Gresley B17 vs Stanier Jubilee

[1165Valour]

I've become interested recently in comparing engines of the Big Four companies that could be said to fill similar roles. As several people have already compared Thompson's B1s with the Black Fives, I wanted to compare the B17s with the Stanier Jubilees.

 

The B17s were introduced by Gresley to fill a desperate need on the Great Eastern lines for a fast passenger engine that could fit a relatively restrictive loading gauge. They seem to have been quite successful from the beginning, but they had less success when introduced to places farther north, such as Sheffield and Leicester (evidently they were disappointing at hill-climbing). It seems the B17s were very good engines, but they never had as much success as they did on the Great Eastern lines.

 

The Jubilees had a rough start when first introduced, and would not become a real success until some modifications were made. They were the main express engine on the Midland Main Line, but they were also present on other lines, including the West Coast Main Line, Settle-Carlisle line, and Huddersfield line.

[billbedford]

The B17s were more or less designed by North British Loco Co. so it may be more apposite to compare the with the Royal Scots designed by the same company. 

[31A]

I was a bit surprised to read recently that the B17s as originally built only came out as Class 4P in the BR classification system, although the ones rebuilt with higher pressure boilers made it into Class 5P.

 

[pH]

4 hours ago, billbedford said:

The B17s were more or less designed by North British Loco Co. so it may be more apposite to compare the with the Royal Scots designed by the same company. 

It all depends on what you want to compare. 
 

2 hours ago, 31A said:

I was a bit surprised to read recently that the B17s as originally built only came out as Class 4P in the BR classification system, although the ones rebuilt with higher pressure boilers made it into Class 5P.

 

 

That shows that you probably can’t really compare on power and resulting performance. The Jubilees were originally power class 5X, later upgraded to class 6. Scots were class 6, upgraded to class 7.

[1165Valour]

It seems both were solid designs, though the Jubilees and Royal Scots were able to work in different areas. On the other hand, the 61673 website says the engines were well-liked on the GC Section, which conflicts with what LNER Encyclopedia. This may be evidence they were able to perform well away from the GE Section after all.

[bike2steam]

B17 popular with GC crews? Depends who you talk to! The B17/6 was a big improvement on earlier versions, but not to the standard of 'Jubilees..

[A Murphy]

When introduced to the GC section in the mid thirties, initially for the Liverpool Harwich boat trains, B17s did not go down at all well with Gorton crews, according to E M Johnston. They replaced D11s, Directors, Gorton built and looked after and popular with most GC enginemen, which may account for some of the attitude. They were notorious for rough riding after they had been out of shops a while.

 

It would be interesting to know how ex GE crews took to them?

 

Best wishes,

 

Alastair M

[Zomboid]

2 hours ago, bike2steam said:

The B17/6 was a big improvement on earlier versions, but not to the standard of 'Jubilees..

A direct comparison is a bit pointless really. The real question is how well did each type do at the work for which it was intended?

 

You wouldn't really directly compare a McLaren 570S with a Ford Ranger; they're built to do different things, and neither would be much good at the others' work.