First foray into 4mm finescale modelling. Layout and questions thread

[RobA2345]

Hi all. I've added a few threads all over RMWeb recently with questions and I have probably dozens more so I thought I'd make a layout thread.

 

Track Plan help and suggestions
Tandem 3 way point help

 

The track is 4mm EM gauge standards and the stock is late 80s early 90s Railfreight stuff. The baseboards are repurposed, I originally ordered them for a 2mm layout but I reached a breaking point with the poor results I'd had in terms of getting the tractive stock to run reliably with the RtR models I was using. I just wanted to do some shunting so wanted a couple of sidings, the track is running parallel for the most part which is limiting I admit but I had a concept in mind and even though I'm now questioning that concept the track is built and in place so I can't see that changing. It's unlikely I will keep the building mock ups as I'm not convinced by them yet and I'm looking for suggestions as buildings are not my area of expertise.

This is not my first foray into finescale, I'm a member of the 2FS society and have build a simple layout as per the second image so building trackwork wasn't alien to me.

 

I'll start some questions soon, I have some regarding stock in terms of mods etc but I'll leave them until later  
 

[jollysmart]

I like what you have done up to now and the concept does show potential for shunting.

 

Looking at the other treads you started it seems that the idea of a kick back siding didn't happen but the storage area is quite small for the business as the major part of track is running lines. I think I would consider a kick back siding from close to the 3 way splitting into 2 storage sidings and by having the turnout close to the 3 way it still leaves a head shunt  to shunt the wagons in and out, this would complicate the shunting and allow much more wagon storage which enhances the chance to complicate things.

 

I would also consider if you intend to have a works shunter to shuffle the wagons when the Big Railway engines aren't there as it would need some storage area when they return.

 

Keep it up and ask away, I'm sure that you will get replies as there is always someone who knows the answers.

[RobA2345]

Thanks for the feedback, I'm not sure I completely follow but I think we're talking about adding sidings to the left hand side of the layout. I've attached a couple of options as to how that might look, if I'm way off and completely misunderstood apologies in advance.

Option 1 doesn't leave any room on the left so I added option 2 to give space but option 2 wouldn't work in its current form due to the baseboard split. The 3-way tandem takes up significant real estate  and I figured I could only place it in its current position or after the baseboard split on the right.

 

I've made choices that are a struggle for a compact layout such as long wheel base stock, a B7 crossover (not sure what I was thinking there) etc so its definitely a challenge.

Regarding the second point I have a Class 08 I intend to work the yard (currently waiting for wheelset from Ultrascale) and a Class 20 to bring in delivery of the freight. The plan for the 08 was to wait in a siding if a train was being brought in and would have to wait until the incoming loco had departed, I had some idea of a larger industry or depot off scene.

[RobA2345]

So my effort at turnout operation is a bit on the crude side. I've just used the stretcher bars provided in the C&L kit and bent the brass rod around the pin of a Cobalt motor. I've tested the method and it works but I've seen some more elaborate solutions and I'm just wondering if anyone would object to this on their layout and the reasons why?

 

[jollysmart]

I was thinking as in the first plan but with the sidings more towards the front of the layout , the 08 could stay in the headhunt to the right and both loaded and empty wagons could be in the 2 new sidings. The wagons could be worked individually or in small numbers for unloading/loading and then  assembled into the other existing siding ready for the Big engine to remove. It certainly gives scope for more shunt moves, and plenty of running round.  

 

I'm sure there are people with more prototype knowledge but essentially my idea is to have fun and get the most moves with a few wagons. you could try the moves without the track just to get the idea.

 

[RobA2345]

9 hours ago, jollysmart said:

I'm sure there are people with more prototype knowledge but essentially my idea is to have fun and get the most moves with a few wagons. you could try the moves without the track just to get the idea.

 

Absolutely, prototype realism is secondary to operations with this one. I've attached another suggestion. This could happen as it doesn't change the existing track I have already laid aside from that last siding and the points wouldn't foul the baseboard break.

I've left the headshunt quite long here to give stock clearance past the point, even here with the VDA vans etc you would only get an 08 and 2 wagons in at a time.

