How to provide crossovers for a medium radius double junction

[Tallpaul69]

Good evening all you track experts!

I am trying to plan an 00 gauge double track junction using medium radius or Y points to fit in a restricted area on an expansion of a code 100  tracked layout.

 

A problem seems to be that Peco only make short crossovers in code 70?

I see that there are transition code 70 to code 100 rails, but surely adding these in will distort the geometry of the junction?

 

Any help or ideas considered (apart from building the expansion in code 70!)?

Many thanks

Paul

[Tallpaul69]

Ooops!

When I said code 70, I meant code 75!!

Cheers

Paul

[peach james]

Peco make SL-93 (Short Crossing), and SL-94 (Long Crossing), and ST250 (Set track Medium Crossing).  Any of them work for you?  These are all code 100, and Hattons indicate they have them.  (other choices exist...)

 

James

[Joseph_Pestell]

It is very difficult to make a double junction that works properly using commercially available track because you ideally need a curve through the diamond in one or both legs. That would also save you space as the diamond will be much shorter.

I am a little confused by the OP. For preference, would you prefer the extension to be Code 75 or Code 100. I think that I understand it, like James, you would prefer Code 100.

 

I am supposing that you are not keen to build for yourself. But there are folk here who could help you draw a Templot template which you could get built by a professional.

 

Can you post a trackplan with dimensions for us to look at solutions.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Joseph_Pestell
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[peterfgf]

Probably not a lot of help, but there was someone who was advertising quite complicated crossings built up from Peco components on eBay about a year ago.  They looked quite good (from a distance).

Peterfgf

[Flying Pig]

18 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

I am trying to plan an 00 gauge double track junction using medium radius or Y points to fit in a restricted area on an expansion of a code 100  tracked layout.

 

Which Y points are you thinking of using?  Only the small Y (SL-97) matches the short crossing but it has a tightish nominal radius of 24".  Ordinary medium points would need the long crossing, as would the large Y (SL-98).  Setrack is a different ballgame of course.

 

Comments about the lack of curvature through the crossing when using Peco items are correct but may not be important, particularly if the junction is hidden.

[Tallpaul69]

6 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

I am a little confused by the OP. For preference, would you prefer the extension to be Code 75 or Code 100. I think that I understand it, like James, you would prefer Code 100.

 

Trying to answer all the thoughts raised:-

Sorry, I thought it was clear that I wanted the extension in code 100!

But obviously not!

Hope it is clear now?

But of course, if the crossovers have to be code 75, then maybe the junctions will have to feature transition pieces. Luckily the junctions will be hidden so appearance will not matter too much, but while they will be reasonably accessible, reliable operation including large WR steam locos would be preferred! 

 

Small Ys seem to be the best bet. The nominal radius of 24ins would be ok as the radius of the inner curve before and after the junction will be 18ins, and that of the outer curve the normal Peco separation  on top of the 18ins. 

 

Anyway from other responses, it seems that there is no clear understanding of whether code 100 crossings are or are not available.

I will follow up the suggestion of Hattons, but my layout builders are being told by Peco that they do not produce code 100 short crossovers.

Whether that is a temporary or permanent situation, who knows!

Thanks to all who have replied.

Best regards

Paul 

[Tallpaul69]

21 hours ago, peach james said:

Peco make SL-93 (Short Crossing), and SL-94 (Long Crossing), and ST250 (Set track Medium Crossing).  Any of them work for you?  These are all code 100, and Hattons indicate they have them.  (other choices exist...)

 

James

Sorry James, but all Peco crossings except the long ones look just now to be on pre order (little blue logo top right of item). No telling when they will arrive!

Regards

Paul 

[irishmail]

12 minutes ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Sorry James, but all Peco crossings except the long ones look just now to be on pre order (little blue logo top right of item). No telling when they will arrive!

Regards

Paul 

Been waiting ages for Hattons to get more Peco points in,  Peco must still be trying to catch up with production after last years temporary shut down

[peach james]

If you are desperate for them, Credit Valley Railroad in Canada has at least one...
Otherwise, you are at the mercy of Peco making more- I had thought Hattons showed 2 in stock, but I could have been wrong, or someone else snaffled them up !

