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Guards buzzer sound on DCC


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Posted (edited)

Ok so this is somethinf that's been rattling around in my skull for a while now, and that is whether the guards buzzer sound on DCC, especially powere doored multiple units is really necessary. I would say not.

The logic behind this is that where the eyeball is in relation to the train is some distance, the equivalent of on the second floor of a building overlooking the station modelled location. Would you really be able to hear it from there? Very unlikely, unless it's a buzzer so loud that the crew ought to be defecting it.

 

It's just something that amuses me, I mean it's one of those things that  is nice to have, but...

 

What are people's thoughts on this?

Edited by The Evil Bus Driver
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With so many sound slots available, why not?

Biff's class 66 has wiper sounds. I can't imagine anyone other than the driver being able to hear this.

 

If we get to a point where more functions are required & some have to be dropped, then maybe this will be one of the first to go?

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3 minutes ago, The Evil Bus Driver said:

Ok so this is somethinf that's been rattling around in my skull for a while now, and that is whether the guards buzzer sound on DCC, especially powere doored multiple units is really necessary. I would say not.

The logic behind this is that where the eyeball is in relation to the train is some distance, the equivalent of on the second floor of a building overlooking the station modelled location. Would you really be able to hear it from there? Very unlikely, unless it's a buzzer so loud that the crew ought to be defecting it.

 

It's just something that amuses me, I mean it's one of those things that  is nice to have, but...

 

What are people's thoughts on this?

 

It something that irritates me you simply can't hear it from any distance away from the train 

Imagine how loud it would be in the cab!

I've not got any DMU sound chips yet.

Paul Chetter has  done a good one with realistic BR style gear changes not the slow preservation ones. I can appreciate why they want to make their gearboxes last longer but from a point of view from a BR era modeller I would want it as I remember changing gear with them 

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1 minute ago, Pete the Elaner said:

With so many sound slots available, why not?

Biff's class 66 has wiper sounds. I can't imagine anyone other than the driver being able to hear this.

 

If we get to a point where more functions are required & some have to be dropped, then maybe this will be one of the first to go?

 

Wiper sounds!!! Bloody irritating at work with noisy ones , any loco doing that on my layout would be a likely candidate as a victim of the hammer of shame !

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Many sounds which can only be heard on board the train are now included on chips. I imagine they will become the stuff of nostalgia  in years to come. However they are complicated to operate as they require lists for each item of rolling stock so I suspect most are rarely used. I have a few sound equipped  locos but other than maybe a whistle or flange squeal I usually just let the chip do it’s own thing. 

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Posted (edited)

Heh yeah I have very few locos chipped at the moment but hopefully once things unlock again and my partner can get a job I should be able to start DCC-ing stuff. Then it'll be a case of what would be heard from that distance.

55 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Wiper sounds!!! Bloody irritating at work with noisy ones , any loco doing that on my layout would be a likely candidate as a victim of the hammer of shame !

i know. I drive buses and the problem is the same but with much bigger wipers

 

I hear  you on the gear changes. I would imagine BR drivers used to slam through the gears but as you say preservation drivers want to drive more, how shall I put it. defensively? But I can understand that as gearboxes are not as plentiful as they once were. Again, it's the same with a semi-automatic bus, not pausing for two seconds in Neutral will eventually cook the gearbox.

Edited by The Evil Bus Driver
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This year's Bachmann release of the Class 121 Bubble car ( 35-525SF) has two options for the guard's buzzer and I wonder if someone more knowledgable could explain what the code meant.

 

I am old enough to remember when buses had conductors who indicated to the driver by the bell code. One ring meant a passenger wished to alight at the next stop, two rings meant he could proceed as passengers had finished loading (not necessarily safely seated) and three rings meant the bus was loaded to capacity and not to stop for any more passengers.

 

I suppose the same code might apply on lines with unmanned stations where trains only stop by request.

 

The Bachmann bubble car has 28 functions available, several of which are unlikely to be used by me but F12 and F13 relate to the buzzer.

F12 - On - Guard’s Single Buzzer / Off - Driver’s Single Buzzer Response

F13 - On - Guard’s Double Buzzer / Off - Driver’s Double Buzzer Response

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3 minutes ago, Riddles said:

This year's Bachmann release of the Class 121 Bubble car ( 35-525SF) has two options for the guard's buzzer and I wonder if someone more knowledgable could explain what the code meant.

 

I am old enough to remember when buses had conductors who indicated to the driver by the bell code. One ring meant a passenger wished to alight at the next stop, two rings meant he could proceed as passengers had finished loading (not necessarily safely seated) and three rings meant the bus was loaded to capacity and not to stop for any more passengers.

