Didcot Newbury & Southampton line

[KeithMacdonald]

4 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Given where Betjeman lived in the Vale (Uffington), it seems a sensible way of travelling to France. A change at Didcot much better than the hassle of getting between London termini.

 

I'd have loved to hear the station announcer.

 

This is Didcot, change here for Southampton, Dieppe and Paris. ... Ici Didcot, changez ici pour Southampton, Dieppe et Paris. Nous nous excusons d'avance pour le niveau de la restauration jusqu'à Dieppe.

[Siberian Snooper]

15 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

@Andy Kirkham - thanks, that's a lovely memory, what are the odds of bumping to John Betjeman in such a setting?

 

GWR Org UK has a splendid article : "A Beginner's Guide to GWR outside-frame 4-4-0s, by Jim Champ"

 

Almost at the end, it mentions that:

 

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/no440s.html

 

Who would have expected we have historical accuracy on our side for running City of Truro down a modelled section of the DN&S?

 

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/c061-city-of-truro-587

or

http://www.locomotionmodels.com/exclusive-models/steam-locomotives/gwr-city-class-3717-city-of-truro.htm

 

Does Bachman still produce 31-725NRMC. 3717 "City Of Truro"?

 

 

 

 

Harold Gasson was fireman on her and I think his father was the driver, which I think was against the rules.

 

 

[Northroader]

For Kingsworthy, you could use the signal diagram to get an idea of the layout, this is the one before the WW2 loop lengthening:

[Northroader]

Thinking about Betjeman going to France, there wasn’t a cross channel service from Southampton to Dieppe, the railway services from Southampton, LSWR/SR, were to the Channel Islands or St. Malo. Dieppe is a bit too far to the East.

[bécasse]

On 25/06/2021 at 10:03, Nick Gough said:

The DN&S didn't have a through platform line at Didcot - the main station building was in the way.

Instead the line ended as an east facing bay. After closure this area became the original station car park.

 

There was a corresponding, west facing, bay at the other end of the down main platform that was used by the long gone Didcot-Swindon stopping trains.

 

The chronology is wrong, Didcot - Newbury closed before the Didcot - Swindon stopping trains were withdrawn.

[KeithMacdonald]

28 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Thinking about Betjeman going to France, there wasn’t a cross channel service from Southampton to Dieppe, the railway services from Southampton, LSWR/SR, were to the Channel Islands or St. Malo. Dieppe is a bit too far to the East.

 

Perhaps change at Southampton for the Brighton and Newhaven connection? On the old Exeter - Salisbury - Brighton train. Change again at Brighton, for the connection to Newhaven and the Dieppe ferry.

 

Perhaps that's why Mrs Betjeman wasn't happy.

Edited June 29, 2021 by KeithMacdonald
Perhaps

[KeithMacdonald]

In honour of John Betjeman ...

 

Men of Steam

Quote

First transmitted in 1962, John Betjeman presents a documentary exploring the impact of the removal of steam locomotives from British railway services on the railway men who have maintained the system since the days of the Great Western Railway. The introduction of diesel engines meant a real departure from usual operational practices for the railway men who had dedicated their entire working lives to operating the iconic steam locomotive

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0120330/in-view-men-of-steam

 

A Branch Line Railway with John Betjeman
 

Quote

 

First transmitted in 1963, John Betjeman looks at the Evercreech Junction to Burnham-on-Sea railway line in Somerset. Betjeman provides a unique profile of a working steam branch line railway as he travels along the original part of the Somerset Central Railway. Examining towns and stations along the way, Betjeman laments the tragic decline of steam railways. The journey culminates with a stroll around Highbridge Wharf, sentimentally narrated with a poem that sums up Betjeman's despair; 'Highbridge Wharf, your hopes have died...'.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03495yn/lets-imagine-a-branch-line-railway-with-john-betjeman

 

Mrs Betjeman was probably glad he didn't choose a Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway route (via Bath and Blandford Forum) to the Poole to Cherbourg ferry.

[Andy Kirkham]

38 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

In honour of John Betjeman ...

