RMweb Premium 7013 Posted June 17, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2011 If they did a Beyer Garratt I wouldn't care if it had no handrails at all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 However, I AM glad to see a flywheel in a British outline steam loco at last! The flywheel really does make the whole locomotive run better. I've been studying it against the 5 pole motored A4s and A3s I have, and Tornado really does run a whole lot more smoothly. The extra pickups are simply not missed at all, I can't explain it well but the flywheel seems to keep the overall momentum going even when there's a lack of power. It's an incredibly smooth operator, and one which this A1 apologist is NOT apologizing for eulogizing over By the way - a little change to my model, as of this evening: Lipped chimney added, thanks Mick for the advice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted June 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 18, 2011 I can't explain it well but the flywheel seems to keep the overall momentum going even when there's a lack of power. Err - I can't see how you'd explain it better without using maths 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 However, I AM glad to see a flywheel in a British outline steam loco at last! Haven't stripped one down in a while but I thought the 9F had one? I prefer a decent motor to a flywheel as a DCC chip with back EMF tends to do the work better especially if you fit a capacitor too. I hope the lack of detail on this A1 is a one off to keep Tornado cheap and not a precedent. Carving handrails off things does normally need touch up work and the livery is one of the reasons to buy Hornby models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hill Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 It is a shame that there has not been a comparison with the Bachmann offering in the magazines but that may come. It does beg the question...Is it worth paying an extra £20-30 for the Bachmann model? The £92 offering from Hornby looks a very good model as it stands without any extras. I suppose if you buy the Hornby model you can choose to detail it more to whatever you want, but assuming it will cost £20 to purchase the bits and the time spent, would it not be worth buying the Bachamnn model which is already to a high standard, bit of a poser? The only problem I have with my Bachmann Tornado was the plastic plug that connects the tender to the loco. It is fiddly to fit the metal bar through and then connecting it to the plug. Also my plug chipped so it does not connect very well and is held by some blutac. Anybody know a way of sorting it out because i've had the model since December 2009 so I can't really send it back and i'm sure Bachmann won't be able to send a spare tender. I'm still not sure about getting a Hornby one as my Bachmann one was a special 18th Birthday present (though to be fair it was almost a Christmas present as my Birthday is September and didn't get my model until 2 days before Christmas Day.) so I don't really need two but the Hornby does look impressive and £92 isn't bad. I think I may just stick to my Bachmann one but if Hornby one day make a BR Blue 60163 and if they sell it the same as the Special Edition then I may get one. Then again I could always change my mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 . I suspect Hornby will have cornered the market by then, I think Bachmann have already done that! I have one and have no intention of buying a Hornby one. They missed the boat and should have done DoG instead IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Well chaps, I owe Hornby an apology! On a tip off from a viewer, hidden in a slot in the back of the foam insert of my Railroad Tornado, is a detailing pack including said lamp irons, vac pipes and brake rigging. I'll amend the video when I do the special edition against the Bachmann offering. I'm off to detail my Tornado now! So the model has gone up a tad in my estimation. It's just a pity I missed it when making the video. EDIT: Here's 60163 with attachments: EDIT 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEfXm6AS7Sk And I have edited the video with an annotation explaining the error. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 However, I AM glad to see a flywheel in a British outline steam loco at last! First one in OO anyway - Farish did this with the V2 quite a while back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 First one in OO anyway - Farish did this with the V2 quite a while back. Bachmann 9F definitely has a flywheel, I looked up a couple of reviews to check (easier than opening one up!).. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireline Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 First one in OO anyway - Farish did this with the V2 quite a while back. Hornby Railroad 9F has a flywheel also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Bachmann 9F definitely has a flywheel, I looked up a couple of reviews to check (easier than opening one up!).. And the Bachamnn split chassis locos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted June 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 19, 2011 Clarification to D605Eagle, I should have said that Hornby will probably have made great inroads into the market for those like me who could not justify the price of the Bachmann model especially with some of its errors (stated in a previous posting) that Hornby have not made. Normally Bachmann locos sell a bit cheaper than Hornby, but in this case Hornby have produced a more accurate model at up to £50 cheaper. On those grounds alone it makes no sense for a new purchaser to buy the Bachmann model. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Clarification to D605Eagle, I should have said that Hornby will probably have made great inroads into the market for those like me who could not justify the price of the Bachmann model especially with some of its errors (stated in a previous posting) that Hornby have not made. Normally Bachmann locos sell a bit cheaper than Hornby, but in this case Hornby have produced a more accurate model at up to £50 cheaper. On those grounds alone it makes no sense for a new purchaser to buy the Bachmann model. IIRC dont Bachmann make a contribution to the A1 steam trust for every Tornado model sold? What I was implying by my post is that most people who really wanted a Tornado already have one. I cannot imagine that they would buy another one. I understand what you mean now about most sales from this point on will be Hornby ones, but how big is that market compared to what Bachmann have already sold? