cypherman Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 (edited) Hi Johnster. It still could be the motor. A poorly running/working electric motor will spin with out a load on it. But once you put a load on it if there is no torque in the motor it. It will start to fail and stop. Also I assume that there is a magnet in this motor. Not to hot on the fully enclosed disposable motor. So could the magnet have lost some of it's power. Another point with possible dry joints. If it is in the motor. Running the motor out of the chassis lets it run freely. So less heat is caused. Once you run it under load it has to work harder and therefore gets hotter. So this may cause the joint to open. These are only suggestions. But as this is a mystery it could be anything. Edited May 28, 2021 by cypherman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted May 28, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2021 Hello cypherman That makes sense to me. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted May 28, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 28, 2021 3 hours ago, cypherman said: Hi Johnster. It still could be the motor. A poorly running/working electric motor will spin with out a load on it. But once you put a load on it if there is no torque in the motor it. It will start to fail and stop. Also I assume that there is a magnet in this motor. Not to hot on the fully enclosed disposable motor. So could the magnet have lost some of it's power. Another point with possible dry joints. If it is in the motor. Running the motor out of the chassis lets it run freely. So less heat is caused. Once you run it under load it has to work harder and therefore gets hotter. So this may cause the joint to open. These are only suggestions. But as this is a mystery it could be anything. Or could be a winding gone open circuit. i.e. one out of the 3 or 5. Usually this makes them difficult to start, rather than run for a short while then stop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted May 28, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2021 Thanks Kevin She starts and runs up to the 'new' maximum speed smoothly. All very puzzling! Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted May 28, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2021 @BMacdermott Hi Brian, Could you make a video of the behaviour and post it here so we can see it for ourselves? That might give someone a new clue. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted May 28, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2021 Hello everyone I have managed to order a new motor (only) direct from Hornby and will report back. I felt the £10 or so plus post was worth a go. Brian 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted June 5, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2021 Hello everyone Many thanks for all your comments... I am pleased to say that the new motor arrived from Hornby and - after a bit of 'test wiring' to see which wires connected where without the DCC sockets etc - the loco is up and running! Brian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted June 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2021 Good news, Brian; a loco restored to service at an acceptable cost! I like a happy ending. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherman Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 Hi Brian, So it was the motor in the end. Just goes to show that you cannot trust testing a motor by putting power to it. It needs to be put under some king of load to make sure it runs ok. Glad it has all worked out well for you. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted June 5, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2021 Hello cypherman I can't be 100% certain but the evidence seems to stack in that direction. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted June 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2021 And will continue to do so for as long as the new motor runs, but you will be keeping a close eye on this for many years; that's how your subconcious works when you aren't concious of it working, which is sort of what subconcious says on the tin. I was certainly fooled in my assessment of the situation by the fact that the motor ran well when not under load, but could not even power the chassis, which is nothing like a the full load of 8 or 9 coaches you might expect a Hornby Grange to be able to manage. To my mind, the problem had to be in the drive train or the chassis, or a mystery part-short, as you'd proved unequivocally that the motor was a good 'un. I was wrong and hold my hand up to it; my ill-informed ramblings may have cost you the use of the loco for a couple of uneccessary weeks. Please accept my unreserved apology; Cypherman is right and I'm not! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherman Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, The Johnster said: And will continue to do so for as long as the new motor runs, but you will be keeping a close eye on this for many years; that's how your subconcious works when you aren't concious of it working, which is sort of what subconcious says on the tin. I was certainly fooled in my assessment of the situation by the fact that the motor ran well when not under load, but could not even power the chassis, which is nothing like a the full load of 8 or 9 coaches you might expect a Hornby Grange to be able to manage. To my mind, the problem had to be in the drive train or the chassis, or a mystery part-short, as you'd proved unequivocally that the motor was a good 'un. I was wrong and hold my hand up to it; my ill-informed ramblings may have cost you the use of the loco for a couple of uneccessary weeks. Please accept my unreserved apology; Cypherman is right and I'm not! Hey Johnster, Some times you are right and some times you are wrong. That's life. You have in the passed answered questions for me that I was sure I had the right answer for and I was absolutely wrong. That's why we are here to help each other out when we can. To my mind there is no apology needed and I do not think Brian will have any difference of opinion either. And we have all learnt something. Never trust a Hornby motor......lol. And you are dead right about waiting for it to go belly up again. Edited June 5, 2021 by cypherman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted June 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2021 I have never had a problem with a modern can motor, though I accept that they have a service life; I'm nearly 70 and reckon that on my small BLT with light loads this is an academic point in my case. But Brian's case has dented my confidence in my process of elimination fault finding, and I cost his loco service time, so felt it right to offer an apology even if it is not considered necessary by others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted June 6, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 6, 2021 9 hours ago, cypherman said: Hey Johnster, Some times you are right and some times you are wrong. That's life. You have in the passed answered questions for me that I was sure I had the right answer for and I was absolutely wrong. That's why we are here to help each other out when we can. To my mind there is no apology needed and I do not think Brian will have any difference of opinion either. And we have all learnt something. Never trust a Hornby motor......lol. And you are dead right about waiting for it to go belly up again. The only way to 100% 'prove' a motor as faulty, is to fit a replacement. Which Brian has done. Now as to cause, the suggestion is heat somehow. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 Or maybe, just maybe, some of the smoke that makes electrical things work, has escaped. You often see this with electronics. Apply power, a puff of smoke escapes, snd that's it: it'll never work again because you can't put the smoke back in. 1 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted June 6, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 6, 2021 Hello Johnster and everyone No need for apologies at all, I fully assure you! No doubt there would be 'an electrical expert' somewhere who could wire up the old motor into various test configurations but - in my view - all's well that ends well. I now have the benefit of two locos at an overall cost of under £100, whereas my original dilemma was 'one dead one' heading to eBay. All the best and thanks again to all who wrote in. Much appreciated! Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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