9F Triang Hornby - 50 years old

[locomad2]

Someone once said to us, "Golden age of something is always 25 years ago", to me model railways its 50 years. Then in my early teens already planning my own layout building Superquick, Airfix wagon kits, and some K's & Wills . So late 1971 after a lull of new locomotives with great excitement it was announced that Triang Hornby was bringing out a 9F, so that was my Xmas present.

 

Railway modeller review at the time 

 

 

I wasn't disappointed, shinning, stunning in a large box, and great performance on the track, able with ease to pull anything and not stall on the insulated points running at  slow speed. At the time the future looked good, tender drive could be used for future models, unfortunately that didn't happen, the later Black 5 just didn't match the 9F performance. In about 1975 Model Railway Constructor did review of haulage capacity the early 9F clearly out performed other locomotive, later thanks to the Pat Hammond book it turned out Hornby couldn't use the early motor due to costs and patents ?

 

And my loco, that remained a popular locomotive on all layouts since, in almost regular use, some 5 years ago did some real haulage tests with real model railway stock and not weights, and this did just  achieve the 100 wagon challenge

 

 

 

[33C]

I really coveted this model when it first came out but had to make do with the Airfix kit, until my future wife made my Christmas with the 1982/3 B.R.Black version AND a "Smokey Joe"! They were all keepers! 

[kernowtim]

I remember being unimpressed with the performance of a school friends Hornby 9F many years ago, although I think it had the later ringfield motor tender drive, Eventually I bought the Bachmann model which then cost around £90, my latest 9F is the splendid Ace O gauge version, sadly Evening star was sold out so I had to settle for black! 

Edited November 5, 2021 by kernowtim

[kernowtim]

[RedgateModels]

It's only weakness is the tender frame, paper thin and susceptible to mineral oil attack. Pretty much unobtanium as a spare too, although I do have a second generation pin contact one that can be backdated pretty easily..... 

[Titan]

IIRC the early ones had a Fleischmann motor. Ten wheel pick up on the loco, six wheel drive tender with traction tyres on all six.  It was somewhat of a performance downgrade when the Hornby Ringfield replaced it.

[Legend]

I must be of similar vintage as Locomad 2. I got my black 9f at Christmas 1974.  I remember seeing two on Renfrewshire MRCs layount "Elderslie" at the Paisley Town Hall exhibition in November  and had been very impressed watching them smoothly shunt the yard (very unprototypical for a layout set in Scotland , but it was the 70s with limited options).  The local shop "Variety Stores " had one in their Hornby display in their window . It must have been old stock because it was really only in the catalogue in 73.  Anyway  I told my Mum about it and sometime after it disappeared from the display .  It was my Christmas present and I loved it!

 

My layout was a mixture of system 6 and super 4 with converter tracks . I had nothing but trouble with my older locos Princess, B12,Jinty, Brush 2  but the 9F was a revelation sailing smoothly over the lot . It really took a lot of the frustration out of my model railway ! Of course the track was gradually upgraded as pocket money allowed but she was still my best .  The following year I got Oliver Cromwell  but, while good, it never matched the flawless running of the 9F .  In later years I acquired the Brush Type 4 , Black 5 and Evening Star to complete my "Silver Seal" collection but that 9F is the star of the show 

 

I still have her , in fact shes on the layout now hauling a train of Wrenn wagons - very 1970s  , still a lovely smooth runner . As Redgate says the issue is the tender plate that has become very brittle possibly because I've over tightened the securing screws over the years . The cable between cab and tender frequently became unattached and my Dads soldering iron saw much use .  Thats why I learned to solder !  I have a Bachmann model , which is good but can't match my old 9F , mainly because of the memories associated with it . Happy days !

Edited November 5, 2021 by Legend
Spelling and typing appalling!

[RedgateModels]

I've recently sold one on eBay, bought in bits with a broken tender frame, all fixed and sold on to a new owner. Yellow tray way cracked so was replaced from my stocks. Old one repurposed for one of my own creations 

 

[Paul H Vigor]

Must admit, the review of the Mike's Models 009 Talyllyn coach kit took my eye! I had two of these and the brakevan, circa 1976. 