 

Men of Steam

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0120330/in-view-men-of-steam

 

A pretty amazing opening scene: 7037 Swindon departs Bath on an Up train; then D0260 Lion just happens to arrive on a Down train. I'm not sure I've ever seen a picture of D0260 on the Western Region before.

[KeithMacdonald]

20 minutes ago, Andy Kirkham said:

A pretty amazing opening scene: 7037 Swindon departs Bath on an Up train; then D0260 Lion just happens to arrive on a Down train. I'm not sure I've ever seen a picture of D0260 on the Western Region before.

 

@Andy Kirkham - thanks for mentioning that, when I looked at the video (not too carefully) I'd assumed it was a Brush 4 / Class 47 !

[KeithMacdonald]

I'd better get a move on and complete the Southern section of the DN&S.

 

Winchester to Shawford

 

 

It crosses the River Itchen before merging with the South Western main line about one Km north of Shawford.

 

 

I can't find anything remarkable about Shawford. Does it have any claims to fame?

 

Quote

The station was featured briefly in a 1974 film starring Sophia Loren, an unsuccessful and now little-seen remake of Brief Encounter.

 

Well, I'm not surprised. Even with Sophia Loren and Richard Burton in it, who could get passionate about a concrete station and a BR(S) 3-car DEMU? The original was much better with Celia Johnson and Trevor Howard, and a steamy encounter with an LMS steam train on Carnforth railway station.

 

Anything else?

 

Quote

 

In 2000, Shawford was used on the final episode of the BBC TV series One Foot in the Grave. The character Victor Meldrew is seen walking from the steps down from the station platform. He then stands in front of the station sign, waiting to be picked up, before being run over by a car.

 

 

I do not believe it!

[Joseph_Pestell]

10 hours ago, Northroader said:

Thinking about Betjeman going to France, there wasn’t a cross channel service from Southampton to Dieppe, the railway services from Southampton, LSWR/SR, were to the Channel Islands or St. Malo. Dieppe is a bit too far to the East.

 

Not sure how Dieppe got into this. Behrend mentioned Le Havre.

 

We are not told the year but there were certainly Southampton - Le Havre services in that era.

[Mikkel]

6 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Winchester to Shawford

 

If I had the space I'd be very tempted to do a layout featuring Winchester, Bar End yard and topping it off with the Shawford Viaduct. Would make some interesting traffic I think - and not just passenger trains either.

 

T.B. Sands, in "The Didcot, Newbury and Southampton Railway" (Oakwood Press 1971, p30), writes:

 

"A scissors crossing just south of the station [Winchester], dividing the running line to Shawford Junction from the track leading to the engine shed and goods yard at Bar End, was the official exchange point for traffic passing between the G.W.R. and the L.S.W.R.. Engines of the latter company worked freight train trips as required between Eastleigh and Chesil, took the trains into the goods yard at Bar End and helped with the shunting there. These trains could reach the yard either via the scissors crossing at Chesil, or the south end of the yard where the G.W.R. had a ground frame controlling the connection with the Shawford Junction line. Great Western staff recorded for the Railway Clearing House the numbers of all wagons exchanged at Winchester in alternate months with the L.S.W.R staff at Eastleigh. 

 

South of Bar End goods yard the Shawford Junction line curved round the foot of St. Catherine's Hill and then swung over to the west side of the valley across the Shawford vidauct, a red brick structure, built strictly to single line width, 2014 ft long and 40 ft. high at maximum to the top of the parapet. The junction with the main line was controlled from a signal box of L.S.W.R. pattern lying in the angle between main line and branch close to milepost 69. Track, signals and lineside equipment of the Shawford Junction line were all of L.S.W.R. standard type making it in outward appearance indistinguishable from any other part of that railway."

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Mikkel

[KeithMacdonald]

After Shawford, the next station was Eastleigh

 

 

The station is almost lost from sight in the middle of the LSWR / Southern Carriage and Wagon Works.

 

 

For those that would like a trackplan, hmm, I'll put it on the "to-do" list (a long way down).

