Inspection pits around turntables, dimensions?

[Royal42]

I am constructing a small N Gauge layout which has a turntable that has ten branches off.  Nine of these branches have inspection pits and I want to include them in my build.  Can anyone advise me what the depth would be, in actual feet and inches, plus whether the pit extends outside of the track; for access to the outside of the wheels perhaps?   Would there have been a standard length for these pits?

The turntable I am referring to is the one that used to be on the western side of Birmingham New Street station; it was demolished in 1964.

 

cheers,
Mike

Edited April 10, 2021 by Royal42

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Royal42 said:

I am constructing a small N Gauge layout which has a turntable that has ten branches off.  Nine of these branches have inspection pits and I want to include them in my build.  Can anyone advise me what the depth would be, in actual feet and inches, plus whether the pit extends outside of the track; for access to the outside of the wheels perhaps?   Would there have been a standard length for these pits?

The turntable I am referring to is the one that used to be on the western side of Birmingham New Street station; it was demolished in 1964.

 

cheers,
Mike

Hi Mike

 

The depth of pits varied. How detailed are any photos you have of loco pits? If you can count the number of brick courses, most bricks are 3 inches high with a layer of mortar. If not, can you see the steps at the end? If so count the number of steps, most steps are 9 inches high, but some can be only a 6 inch rise. 

 

My own investigations have shown steam pits to be 2feet 6 inches to 3 feet deep. A man standing in them is able to reach the vale gear to oil it up or rake the ash out of the firebox.

 

Diesel locos have deeper pits so the fitters are not on their knees reaching up to the traction motors etc.

[phil_sutters]

There is a photo of the turntable in this YouTube gallery of photos of New Street. It is a brief glimpse at 2.14 minutes. The turntable is obviously on the way out, although the date is not shown. Not all roads seem to have pits in this view. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvlg-NqCKkg

I have now found the original view here http://www.photobydjnorton.com/NewStAtWork2.html which is dated 5.2.1963.

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by phil_sutters

[Royal42]

Clive, I can work on 2ft 6in to 3ft;  however, there aren't any views of brickwork or other elements to give any impression of sizes; hence my request. 

 

Phil, Those images images are what I have been using as reference which is precious little.  The image below, from the warwickshirerailways forum, shows most roads having pits but your reference appears to show less.  I am not knowledgeable on trackwork but I am assuming that if we can see sleepers then there isn't a pit there?

 

 

 

Thanks both,

Mike

 

[phil_sutters]

I would assume that you are correct - sleepers = no inspection pit. It is difficult to tell from the photo that we have both found how deep the pits were. I know nothing about New Street, but I would assume that the turntable and associated roads were purely to service locos between trains. They would have returned to their main depots at the end of their shifts. So the pits would in that case have been for minor checks.

I have rounded up any photos from my Dad's and my files that have even a corner of a pit. Some have quite good details. You can see them at 

There may be more. If so I will add them to the album.

[pH]

From an ex-LMS shed (Carlisle Upperby):

and ex-LNER:

 

Those last two are both from Edinburgh St. Margaret’s, but look to be of different depths.

Edited April 12, 2021 by pH
Spelling

[Royal42]

Lots of good photo's there gents, thank you.  I believe they have answered my query about sleepers, in that I think these are just chairs on the hardstanding, just like the last image above.

 

Also, in the dialogue on one of the photo's that I have seen, it says that "Each of the turntable's eight short sidings had their own ash pit to aid the servicing of the locomotive which minimised the number of light engine movements to either Saltley, Aston or Monument Lane".

 

cheers,
Mike

Edited April 12, 2021 by Royal42

[pH]

Apologies - that picture of Scot 46110 is at Carlisle Upperby, not Perth. I’ve edited the post above. (The next photo in the album was at Perth.)

[brossard]

Scalescenes do inspection pits.  Just make 'em up and they're going to be right.

 

Here's a pair I made in 0 gauge:

 

 

These are now installed but I don't have a good picture.  On either side I glued a plastic timber on which I glued (MEK) chaired rail.

 

John

Edited April 12, 2021 by brossard

[Clive Mortimore]

11 minutes ago, brossard said:

Scalescenes do inspection pits.  Just make 'em up and they're going to be right.

 

John

Hi John

 

They are ideal for diesel pits but too deep for steam locos.

[pH]

6 hours ago, Royal42 said:

Also, in the dialogue on one of the photo's that I have seen, it says that "Each of the turntable's eight short sidings had their own ash pit to aid the servicing of the locomotive which minimised the number of light engine movements to either Saltley, Aston or Monument Lane".

 

My emphasis.
 

1 hour ago, brossard said:

Scalescenes do inspection pits.  Just make 'em up and they're going to be right.

 

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

They are ideal for diesel pits but too deep for steam locos.

I know the discussion has been about inspection pits, but the OP has quoted a caption which talks about ash pits.

 

It’s hard to remember back 50+ years (remembering last week can be difficult at times!), but were ash pits not generally deeper than inspection pits? - someone had to be able to stand up almost straight to rake out ashpans.

 

If that was the case, these Scalescene inspection pits might be just what the OP wants.

[brossard]

For modelling purposes, and Mike is doing N gauge, I don't see an issue with depth.  The Scalescenes product is a kit so depth can be adjusted if one wants to be precise.  In any case, I haven't seen anyone say what the depth should actually be.

 

John

[Royal42]

Thanks all,  I checked out the Scalescenes inspection pit and found that it is currently a free download, therefore I have printed it and will see how it fits on the layout.

 

Here is how the setup looks at the moment.  It is non-working so it won't be a problem that the tracks are old and some broken.

 

I am just making up the sides with paper and balsa sheet in order to match the scale heights of the surrounding roads and junctions.

 

cheers,
Mike

[Clive Mortimore]

A screen shot from a video uploaded in this thread about the same subject.

 

Raking out a firebox in the ash pit, the rails are at waist height of the man.