[jollysmart]

That's what I meant but make the new sidings longer, each one at least as long as the headhunt they come off so that you can get a minimum of as many wagons + loco in the sidings as the headhunt will take, more length just increases the number of shunts to fill/empty them. 

[RobA2345]

Little update, I’ve sprayed the track matte black as a base coat of paint, I plan on doing some research before I decide on track colours and ballast.

 

Unfortunately my initial vision of the layout just isn’t going to work so while I decide what to do I figured I’d work on some stock. Ive been reading the Fryers Lane thread with interest because the time period the gentleman is modelling matches my stock. It was immediately apparent that the stock axle guards on the VDA and VBB vans are unsuitable for EM gauge as they are not wide enough once I’d eased the wheels out. I have a 3D printer so designed and printed my own, they need tweaking slightly but at least they work.

 

In the Fryers Lane thread the axle guards were replaced with etchings and with it being P4 they were sprung. Would there be any advantage to that for EM or would people say it’s unnecessary expense and time? I’m also considering fixing the guards in place as with this being a small end to end layout they really don’t need to pivot. 

[jollysmart]

I don't think in EM that suspension is a requirement as the tolerances, flanges etc are very similar to OO FS but it is easy to put the rocking unit in for EM. Mostly in EM you can get the clearance on the axle guards by removing a little material from the inside of the axle guards, P4 needs more space to allow for the suspension movement. The pivoting is normally for going round tight set track curves but you have relatively large radius pointwork.

 

Good job with the printed units.

 

The black has toned the track down nicely, have you decided on the ballasting yet?

Edited May 3, 2021 by jollysmart

[RobA2345]

I've not done anything with the track or scenery since I last updated this as I was unsure of the track plan some elements were bothering me and I was concerned I didn't have a clear idea of what I wanted. I've been working on some stock in the meantime while I waited for the Class 08's new wheels from Ultrascale (6 month lead time). I got the wheels and installed them and thought I would buy a cheap DCC chip just to get started with it only to discover that I'd somehow bought a non DCC model. Ultimately I wanted DCC sound for this loco so had to save some money to get what I really wanted for it so it now has a Zimo DCC sound chip installed with stay-alive capacitor from YouChoos. The loco exceeds expectation with it it works and sounds great. For an 08 shunter when you tally up the total cost (loco, wheelsets, sound chip, speaker, stay-alive) it's really not cheap at all but it should last me a lifetime I hope. It needs weathering and buffer beam detail adding but its had a coat if matt varnish and the chassis airbrushed with matt black and it looks great as is, just too clean.

 

As for the track plan I am set on some changes. Firstly I want to use Cassettes for the fiddle yard so with that I can remove the first point into the yard itself to give more room on entry. I'll move the point to create a kick back siding on the left of the layout. That will take time so in the meantime I'll try and plan what the scenery will be. I've had a go at visualising it but I have time to decide. I've attached a 3D model of what I have in mind so far.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by RobA2345

[RobA2345]

Stenson Models coupler and hook added. You don't want to know how many hours that took to build. Not sure about it since there is no more detail I can add to the buffer beam without a complete custom job of drilling holes in the model beam.

 

 

[RobA2345]

Weathered 

 

[steve1]

Have you considered joining the EM Gauge Society? Lots of help and support available there.

 

https://emgs.org/

 

steve

Edited September 26, 2021 by steve1

[RobA2345]

2 hours ago, steve1 said:

Have you considered joining the EM Gauge Society? Lots of help and support available there.

 

https://emgs.org/

 

steve

 

I did used to be a member but I can't say I got anything out of it. I cut my teeth in 2FS but I was frustrated with poor running stock so came back to 4mm just to have a layout where I can stunt around reliably while I build a 2mm layout on the workbench. In fact the only reason I went EM was because I couldn't get the OO bullhead track at the time but I'm glad I went EM because I've definitely skilled up a bit.

[RobA2345]

Warehouse structure shell progress. The 3d image is just for proportionality.

[RobA2345]

Oh and I decided my trackplan sucked so I'm currently redesigning it as per this thread. Track plan help - opinions welcome

 

Gives me a chance to redo the 3-way point as per this thread Tandem build query as a combination of being sent the wrong parts (maybe) and having never attempted one meant I got a couple of the crossings transposed and the geometry is a little off. It also gives me a chance to put a cassette system in.

