

 

Thanks again to all who have taken the trouble to reply and offer help,

Best regards

Mike

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm glad that the drawing I posted was useful.  I don't know if you've seen Quarryscapes' thread on building a 16mm scale model of Red Damsel

Although Red Damsel is an Alice class rather than a Port class the backhead detail should be the same.

Cheers,

Ray.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's not much similar with Red Damsel sadly, Port class locos have a different reverser, Firefox mounted brake standard, backhead mounted injectors and a totally different steam turret. I'm not actually 100% sure, but I don't think the firebox is as tall as an Alice class , though it could be an illusion created by the raised barrel pitch.  I would like to build Dolbadarn, but as running with Alice boiler one day. I have started making the 3d models...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Out of interest, what is this dimension? I can't make it out whether it's the same as Velinheli or not. The width of the tank is interestingly (to me!) an inch wider. 

 

 

On 16/01/2021 at 12:50, Marshall5 said:

Hi Mike,  I have a photocopy of a copy of the 1 1/2" GA dwg. for No's 1 & 2 (I don't think Michael is much different) and the front spectacles are shown as 1' 2" i.d.   The safeties are shown as 1 1/2" dia, Ross Pops.

I have attached a scan of the cab cross section which I hope helps.  There are nice clear but undimensioned side views of Lady Joan and cabless Michael in 'Slates to Velinheli'.

I've always had a soft spot for the Port class and, many years ago, also built one in 16mm. Now I have one in 4" scale!  Good luck with your project.

Cheers,

Ray.

 

 

 

537595861_Hunsletcabdwg.jpg.73165070d62fe60f396b40695396ef98.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the object marked Greenem(?) and Cravens on Ray's drawing?  Is it an injector? If so, would there have been a matching one on the other side of the back-head? The photos I have aren't comprehensive enough to show all the interesting detail in the cab and on the backhead.

Also, what is the "apparatus" on the firebox top on the Ports (where the safety valve turret is on the Alice's) ?

Thanks

Mike

Edited by mikesvirginstow2
Spellchecker thought it knew better than me what I was trying to say.
Link to post
Share on other sites

It is Gresham and Craven, and it is an injector. Beyond the edge of the picture, the writing will say which of their injectors it is (they were given numbers), but I expect there is someone on here who knows such things. Some rather out of focus photos I have of Velinheli show that the injector on the opposite side is opposite-handed.

 

Have you seen the picture of Michael (without cab) here: https://hmrs.org.uk/stewards/welshng?

 

It has the clearest image I have seen of the board that the pressure gauge was mounted on (and is a good complement to the one in Cliff Thomas's book, being from the other side. There does appear to be something on top of the firebox, just visible under the driver's hand, although I cannot make out what it is. Other photographs confirm whatever is there cannot be very high.

 

There are two pictures of No. 1 on this page, which may be of use: https://museum.wales/collections/online/object/dbd05230-89e2-3a7f-a144-833c83152805/Locomotive-photograph/ (you would probably do well to ignore the photograph of Dolbadarn, since this is from when it had an Alice class boiler fitted). I have not been able to find any clear pictures of the cab of any of the locos, apart from recent ones of Dolbadarn which I would not trust as a reflection of how Michael ever was.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Might you be referring to the Manifold?  If so, it is the steam turret with valves for taking off steam for injectors, blower, whistle and pressure gauge (and steam brake if there is one)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mike, the backhead mounted injectors are Gresham & Craven No3's and,yes, there would be one on each side.  I've scanned other drawing sections which show the manifold in side and plan views - attached below.  Hopefully these should give you enough detail for your model.  I'll send a p.m. with another drawing that might help.

Cheers,

Ray.

scan0005.jpg

scan0008.jpg

Edited by Marshall5
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Giles said:

Might you be referring to the Manifold?  If so, it is the steam turret with valves for taking off steam for injectors, blower, whistle and pressure gauge (and steam brake if there is one)

The injectors on most of these locos were "combinations"  i.e the steam valves were combined with the injectors and clacks on the backhead.  The whistle valve on these 3 locos was on the dome next to the Ross pop safety valves and fed from the dome.  I think any steam brakes are likely to be post-preservation additions so the only valves on the manifold/turret would be a blower valve and a pressure gauge shut-off ..... unless I'm missing something.

Cheers,

Ray.

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, mikesvirginstow2 said:

What is the object marked Greenem(?) and Cravens on Ray's drawing?  Is it an injector? If so, would there have been a matching one on the other side of the back-head? The photos I have aren't comprehensive enough to show all the interesting detail in the cab and on the backhead.

Also, what is the "apparatus" on the firebox top on the Ports (where the safety valve turret is on the Alice's) ?

Thanks

Mike

 

Ask Slater's nicely and they might sell you the injector castings from the Rough pup kit (They are the same). Yes, one each side of the firebox, same with gauge glasses. 

 

On top of the firebox is just the blower take off, everything else being on the dome, unlike an Alice class. 

 

There's some good views of Holy War's backhead here http://www.penmorfa.com/Slate/Dinorwic-1967 & 1968.htm, obviously ignore the free standing brake column and the gubbins on top of the firebox. 

 

ETA: Also found this page full of useful detail views from King of the Scarlets, which does have the correct firebox mounted brake column: https://www.kathymillatt.co.uk/2018/03/31/king-of-scarlets-a-quarry-hunslet/

 

ETA Again, actually it seems the Port class had the gauge glass and injector positions reversed, so the above although good for components, is not correct for layout. I keep forgetting how much of a minefield the details of these things are....

Edited by Quarryscapes
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Marshall5 said:

Hi Mike, the backhead mounted injectors are Gresham & Craven No3's and,yes, there would be one on each side.  I've scanned other drawing sections which show the manifold in side and plan views - attached below.  Hopefully these should give you enough detail for your model.  I'll send a p.m. with another drawing that might help.

Cheers,

Ray.

scan0005.jpg

scan0008.jpg

 

Are you able to scan the bit with the dome on it? I can then make up 3D prints for the safety valves and whistle should folks want. 

 

Much obliged! 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow Gents, so much information and references to some great photos and web sites and of course the drawings. You are very kind to take the trouble to share your knowledge.  My kit (PDF Models) is nowhere near as sophisticated as the Slaters or EDM/Agenoria kits, so I may ditch the cast backhead on mine and fabricate my own - or perhaps just hold things in check - it's a simple kit to run in the garden!! At least I can now have the major items represented properly...... 

The 3D printed dome mounted safety valve / whistle assembly for the Ports would probably be well received - my kit has Alice type safety valve turret (standard parts for all their Hunslet kits) - that's what started my search, because I knew that was wrong.  I am sure some PDF customers would be interested. I know I would be - I am working out how to make my own!!

One result of my research (this tread has been brilliant) is that I have really got interested in the quarry hunslets and their work. Cliff Thomas's book is fascinating - Got Slates to Velinheli ordered and I am looking at the books by Boyd! Can't wait for us to be let out .... Statfold and West Lancs Railway will be early visits when they hopefully re-open!

Thanks again to all

Best regards

Mike

 

 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.