 

I suppose the same code might apply on lines with unmanned stations where trains only stop by request.

 

The Bachmann bubble car has 28 functions available, several of which are unlikely to be used by me but F12 and F13 relate to the buzzer.

F12 - On - Guard’s Single Buzzer / Off - Driver’s Single Buzzer Response

F13 - On - Guard’s Double Buzzer / Off - Driver’s Double Buzzer Response

Four rings on a bus was emergency stop.

Southern had a list, it's almost morse code. there's one that is 3-3-3, things like set back or not release the doors etc

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56 minutes ago, Riddles said:

The Bachmann bubble car has 28 functions available, several of which are unlikely to be used by me but F12 and F13 relate to the buzzer.

F12 - On - Guard’s Single Buzzer / Off - Driver’s Single Buzzer Response

F13 - On - Guard’s Double Buzzer / Off - Driver’s Double Buzzer Response

 

One buzz = stop (probably only used for request stops or in case the train needed to stop anywhere other than a signal or timetabled station stop - e.g. letting a track crew off mid section).

Two buzzes = clear to start (i.e. doors closed, signal clear to proceed)

 

They'd be acknowledged - a station start would be two buzzes from the guard, followed by two in acknowledgement from the driver.

 

See the full set at the bottom of this page:

http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Hall_Royd_Trains/Class_104_guards_van.html

 

Steven B.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Hibelroad said:

Many sounds which can only be heard on board the train are now included on chips. I imagine they will become the stuff of nostalgia  in years to come. However they are complicated to operate as they require lists for each item of rolling stock so I suspect most are rarely used. I have a few sound equipped  locos but other than maybe a whistle or flange squeal I usually just let the chip do it’s own thing. 

IMO the best (only?) two sound projects that allow for long manual gear changes are:

 

Paul Chetter's from Digitrains (the ProtoDrive version).

 

Legomanbiffo's Class 117/121.

 

Even though both these projects feature lots of different sounds, many would never be heard from even a short distance outside of the train.

 

I just use horns, flange squeal, stationery engine rev up, passenger doors slamming and platform dispatch whistle.

 

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6 hours ago, russ p said:

Paul Chetter has  done a good one with realistic BR style gear changes not the slow preservation ones. I can appreciate why they want to make their gearboxes last longer but from a point of view from a BR era modeller I would want it as I remember changing gear with them 

Exactly Russ.  Most of the projects available up till recently had annoyingly short gentle changes through the gears which are not realistic at all, obviously because they were recorded on preserved railways - maximum 25 mph!).

 

But with Paul's and Bif's latest you can now get much longer revs between gear changes.  On Paul's you even get the choice of shunting mode (F6), lightly loaded mode (F5) as alternatives to the default "normal" heavy acceleration mode.

 

No connection with these two suppliers, just a happy customer pleased to have decent first generation sounds at last!

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7 hours ago, Steven B said:

 

One buzz = stop (probably only used for request stops or in case the train needed to stop anywhere other than a signal or timetabled station stop - e.g. letting a track crew off mid section).

Two buzzes = clear to start (i.e. doors closed, signal clear to proceed)

 

They'd be acknowledged - a station start would be two buzzes from the guard, followed by two in acknowledgement from the driver.

 

See the full set at the bottom of this page:

http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Hall_Royd_Trains/Class_104_guards_van.html

 

Steven B.

 

 

 

 

It's a while now but when the whitby branch had request stops I think it two one . If one was sounded it was one held long so the driver stopped ASAP 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 07/06/2021 at 17:40, cravensdmufan said:

 

 

Paul Chetter's from Digitrains (the ProtoDrive version).

 

 

 

I've been looking for this on the Digitrains website but can only find Protodrive for the 150 Sprinter?  I've mostly had Digitrains sounds for locos and been very impressed so would be really keen on a DMU one, do you know what they're calling it?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Generalising somewhat:  the sounds of a passing loco or train as heard by a bystander at the platform or nearby can differ considerably from the sounds heard by someone on board - in the cab, or as a passenger in a coach. Perhaps the next stage in sounds for diesel traction is decoders for alternative scenarios (perhaps a single decoder with a CV).

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I think that many USA makers include cab/radio chatter that unless you are sat with a scanner you will never hear.

 

On a DMU a few door slams followed by the guard or station staff whistle is more appropriate than the buzzer.  Unless you are sat inside next to the door the guard is at then you can't hear it.

 

Active drive on DMU

https://www.digitrains.co.uk/zsdmua.html

 

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