[RobA2345]

Well I removed and re-laid the trackwork. None of the points survived in tact so I had to rebuild them so took about 3 weeks in all and a couple of days to rewire to make it operational.

Aesthetically I'm much happier with it, it just looks more natural and I got the chance to correct some mistakes from the first build.

Now for the hard part and that is creating a layout that is to exhibition standard. I've built track for years and can do that because the desired outcome is set and specific and I can follow instructions but when it comes to imagination required to build a layout of standard I'm afraid I'm lacking in this area. It's possible I just overthink it rather than going incrementally and changing what needs to be changed as I go along.

Looking for inspiration I like Alcanman's layouts on here and I also like the warehouse Universal Exports on Farkham as well as a lot of the HO content I see on YouTube such as this home layout from John 2618 and Glover Road by Boomer Dioramas. There are many more but these are just a handful that are along the lines of what I have in mind.

Anyway next step is painting the track, some areas will be concreated over so I'll tackle that this week.

[Enfys_Rainbow]

Personally I think this trackplan is far better - good effort!

[RobA2345]

A very messy update but I've done quite a lot and ideas have started to develop so thought I'd share.



I added some scupltamold to break up the flat on the front and painted it with earth undercoat. At the front I plan on having more concreated staging right up to the track inspired by this photo found on the "quaint small goods yards" thread. I like how the cars and huts are right up to the track.

I'm going for a manufacturing facility, something like toys or something similar which can be shipped as finished goods out from the warehouse at the end which is going to be a modern-ish warehouse. In the middle I've gone for the Walthers HO Pellet Transfer Facility which is on the same estate as the manufacturer but not necessarily the same industry and on the left will be an an old brick warehouse taking in refined fuel. I'm aware I might have to scale down these buildings to fit the HO kit but I'm happy to make that sacrifice. I don't know if this will work but thats the current thinking anyway.

In terms of track its been primed with Tamiya Matt Black which is an amazing pigment and perfect for building on to. I dry brushed light browns and light greys over that and then dusted with black chalk. I then ballasted using woodland scenics grey blend and brown and this is still a work in progress but 90% done. Now I do have to say I really don't like the colour of the ballast as they stand they contrast far too much so I'll be spending time trying to get the tone of these right so I plan on saturating it with watered down paint while trying to not spoil the work done on the track itself, not sure how I will do that yet.

[RobA2345]

Cleaned up and managed to run some stock. Unfortunately I only have 3 items of stock that will run without issues. I have 2 others but they will need modifying as the conversion to EM hasn't been successful.

The Class 08 that has been modified with sound and a large stay-alive is wonderful to move around, very satisfying. I'll get another if I can find one at a reasonable price.

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by RobA2345
typo

[RobA2345]

Ground cover added. I had to pull up a load of the plaster because I wasn't happy with how it went up to the outside rail and extended into a road. Just been experimenting with colours and textures. This is before the air brush comes out as I'm going to completely repaint the track and ballast to try and get the tone I'm looking for.

 

[RobA2345]

I think its starting to look like a layout now. I'm currently waiting for the static grass to come and I'm not sure I'm keeping that road as it is at the front and I'm unsure if I'm keeping the Walthers kit with the silos but I'm much happier with the track now the ballast has been toned down.

 

 

[RobA2345]

 

Bought these Accurascale JSA wagons, a bit out of era but Rule 1 and all that. The detail is amazing but very easy to break if not handled with extreme care, I need to repair a couple of dislodged parts but I honestly don't want to pick them up. Simple EM conversion so I'm very happy with them.

I've pre-ordered the Accurascale Distribution Sector Class 37 and I'm a bit nervous how that will take being handled but I guess we'll see. I also added some fencing to section off a bit of a scene. Still waiting very impatiently for the static grass to arrive, hopefully tomorrow.

Edited January 5, 2022 by RobA2345

[RobA2345]

Added some greenery, I didn’t want to overdo it and aside from adding some bushes and maybe some trees to the mound in the centre I think I’ll stop there. I’ve added some building shells to the left side of the layout and I have an idea of what I want to create there.