[Hal Nail]

On 25/06/2021 at 10:07, Oldddudders said:

Under the M3. Think green protestors and Swampy.

Maybe I'm morbid but I always think of the plaque pits they didnt fancy digging up, hence the controversial alternatives!

 

Off topic but a fascinating thread. Having grown up in Southampton, I've walked the viaduct near the junction with the LSWR and had a look at Chesil but otherwise largely ignored this line.

 

Shawford's claim to fame is the UK's mudiest footpath. I'm usually walking North to the station and it never fails to annoy me that close to the destination.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Hal Nail

[Harlequin]

I recently used Hermitage (pre doubling) mixed with elements of Highclere and a dash of Compton as the pattern for a small track plan. This was not because of my personal connection with Hermitage but just because the goods yard behind the platforms makes a nice compact plan that's suited to a model. The genetic resemblance of most of the stations along the line is fascinating and makes it easier to mix and match elements to hopefully capture the character of the line:

• The left hand end of the station is very much like Highclere, including the elevated Stationmaster's garden.
• The standard (delightful) DN&SR station building works for many of the locations and I've scaled the plan from the Karau, Parsons, Robertson book.
• The standard passing loop between platforms with bi-directional entry to the goods yard. (I've shown a diamond crossing rather than a slip, which I think is correct pre doubling.)
• Board crossing rather than footbridge.
• Waiting shelter in the middle of the opposite platform.
• Trackbed and infrastructure ready for double track even though only single is laid.
• Dedicated facilities for loading horses.
• Woodland and rolling farmland all around.

Great fun! I wish I was there...

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Harlequin

[KeithMacdonald]

I'm sure I'm not the only RMWeb contributer that's had to rebuild their topic after the epic RMWeb webserver disaster, but I've just found a backup of my own that had most of the images. Posts that I've been able to fix now have the edit comment "RMWeb image disaster recovery"

[Miss Prism]

Keith - does that mean you don't have the images that are still missing?  (I've only just discovered this thread.)

 

[KeithMacdonald]

14 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

Keith - does that mean you don't have the images that are still missing?

 

Sadly, that's correct.

[daveyb]

On 25/06/2021 at 13:02, KeithMacdonald said:

Hermitage Station

 

This is the last station in this section before we get to Newbury.

 

 

Which version would you like?

 

1890

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18&lat=51.45025&lon=-1.27253&layers=168&b=1

 

 

 

1933

https://maps.nls.uk/view/104197630

 

 

 

 

Those do appear on the 1960 1:10,560 OS map

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=51.44964&lon=-1.27669&layers=193&b=1

 

 

 

But with very little detail. is that two sidings, passing either side of the same building? Comparing the size of what looks like the "cold store" to the station, it seems to be pretty big. The Village Design Statement for Hermitage gives us a clue:

 

 

http://info.westberks.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=35719&p=0

 

Enough to model an approximate layout? More "plain brown GWR vans" delivering who knows what? @CME and Bottlewasher is the person to ask

 

The WW2 depot mentioned is still a barracks and was until recently the home of Royal Engineers geographic and topographic services (14 Geo Regt RE) but is now home to 77Brigade HQ. It was redeveloped in the 70s after one of the many 1960s post National Service plans. 

 

If you think transport policy has been short sighted, ill-conceived, short-lived and without any focus, have a look at Defence planning!

 

Hermitage was one of the possible relocation points for Vauxhall Barracks in Didcot, which is a remnant of Central Ordnance Depot Didcot (closed in 1963 to build the power station recently demolished). But in one of the reviews of the last 10 years, 77 Bde were new and shiny and Didcot was completely forgotten... Literally forgotten! We called the chaps at Army HQ when they released the re-basing plan in 2014/5 to be told we didn't exist and had been closed years ago... Vauxhall Barracks is still there!

Edited October 17, 2022 by daveyb
Typing

[KeithMacdonald]

On 25/06/2021 at 20:51, Harlequin said:

Before the line closed my Dad recorded a train running in the dead of night accompanied by a nightingale singing in the woods. Just thinking about it sends shivers down my spine! I have that recording somewhere and one day I will digitise it and share it with everyone.