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I still have my original Evening Star bought in the early 80's. It is still a great runner.

[sandwich station]

On 05/11/2021 at 11:17, locomad2 said:

 At the time the future looked good, tender drive could be used for future models, unfortunately that didn't happen, the later Black 5 just didn't match the 9F performance. In about 1975 Model Railway Constructor did review of haulage capacity the early 9F clearly out performed other locomotive, later thanks to the Pat Hammond book it turned out Hornby couldn't use the early motor due to costs and patents ?

 

But the early Black 5's (along with Oliver Cromwell and the early 47) had the same motor in them.

[Tofufi]

I bought one of these probably in the late 90s.

 

It was always a terrible runner, not a patch on the triang loco drive models in my collection.

 

It stays resigned to its box today, replaced by an airfix kit with a brass chassis powered by an XO4 motor.

[Il Grifone]

My 'Evening Star' (ringfield tender drive) runs well apart from a tendency for the driving wheels to lock up. It appears to be a combination of excessive slop and a fractionally out of quarter wheelset, though they all appear OK.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

There is enough sideways slop in the axles and coupling rods to negotiate first radius curves! 

 

The Hornby Railroad loco drive 9F chassis fits the earlier tender drive bodies…

 

We have both a black and the M&S train set version of Evening Star re done with Railroad Evening Star loco drive chassis…

[33C]

7 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

My 'Evening Star' (ringfield tender drive) runs well apart from a tendency for the driving wheels to lock up. It appears to be a combination of excessive slop and a fractionally out of quarter wheelset, though they all appear OK.

Check the reverse crank is not bent in, fouling the con rod. They are susceptible to the odd knock over time and with all the built in play in the wheels and rods it can foul at odd moments.

[Il Grifone]

8 hours ago, 33C said:

Check the reverse crank is not bent in, fouling the con rod. They are susceptible to the odd knock over time and with all the built in play in the wheels and rods it can foul at odd moments.

 

IIRC it did, but was sorted. However the lock up is definitely a coupling rod problem. One of these days I'll have another go at it....

[Butler Henderson]

The Black Five as originally released had loco pick up with traction tyres on both sides of the tender as per the original 9Fs. A Britannia was a big disappointment with pick up split between the loco and tender, traction tyres on one side only and an inability to pull anything of any subtance.

[RedgateModels]

The first Oliver Cromwell had 6 traction tyres like Evening Star, I've got one (with a dodgy bodged up tender frame) 

[railroadbill]

Have a Hornby A4 (Mallard) which was a present in about 1980, which I've kept.  That's got Ringfield motor tender drive (3 pole one?).  It never ran terribly well, so got left in its box, nearly sold it but it was a present after all, so had sentimental value. Anyway, several years ago I had another go, cleaned it and oiled etc. What I found was, given a good amount of running, it got better.  In the end it would run reasonably slowly, plus didn't stall.  (This one has loco wheels live one side, tender ones the other).

 

The  best tender drive Hornby loco I had was a B17, which I sold on.  Very controllable. I felt that the mechanism had somehow been improved.  (Think that was still a Margate one, early 1990s). 

[Legend]

Yep the original Oliver Cromwell has 6 traction tyres  on tender .  Maybe it changed later on , but mine dates from 1975

[andyman7]

On 05/11/2021 at 07:28, Titan said:

IIRC the early ones had a Fleischmann motor. Ten wheel pick up on the loco, six wheel drive tender with traction tyres on all six.  It was somewhat of a performance downgrade when the Hornby Ringfield replaced it.

 

They are both Hornby Ringfields, the first is the 'Type 1' which is clearly copied/licensed (depending on the story) from the Fleischmann design. The second version was used from 1977 and was cheaper to make. However, the second type is a clever design which is more easily serviced than the Fleischmann one; what lets it down is that in parallel with the changeover the loco chassis used more plastic and to reduce assembly costs the pickups are via the inner chassis or bogie frame so loco/tender or bogies are opposite polarities with no all wheel pickup. Less weight and fewer pickups significantly reduced performance. Properly weighted and with extra pickups fitted the second type can work very well. 

