Burkitt Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I hadn't originally planned to enter the challenge this year as I still haven't finished my entry for the 2010 challenge. However, while designing my N scale 1995 stick tube train (workbench topic here) I thought it might be nice to build a small diorama to display it on, and doing it as an entry for the 2011 challenge seemed a natural step from there. Watching the interesting and also rather funny Unfinished London video about the unbuilt Northern Heights extension to the London Underground Northern Line on Youtube, my eye had been caught by the visualisation of Brockley Hill station, with the platforms on an arched viaduct and a sweeping curve of shops adjoining the station building. Here's the Northern Heights video - the image of Brockley Hill is at 3:05. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjuD288JlCs I thought the station would make a good subject for a diorama, with the viaduct allowing more prominent display of the trains than is possible in a cut-away tunnel or at ground level. My idea is to depict it as it might appear in the present day, so as to provide a home for my 1995 stock. Though there are almost no further details of the station on line, the subject is well covered in Tony Beard's By Tube Beyond Edgeware, which includes several plans of the area and buildings, so an order was duly placed. To see how well the station compared with the permitted 20 X 11 inches, I scanned the area plan and imported it to Sketchup. Clearly modelling the whole thing would be impossible (it was intended to be 9 cars long), but I think I have managed, with a bit of compression, to include the most distinctive features of the design - the booking hall, the curved parade of shops, and the arched viaduct carrying the platforms. The booking hall and shops are to the left, with the platforms running along the rear of the available space. To the right is a section of the Watford Bypass, with the bus stop which was constructed before the extension was cancelled and still exists today. Though the booking hall is accurately scaled, I have shortened the curved parade of shops and reduced the number of arches beneath the platforms from seven to four. I don''t think this degree of compression should affect the appearance of the model too much. As I said in the title, this is an idea rather than a definite plan. Whether I actually commit scalpel to foamboard and make it for real depends on how well the 1995 stock comes together once it's delivered by Shapeways, and how happy I am with progress on my entry from last year - I would rather like to get one layout somewhere close to finished before starting on the next one. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60006 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 If you do end up starting this project then I will definitely be following it with great interest. Looks like a great concept and project. Tom N. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 That's a great Youtube and source of inspiration. I hope Shapeways comes up with the goods enabling you to follow this through :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
L49 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Definitely worth doing! I looks like a really good compact scheme, with lots of good detail and nice clear viewing points. There seems to be a bit of a potential Northern Heights thread developing in the chalenge this year. I might have to do the Palace in T gauge to complete the set. Now where did I leave that 1:450 scale N7? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dna Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Looks like a good idea for a diorama - even if it is in competition with my Highgate suggestion! Not a bad thing though, you can't beat a bit of competition to bring out the best results. If you go ahead I'll be interested to see how it pans out and it will certainly spur me on. Also, seeing the arches reminded me (a bit) of Putney Bridge station. I love the view up at the bridge over Ranleigh Gardens, seeing the train you have just got off flashing out of the station and behind the next building, what ever it is. I think though I've got enough ideas for the challenge layout as it is. Good luck, Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Tony Beard's book is now available from Kevin Robertson for half list price - if he has any left, that is ... Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam '43003' Tanner Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 This looks very promising. I've always had a soft spot for the "Outdoors" section of the Underground, just never had the desire to model it. I do hope this one comes to life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 What a great idea - as an ex-resident of Bushey Heath myself many, many years ago (my father was at RAF Bentley Priory and RAF Stanmore), despite the many changes from my time there, I think it is a great idea - and I love your visualation. Hope the Tube Train is succesfull - Best of luck with it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Excellent idea, and it fits perfectly into the size for the challenge - looks good just as a computer generated image! Go for it! