Mysterious Point Behaviour

[PAL]

I wonder if members can cast light on a strange phenomenon I encounter from time to time. I have ten electrofrog points crammed on to a 5ft by 20 inch layout (00 gauge, Peco point motors, CDU fitted).  Sometimes, at the start of a session - it's always at the start, after an interval of at least 12 hours since the last one -  I find one of the points is dead - that is,  the motor throws it across all right but the loco stalls on it. it's usually a different point every time but there are one or two repeat offenders. But then after a few minutes and a bit of switching the point back and forth the point always begins working again -  so far anyway.  I'm pretty sure it's not the blade or wiring connections because all the points work faultlessly otherwise. It occurred to me it might be something to do with the CDU, but what do I know? Possible explanations and remedies from members with more expertise would be gratefully received.   Is it going to get worse?       

[stewartingram]

Is their any wiring for the live frog via a switch? If not then to me it sounds like poor contact of the blade against the stock rail, from standing. Moving it a few times is cleaning the surface contact. Always a potential unreliability problem.

All my points are electrofrog, operated by Seep motors (similar design to Peco, but not as easy to align when fitting). The motors are built on a plasticard sub-base, designed to make fitting of the motors to the baseboard much simpler with easy alignment. The base includes a proper microswitch, which is used to switch the frog. I admit that there are a couple where I still have to tweak the blade of the switch as they are not moving quite enough  but I haven't found my roundtuit yet! I also have a (homebuilt) cdu in circuit as well; I cannot see how that would affect the frog switching.

 

Stewart

[Michael Hodgson]

CDU gives the tie bar a hefty lick, so the point blade is thumped every time you change the points.   That does cleaning contact but that sort of treatment doesn't help moving parts to last long.  That's one of the reasons why some people don't like solenoid motors and prefer slower acting devices.  I prefer Seeps over Peco PL10, but find the built-in switches (on the models that have one) rather unreliable.  As Stewart says, a proper microswitch is better.

[PAL]

Thanks to both. I've never used microswitches. From what you say, I think they might be worth investigating.

[Graham108]

It might be difficult to install 'live' frog operation if your track / points is already layed & fixed down.

 

Is it the same loco, or type of loco (eg single bogie) which stalls each time?

 

Graham

[kevinlms]

On 03/02/2021 at 21:07, PAL said:

  Is it going to get worse?       

Well, it will never improve! It may get worse.

 

There was a thread about pre-arranging points to be modified B4 laying just in case. The links were cut and droppers soldered on and then the droppers were stripped and twisted together, to conform with the arrangement B4 the links were cut!

 

It was a roundabout way of arranging the changes, before the track was laid and actually modified at a later date with switches, if deemed neccessary.

[DCB]

Sounds like the blades or tags are not making contact until the point is thrown a few times.  Every three  or four years the tags on our main line junction point work need cleaning and every time you use them the outside station points blades and tags needed cleaning before I fitted tiny Chinese micro switches operated  directly by the point tie bar.  to take the load from the point blades.  That's on DC. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by DavidCBroad

[kevinlms]

12 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

Sounds like the blades or tags are not making contact until the point is thrown a few times.  Every three  or four years the tags on our main line junction point work need cleaning and every time you use them the outside station points blades and tags needed cleaning before I fitted tiny Chinese micro switches operated  directly by the point tie bar.  to take the load from the point blades.  That's on DC. 

And on DCC.