 

On 06/11/2021 at 08:21, Tofufi said:

I bought one of these probably in the late 90s.

 

It was always a terrible runner, not a patch on the triang loco drive models in my collection.

 

It stays resigned to its box today, replaced by an airfix kit with a brass chassis powered by an XO4 motor.

 

Once production moved to China, all wheel pickup was reinstated; and eventually the motor was relocated to the loco. So later examples of the model are much better performers 'out of the box' than the 1977-98 Margate made ones.

 

2 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

The first Oliver Cromwell had 6 traction tyres like Evening Star, I've got one (with a dodgy bodged up tender frame) 

 

1 hour ago, Legend said:

Yep the original Oliver Cromwell has 6 traction tyres  on tender .  Maybe it changed later on , but mine dates from 1975

In parallel with the need to speed up production and to try and offset rampant inflation in 1975, all the 'Silver Seal' Ringfield models then in production (Britannia, the Black 5 and the Brush Type 4) had their mechanical specification downgraded (or 'revised' if you look at the service sheets of the time) to reduce wiring and soldering by reducing the number of pickups. The only reason this didn't happen to the 9F is that it got deleted, after only 3 years. This was part of a range reduction strategy to manage the shortages of the period and keep the most profitable lines in production. It reappeared in 1977, with the type 2 Ringfield mechanism.

 

I've got an original 1971 issue version as well as the 100th anniversary version issued last year. With loco drive, all wheel pickup, separate wire handrails, fine printing and lining and narrow couplings the 100th anniversary version looks extraordinarily good considering the 50 year old base; a fitting final run I think.

Edited November 7, 2021 by andyman7

[johnofwessex]

What did it cost when it first came out - and whats that at todays prices?

[Legend]

1 hour ago, johnofwessex said:

What did it cost when it first came out - and whats that at todays prices?

 It was expensive . £9.95 back in 1971 . It was more than the x04 powered Flying Scotsman  . I think by the time I got my black one in 1974  the loco was £9.95 and the Evening Star was up to £10.50 

[Butler Henderson]

The black one was slightly cheaper in 1971; remember having one, did not work, neither did any of the others in the shop - a Evening Star obtained from another shop. The "they are all faulty" is nothing new; a batch of models made at the same time go into the same big box and get delivered to one shop.

[GoingUnderground]

21 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

What did it cost when it first came out - and whats that at todays prices?

The loco first appeared in the 1971 catalogue. the last one issued as part of the Lines Bros group. The loco was priced at £8.00 according to a price list that I typed out at the time. I have no idea why I typed it, nor of my source for the information. But I have no reason to believe that it wasn't right as the prices are in £sd and 1971 was the year in which we changed over to "decimal" currency. I don't know where I got the £8.00 from as the catalogue shows "Evening Star" as "Available late 1971!

 

This was way more than any other loco in the Triang Hornby range. The next most expensive was R.855N LNER "Flying Scotsman" at £6.25, followed by R.869S Battle of Britain Class "Winston Churchill, and R.871 Princess Coronation Class 8P "King George VI" (which was also new in 1971 with nickel silver tyres) at £5.75, and R.864 Princess Coronation Class 8P "Coronation" at £5.25.

 

For comparison, the cheapest locos were the R.253 the diesel Dock Shunter, and R.355B 0-4-0 "Nellie" and R.355G 0-4-0 "27". at £2,50.

 

The official 1972 price list has the same locos at the following prices:

R.861 "Evening Star" £9.99

R.855N "Flying Scotsman" £7.45

R.869S "Winston Churchill" £6.85

R.871 "King George Vi" £6.85

R,864 "Coronation" £6.15

 

R.253 Diesel Dock Shunter £2.90

R.353 "Nellie" £2.90

 

And the official January 1970 price list has them as:

R.855 £5.45

R.869S £5.25

 

R.253 £2.35

R.355R £2.15

R.355G £2.15

 

So whatever my source for the 1971 prices, they look to have been correct, higher than 1970, lower than 1972