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I drive past the spot twice a day to and from work. For years I wondered about the line and found Tony's book in a shop in Derbyshire. Not much to see now as most of the brickwork has been removed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkitt Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Thanks everyone for your comments. Though it is now getting a bit close to the deadline, I'm pretty pleased with how the 95 stock looks so I've decided to make a start on my Brockley Hill diorama. If I don't get it done in time, I shall just have to remember the Douglas Adams quote: "I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." A few weeks ago I made a trip to the intended site of the station to get a feel for the area and see what is left of the never-completed structure. ......... ......... ......... The station site is now used to hold boot fairs on Sundays - not the day of my visit so I was able to get a good look around free of obstruction. ......... ......... ......... Almost the only remnants of the unfinished station are the stumps of the viaduct piers. When work stopped the arches between them had been completed, though the viaduct was never built up to track level. At some point the structure was partially demolished, presumably for safety reasons. ......... ......... ......... Even on the edge of the countryside, with rolling green fields over the fence, the stumps have been comprehensively covered in graffiti. It is interesting to note that while Tony Beard's book on the Northern Heights extension, By Tube Beyond Edgeware states that yellow bricks were to be used for all structures on the new line, the viaduct is clearly built from red brick. ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... On the Watford bypass is the only other evidence of the station, the lay-by for the bus stop that will be at the front of the model. Other bus stops would have been provided on the service road in front of the station. ......... ......... ......... Over the other side of the roundabout, this huge new development is under construction, suggesting that had the Northern Line got this far it would have had plenty of passengers even with the green belt in place. My progress is not all talk - I have made an actual start on the model: ......... ......... ......... The baseboard is a simple foamboard construction, the full 20 by 11 inches in area, and 110mm deep to ensure rigidity. The masking tape is in place to hold the foamboard together while the glue dries - once it is all solid I'll peel it off and add the top piece. I plan on cladding the board in black styrene sheet to give it a smarter appearance and protect it from damage. ......... Finally, a slightly updated version of the Sketchup model with a few extra details. Before starting work on the buildings I'll plan them out in more detail in Sketchup to make sure everything looks right on the real thing. ......... ......... Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted August 27, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2011 Whilst browsing through the latest pictures...something very familiar caught my eye...my last UK project! I was the Project Architect for London Academy (hope you don't mind - I have added some red arrows to your photo to show it) whilst I was working with Norman Foster in London...I gave 5 years of my life to this project so am pretty familiar with the area and have a lot of site photos before and during construction of the School if they are of any use? I am pretty shocked to see the school now being 'swallowed up' by the surrounding housing project being built by others.... Thanks for making my day! BOT...Fascinating project this one...the visuals themselves are most compelling...look forward to see more Paul... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkitt Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 Hi Pete Thanks for your comments on my design and posting about the London Academy. I was really amazed by the building when I saw it, especially with the very space-age looking footbridge across the road to the playing fields. It made me wish they'd hurried up and got around to rebuilding my own secondary school before I left it. The housing under construction surprised me too, as I'd got the impression that the reason the line was cancelled was because the green belt meant all the stations would be in the middle of the countryside. I'd be very interested to see some of your photos of the site, though it is well outside the area that fits within the 20 by 11 inches. I've now got the top on the board, but having pulled all the masking tape off it's looking a little messy. I have also bought the Scalescenes brick viaduct kit, which I will use as the basis for the arches beneath the station, and ordered some waterproof plasticised paper to print it on, which I hope will be a bit more durable than normal paper. Meanwhile I had a play with a tube map in Photoshop to show how it might look today with the Northern Heights extension. With the Edgeware-Finchley line, the route into Moorgate and the Ally Pally branch, the Northern Line is even more sprawling and complex than in reality. Possibly it would have been split up at some point since the thirties, but I'm not about to start inventing whole new tube lines. I had been planning on cladding the base of the model in plain black styrene, but having done the map I think I might print it on the waterproof paper and use it to cover the base instead. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Hi Pete Thanks for your comments on my design and posting about the London Academy. I was really amazed by the building when I saw it, especially with the very space-age looking footbridge across the road to the playing fields. It made me wish they'd hurried up and got around to rebuilding my own secondary school before I left it. The housing under construction surprised me too, as I'd got the impression that the reason the line was cancelled was because the green belt meant all the stations would be in the middle of the countryside. I'd be very interested to see some of your photos of the site, though it is well outside the area that fits within the 20 by 11 inches. I've now got the top on the board, but having pulled all the masking tape off it's looking a little messy. I have also bought the Scalescenes brick viaduct kit, which I will use as the basis for the arches beneath the station, and ordered some waterproof plasticised paper to print it on, which I hope will be a bit more durable than normal paper. Meanwhile I had a play with a tube map in Photoshop to show how it might look today with the Northern Heights extension. With the Edgeware-Finchley line, the route into Moorgate and the Ally Pally branch, the Northern Line is even more sprawling and complex than in reality. Possibly it would have been split up at some point since the thirties, but I'm not about to start inventing whole new tube lines. I had been planning on cladding the base of the model in plain black styrene, but having done the map I think I might print it on the waterproof paper and use it to cover the base instead. Paul The flats which are being built are on brown-field land as I think there were 3 high rise blocks of flats on the site. Green field is on the other side of the A41 Watford by Pass, which I guess would have been more desirable than next to a school. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaternosterRow Posted August 27, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 27, 2011 Hi Paul This is a very interesting project. Many years ago I found an old Greater London Plan book in a skip. Published by The Ministry of Town and Country Planning Dept in 1944, it was still proposing the continuation of the line at that time as far as Bushey Heath. I dug it out of the loft after reading your entry. The Dept was also proposing that all main lines going into North London at the time should be electrified as far out as Luton - even freight was to be transfered over to electric trains! The book seems to place more emphasis on the development of road and air travel and gives the impression that the train was going to become a thing of the past eventually. Beeching's philosphy, therefore, was nothing new so I suppose it was no surprise that he hacked away at the suberbian infrastructure in the sixties. I will be following this with great interest. Original subject! Regards Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkitt Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Mike, thanks for your comments on the model and the Northern Heights extension. As I understand it, the final proposal for the line was to build only Brockley Hill of the three planned stations, and for the rest of it to exist only for access to the depot at Aldenham which had already been built. It is interesting how early on the focus of transport planning and legislation moved to road and air, and how little the railways did to make a case for themselves through most of the mid twentieth century. It particularly surprises me that even the Big Four seemed to go along with this view despite being among the largest and most powerful corporations of the day. As mentioned previously, I'm making use of Scalescenes textures for a lot of this model. For the roads, rather than print the standard sheets and cut and stick them into the right arrangement with scissors and glue, I've been designing the layout for the whole model in Photoshop. This has the advantage of allowing me to create features like the red bus stop surface and correct road markings for the destinations beyond the approaching junction. It will also save on ink and paper as I only need to print exactly what I need, and be much neater, with fewer joins. I'm also working on a similar design for all the pavements on the model. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaternosterRow Posted August 31, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 31, 2011 Now that's the way to model! I'm afraid that my approach is the old analogue way of cutting and gluing, but I'd love to be able to do Photoshop - yet another exciting development of the hobby. I suppose it's even possible to do the bespoke buildings this way? As for the the way the big four (and later BR) responded was, at the very least, extremely shortsighted. Simply because in this new, greener age, train travel will experience a renaisance and the mass use of the private car, as we know it, will become unviable. It still frustrates me, however, that all routes still seem to terminate at London. Even the proposed HS2 will do this, which means you'll have to change before going on to the continent if you're comming down from the North. More shortsightedness! Can't wait to see your project come together. I never lived in London, but have always been a great fan of the tube system and spent one visit, many years ago, travelling as much as the underground as I could in one day. Regards Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkitt Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Mike, it's definitely possible to create custom buildings using the Scalescenes textures and Photoshop, I'm hoping to at least partially design the station building and viaduct in Photoshop before printing it out. One thing to watch out for is that with high resolution textures over large areas and multiple layers, file sizes can become enormous - my road and pavement texture document is over 600MB. Progress on the board continues apace. Over the foamboard top I stuck a layer of mount board to provide a stronger, more damage resistant surface. I printed out and glued down an outline plan of the module layout to provide a guild for positioning the texture printouts. For the roads I am using waterproof paper which will hopefully be more resilient to minor splashes which can ruin an inket-printed paper surface. It is also supposed to be fade resistant and is less likely to tear. I have added about 10mm of texture outside the edges of the road, under where the pavement will go, to allow for any inaccuracies in printing, cutting, gluing etc the upper layer. Next step will be to print out the pavement textures and add them. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlestown Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Nice .. coming along dude. I like to work in CAD/CG too .. takes some gettin' ta grips with but saves a stack in the long run Regards. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Mike, it's definitely possible to create custom buildings using the Scalescenes textures and Photoshop, I'm hoping to at least partially design the station building and viaduct in Photoshop before printing it out. One thing to watch out for is that with high resolution textures over large areas and multiple layers, file sizes can become enormous - my road and pavement texture document is over 600MB. Progress on the board continues apace. Over the foamboard top I stuck a layer of mount board to provide a stronger, more damage resistant surface. I printed out and glued down an outline plan of the module layout to provide a guild for positioning the texture printouts. For the roads I am using waterproof paper which will hopefully be more resilient to minor splashes which can ruin an inket-printed paper surface. It is also supposed to be fade resistant and is less likely to tear. I have added about 10mm of texture outside the edges of the road, under where the pavement will go, to allow for any inaccuracies in printing, cutting, gluing etc the upper layer. Next step will be to print out the pavement textures and add them. Paul I like your approach to creating the scenic base with the different coloured tarmacs and road signs etc, In theory you could design and print off whole buildings and street fronts using this technique, as ever it's the learning curve with photoshop that puts me off, but I will be interested to see how this model progresses. Rgds, StuartM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkitt Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 Thanks for your compliments Dave and Stuart. I feel like I've been learning to dance over the past few days, it's been one step forward, one backward, one forward, one backward. While preparing to print the pavements, I realised that I'd got the dimensions of the station building off by a scale 2m. I went back to the Sketchup model and redesigned it from the scale drawings, working out the shape of the building in much more detail to ensure I didn't get any more unwelcome surprises. Luckily, I think the shape of the curved shops looks much better in the new version than it did previously, and it allows more space for bus shelters opposite station entrance. As the shape of the roads changed, I had to rip up the first attempt and print out new ones. For the new roads I decided to stick them down with PVA rather than UHU, as I hoped it would allow more time for positioning. It did, but I also ended up with purple stripes in the road from the glue soaking through. So, I ripped it up again, printed out the roads once more and finally it was third time lucky. The pavements are glued on a couple of layers of thin card to raise them above the height of the road. I'll add kerbs from thin strips of styrene, and I also need to add the central reservation of the dual carriageway. I bought some of those cheap Chinese cars to populate the roads and car park. They need some cleaning up and detailing to get the best out of them, but they cost less for forty than for two Tomix cars so the extra work is worth it. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted September 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2011 I first drooled over them thar arches in about 1963, from the top deck of a 107 bus. I knew what they were, what they represented, from the library copy of "Rails Through The Clay" by Croome & Jackson that I'd borrowed more than once. I re-visited about a decade later, new Nikon in hand. Then I was reminded of the scheme by a couple of architect's perspectives in "Underground Architecture" by Lawrence in the '90s, although these were of Bushey Heath and Elstree South. A chance conversation with a colleague in 2000 revealed that she lived in Bushey Heath - and knew a bit about the scheme, so I found myself spending a morning looking at all three sites. [Given the number of that bus, the fact that her house number was 107 seemed quite eerie!]. Finally Tony Beard's excellent book appeared and was read with glee. In short, this model is fascinating, and I wish it every success! EDIT And another thing! One very cold New Year's Day, I was one of 4 old farts squeezed into a car (a rather unfashionable Ferrari, the 2+2 versions always are) visiting a museum collection just of the A21. Much of the collection was housed in Nissen hut-type buildings, and most of it was old cars, some more interesting than others. But there were all sorts of other artifacts, too. One that caught my eye was a London Underground map of the sort that sits above the seats, so you can read from the opposite side of the car. This was the usual string-diagram, in this case of the Northern Line - including Brockley Hill, Elstree South and Bushey Heath! You pinch yourself when you see things like that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkitt Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 The Northern Heights extension certainly is fascinating Ian. The 107 bus will hopefully be represented sitting at the bus stop on the bypass. Do you know when the car map dates from, and whether it was ever used? It seems odd for maps to be printed showing a line that was never completed. I've now added the kerbs along most of the pavement, made from painted styrene strip. A bit more is still needed in the carpark and of course when I do the central reservation. A start has also building the structure of the viaduct from foamboard, which will be clad with card covered with printed brick texture. Finally, I have managed to get hold of some Z gauge track which will provide the conductor rails. The stuff is pretty hard to track down, a job not made easier by shops listing themselves on the UK model shops site as stocking Z scale when they patently don't. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I drive past that corner at least twice a day and yes there was a number 7 coming the other way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Hi Paul, Excellent work on the road surfaces, I'm halfway through the design stages on the roads for Cross Street using the same methods. The joy of making your own templates is that not only do they exactly match what you need (rather then being generic 'road'), but as you found, if it goes wrong, you just print them out again! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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