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 IIRC dont Bachmann make a contribution to the A1 steam trust for every Tornado model sold? What I was implying by my post is that most people who really wanted a Tornado already have one. I cannot imagine that they would buy another one. I understand what you mean now about most sales from this point on will be Hornby ones, but how big is that market compared to what Bachmann have already sold? Different markets. Enthusiasts compared to the possibilities of the train set market, and of course, the youngsters who will now grow up with Tornado as one of the most famous engines on the mainline. My tune was very different on December 25th, 2010, when it was originally released, but now I see the reasoning behind the two different models, and the canniness of the A1 Trust is more than apparent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted June 20, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2011 I think that whatever version one purchases it will be fit for purpose so it is a case of all sections of the market being covered, it is not often we can say that there is an individual model to suit all, I suppose 'Flying Scotsman' in its various guises and 'Mallard' plus a few others. It is true that 'Tornado' is going to become iconic anongst the younger enthusiasts (and older ones), it demonstrates what can be done by a bunch of enthusiasts who set their mind on something, it is something we British do particularly well, look at the other projects in the pipeline, a new Grange, a Saint and many others, Ironically Hornby are in a great position along with those building the new Grange to cash in for both parties, admittedly not as glamorous as the A1 (This is a GWR man writing this through clenched teeth!), but worthy just the same to see another loco brought back from the dead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hornby Railroad 9F has a flywheel also. Fair enough, the Farish V2 still predates it by a good few years though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted June 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2011 should have done DoG instead IMO. nooooooo! - I've just bought a Golden Arrow DoG conversion kit, current spec Brit chassis and tender chassis parts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2011 I think that whatever version one purchases it will be fit for purpose so it is a case of all sections of the market being covered, it is not often we can say that there is an individual model to suit all, I suppose 'Flying Scotsman' in its various guises and 'Mallard' plus a few others. It is true that 'Tornado' is going to become iconic anongst the younger enthusiasts (and older ones), it demonstrates what can be done by a bunch of enthusiasts who set their mind on something, i It isn't just that with 'Tornado' because the interest in the loco is just as great, if not more so, in the non-enthusiast world than it is among the DAA bunch or the many shades in between. I think the reason for this is down to good publicity of what the A1 Trust has done and achieved through to a large, fast, stylish looking loco out on the mainline pulling big trains which anyone can travel on if they have enough in their bank account. Trains worked by 'Tornado' seem to sell particularly well because people want a bit to rub-off on them - they want to join in the adventure and success and it's a really good excuse reason to go on an expensive steam train ride. So to many people outside the enthusiast world 'Tornado' is something they've heard about and know about and Hornby is a well known and trusted brand with all sorts of sentimental attachments among parents and grandparents and wouldn't it be nice for the offspring/grandchildren etc to have a little piece of it either to remind them of a magic day out or to make up for the fact that they couldn't have such a trip? In other words it's a marketing man's dream and as far as we're concerned it might also have the effect of bringing people into the hobby via the sort of route that Hornby-Dublo created way back before WWII - excitement with the real thing. And an alternative or successor? I seriously doubt that there is one (apart from 'Flying Scotsman') short of a 'replica' P2. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 And an alternative or successor? I seriously doubt that there is one (apart from 'Flying Scotsman') short of a 'replica' P2. I'd think so - certainly the "New Build" steam projects would do well to liase with Hornby et al early on as there's a certain synergy to be exploited, and I'm pretty sure the A1 Trust were happy to have Bachmann onboard helping with fundraising/publicity efforts during construction. I'd put even money on a P2 coming from one or both of Hornby and Bachmann in OO once the project gains momentum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 The special edition one is here - just had my card charged by a certain Liverpudlian boxshifter...! I will start working on a comparison video for the Hornby and Bachmann models when the Hornby one arrives, watch this space! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Bachmann 9F definitely has a flywheel, I looked up a couple of reviews to check (easier than opening one up!).. The one I had didn't: I took it completely apart and it had a standard Bachmann 3-pole motor. It was one of the first production runs: have they changed the motor on more recent versions? JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Moss Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Our club one, before it got robbed of the layout was one of the first batch and it had a fly wheel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Our club one, before it got robbed of the layout was one of the first batch and it had a fly wheel. Mine - one of the first batch with a certificate - doesn't have a flywheel of any kind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 The Tornado on Hattons site in BR apple green is listed as a special edition - NEW TOOLING. Is there a wopping difference between this and the Railroad model? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 The Tornado on Hattons site in BR apple green is listed as a special edition - NEW TOOLING. Is there a wopping difference between this and the Railroad model? There is no physical difference, at all. It is the same model with the "complete" livery applied. Physically it is identical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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