[Dungrange]

Harburn Hobbies, which is my local model railway shop, look like they have a short crossing (SL-93) in stock - https://www.harburnhobbies.co.uk/acatalog/info-643.html#SID=51.  They also appear to have the short Y points in both Insulfrog and Electrofrog variants.  In pre-COVID times they didn't list most of what they sell on their website, so they're probably not most people's go to shop when searching online.

 

 

[5BarVT]

Out of interest, have you specified insulfrog or electrofrog?

In code 100 Peco only make insulfrog crossings, so if it is essential that you have electrofrog on the crossings as well as points then code 75 is the only option for that junction.

To keep the geometry the same, you would need to use code 75 for the junction points too and do your transition on straight track clear of the junction area.  Are all your wheel sets compatible with code 75?

It is possible to convert peco 100 crossings to electrofrog, or pseudo electrofrog, but whether your layout builders would be happy to do that is a different matter. (!)

Out of interest, I run some old stock that shorts across the insulation on insulfrog so on my double junctions I’m looking at some fancy switching so that the insulation never has opposite polarity across it.  (Not yet sure if it’s going to be by isolation or by cutting rails and making then pseudo electrofrog, the latter giving the option of adding conductive paint too.)

Hope that helps,

Paul.

[ejstubbs]

14 hours ago, Dungrange said:

Harburn Hobbies...  In pre-COVID times they didn't list most of what they sell on their website, so they're probably not most people's go to shop when searching online.

 

IME with Harburn Hobbies it's always best to pick up the phone and give them a call.  They're always friendly and helpful, and they will check whether they have what you want in stock while you're on the line.

[Dungrange]

26 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

IME with Harburn Hobbies it's always best to pick up the phone and give them a call.  They're always friendly and helpful, and they will check whether they have what you want in stock while you're on the line.

 

I agree - I've never ordered anything from them on-line: I usually just go into the shop and buy in person.   However, in the past the products that they listed on-line tended to be limited to their own Harburn Hamlet range and the limited editions that they commission from Bachmann and the likes. They didn't previously list things like track, presumably because they didn't see a need or have a desire to try and compete with the large on-line retailers like Hattons.  However, the forced closure of retail premises have meant they have had to adapt to survive and have therefore used the time when they've been closed to list stock that they have that may be in short supply elsewhere.

 

However...

 

2 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Out of interest, have you specified insulfrog or electrofrog?

In code 100 Peco only make insulfrog crossings, so if it is essential that you have electrofrog on the crossings as well as points then code 75 is the only option for that junction.

 

I think this is the problem.  If the specification for the layout says Electrofrog throughout (including the diamond crossings) then that would explain why the builder has said they don't do them in Code 100.  It's not that Peco don't do a short crossing in Code 100, its that they don't do an Electrofrog version of the short crossing in Code 100.  That therefore means either changing the specification to be Electrofrog for the points, but Insulfrog for the diamond crossings, or alternatively, switch from Code 100 to Code 75 for the entire junction.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Dungrange

[Flying Pig]

19 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

But of course, if the crossovers have to be code 75, then maybe the junctions will have to feature transition pieces. Luckily the junctions will be hidden so appearance will not matter too much

 

Peco list a rail joiner SL-112 to connect code 100 and 75 directly.  

[Stephen Freeman]

I think the reason they do not do electrofrog diamond crossings is that it would be impossible to switch polarity of the frogs without the use of a switch etc

[ejstubbs]

As has been pointed out by 5BarVT above, Peco does offer 00 gauge electrofrog plain crossings (and slips) but only in code 75.  Having to switch the polarity of the 'frog'/common crossing is a complication, but by no means an unsurmountable obstacle.  For whatever reason, Peco has decided that code 100 users are unlikely to need electrofrog crossings, or to want the added complication of enforced frog polarity switching.  (Though they do offer an electrofrog three-way turnout in code 100, which also requires the frog polarity to be switched in order to work.  Go figure.)

[ejstubbs]

Just to add: I have had some success sourcing Peco items through the lockdowns by having a good dig around in Google, and on eBay. When Googling you basically have to follow each "hit" to see if the retailer in question actually has the item in stock.  I have also found retailers who have the odd one or two of an item I want listed on eBay; I prefer to buy new from a retailer rather than used from a random eBay seller (although I have bought the odd item from Rails of Sheffield's second-hand items eBay store).

 

What I've not found in the current situation is anything like keen pricing.  But if needs must, I'm resigned to paying anything up to list price + reasonable postage.  If they're taking the mick/gouging though, they can forget it - I'll manage without.