 

@Harlequin - thank you for your kind offer - it would be a pleasure and a privilege to hear that.

[Harlequin]

9 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

@Harlequin - thank you for your kind offer - it would be a pleasure and a privilege to hear that.

I bought a reel-to-reel tape recorder on eBay and started working through my Dad's old tapes but about halfway through, and having not yet found that recording, it failed.

 

I suspect a broken drive belt but I haven't had time to investigate yet.

 

☹️

[KeithMacdonald]

On 25/06/2021 at 15:48, KeithMacdonald said:

The fairs were not interrupted by the advent of the railways: special trains arrived, 30-40 wagons long, at Compton, and the beasts were walked less than 2 miles to Ilsley.  It was road transport that killed the fair, in 1934.

 

Although an online guide to Compton says:

 

Quote

 In the nineteenth century the railway was built from the market town of Newbury to the Great Western Railway depot at Didcot. Compton Station became an important centre for the passage of sheep going to and from East Ilsley sheep fair, which used to be the largest in England. Pens were erected in the station sidings to hold animals in transit. Following the decline of the wool industry in the 1960s, the railway closed.

 

https://www.westberks.gov.uk/media/36677/Compton-Walking-in-West-Berkshire-Leaflet-Number-1/pdf/Compton_-_Walking_in_West_Berkshire_Leaflet_Number_1.pdf?m=637735168276430000

 

I wonder what kind of wagons were used, and where the special trains came from?

Edited October 17, 2022 by KeithMacdonald

[D860 VICTORIOUS]

Hi Keith,

What a fascinating thread,on a railway which probably very few remember now.

I have the Middleton Press book on the line,which has a photo taken near Winnall.I used to work on the Winnall Ind. Estate,and can recall,further down Easton Lane,the bridge over the line as it headed out of Winchester.I'd imagine the cutting has long since been filled in.Pictures of the line in that area are hard to find.

It's a pleasant walk from Shawford along the Itchen into Winchester,and after passing beneath the M3 part of the trackbed is used,with a rail overbridge along the way.As I expect you know,Hockley Viaduct was opened up some time ago as part of a cycleway,and I've often paused on the viaduct and imagined crossing it by train and seeing the fine view towards Winchester.Best not to look the other way at the M3...

A line from a different era,and how good it would be to take a rail journey along the route...

Neil

 

[KeithMacdonald]

Thanks to the diligent work of Michael Clemens, saving loads of WTT.

http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=611

 

From that, on pages 143 and 144 of SECTION 3 FROM 26FEB49 C.pdf, we have a copy of the timetable for the line in 1949. It gives a good insight into the kind of activity on the line.

 

UP trains

05.25 freight (originating in Taunton)

06.45 Newbury to Didcot - first passenger train of the day

07.05 passenger Winchester to Newbury (looks like GWR only)

08.08 passenger (was 07.32 from Southampton), arriving as SR, Winchester to Didcot

08.43 freight  (was 07.00 from Eastleigh) Winchester to Didcot

10.13 passenger (was 09.36 from Southampton), Winchester to Newbury

12.04 passenger (was 11.28 from Southampton), Winchester to Didcot

12.40 a slow freight from Kings Worthy, looks like it has loads of stops, not reaching Didcot until 20.28

13.25 - a curiosity! Tavistock to Banbury, via Newbury and Didcot? Seems like a long way round?

14.37 passenger (was 11.28 from Southampton), Winchester to Didcot

16.45 (SR ex Eastleigh) Winchester to Didcot

18.20 freight from Kings Worthy, reaching Didcot 21.20

20.13 Winchester - arriving Didcot 21.00? some mistake Shirely?

 

[KeithMacdonald]

The down trains (as you might have guessed) were just as sparce.

 

Morning timetable.

Another Banbury curiosity - 10pm Banbury to Hackney, via Didcot and Newbury.

 

 

Afternoon timetable

A couple more Southampton pasenger trains, one all the way from Oxford.