'Railroad' Tornado

[Dan Hill]

I'm guessing that while Bachmann may send spare parts out I won't be able to get a new tender for my Tornado. And I'm also not sure whether to email Hornby about getting a replacement 5972 Hogwarts Castle body after that had a similar fall to S.A.C's Tornado and broke part of the bufferbeam. And maybe a Merchant Navy chassis as the motion came apart one day and a screw I need went missing.

[S.A.C Martin]

I'm just a little disappointed at the lack of customer service. No reasons outlining why, just a blanket statement "we don't supply spare parts for this locomotive". I know this is a little different to the car industry, where you must supply spare points for X model for Y length of time, but isn't there a similar obligation for model trains?

 

What is perhaps most depressing is that a person who didn't think they could repair it, would end up writing the model off completely. It becomes a wholly disposable object if you can't fix it when it breaks.

[7013]

If it is to do with exclusivity perhaps you could send it back to Hornby and ask them to repair it? I am sure they would find a new body lickety split!

[Ozexpatriate]

I'm just a little disappointed at the lack of customer service. No reasons outlining why, just a blanket statement "we don't supply spare parts for this locomotive".

Simon,

 

While I can't pretend that I "know" the real answer, I think the fact that this is a limited edition paint job coupled with the fact that the combination of Sanda Kan and Hornby have really struggled to meet their delivery commitments in the last couple of years and the perception that Hornby need to show their investors revenue right now; means that everything manufactured gets sold. There is nothing set aside for spares. This would cost them sales.

 

What is perhaps most depressing is that a person who didn't think they could repair it, would end up writing the model off completely. It becomes a wholly disposable object if you can't fix it when it breaks.

That is a current trend in RTR models, particularly evident in this case with the detailed lining in the paint job. Modern mechanics are less easy to repair. (Can motors need to be replaced, unlike older motors that can be rewired and remagnetized.) With the exception of some regular posters here whose work with spray gun and bow pen is excellent, even paint and detailed lining feels like it is beyond many of us. (Perhaps it is fair to admit that many of us are more intimidated than incapable of learning. It certainly feels that way for me.)

[GreenDiesel]

Just this afternoon, I bought my nephew a Railroad Tornado for his birthday. We were running it this afternoon & it looks great! Now, should I get one for myself???

[S.A.C Martin]

Just this afternoon, I bought my nephew a Railroad Tornado for his birthday. We were running it this afternoon & it looks great! Now, should I get one for myself???

 

In short, yes, if you like it. I thoroughly reccomend the Railroad version - cheaper, still looks the part, and you can do a lot with it RE painting and modifying. Next thing on mine to go will be the moulded handrails on the smoke deflectors

 

By the way, Coach - you asked for figures for running in? I didn't want to show these until the 30th day of trials, but having completed them yesterday, and essentially doing as much running in as the day allows...

 

 

That probably shows how sad I am!

 

And on a related note - fitted the buffers this afternoon to the special edition Just painting and lining out to do...!!!

 

 

 

And look - they're sprung!

[coachmann]

Thorough set of trials there Mr. Martin. Thanks very much for letting us see them ....I feel more confident about vthe motor now. And the loco has repaired very well.

[S.A.C Martin]

Thorough set of trials there Mr. Martin. Thanks very much for letting us see them ....I feel more confident about vthe motor now.

 

The motor seems to be one of the standard affair for some of the smaller Hornby locos - definitely 3-pole, but it's the gearing to the driving wheels that seems to be making it so smooth, and doubtless the flywheel helps as well. Word of caution: check the back to backs on the front bogie as it can derail, seemingly, with little provocation in terms of the quality of track laid.

 

And the loco has repaired very well.

 

Thank you very much. Now I just have to pluck up the courage to paint it red and line it out! That's for another day I think.

[kskato]

The motor seems to be one of the standard affair for some of the smaller Hornby locos - definitely 3-pole, but it's the gearing to the driving wheels that seems to be making it so smooth, and doubtless the flywheel helps as well. Word of caution: check the back to backs on the front bogie as it can derail, seemingly, with little provocation in terms of the quality of track laid.

 

 

 

Thank you very much. Now I just have to pluck up the courage to paint it red and line it out! That's for another day I think.

 

Ahh.. shes rising like a phoenix.

 

Glad you have the talent to fix it. I don't. Mine would be listed on eBAy if it happened to me.

 

Happy to hear about the motor. But overall after hearing about the way H has presented the Tornados, I think I'll skip them and spend my money on some other

train items.

 

Can't understand why Hornby dosent want to make money off repair parts and unpainted bodies.

 

Howard

[7013]

Superb repair S.A.C. credit to you, what a superb loco she is

[CullingworthGNR]

That repair job is looking fantastic - I bet the lining is a b*gger to do though. I'd paint it plain red and stick rather than twist, but my skills are evidently inferior to yours!

 

Hopefully the repair will make the loco even more valued, at least sentimentally. Good work that man.

[S.A.C Martin]

Had a thought RE the lining - paint the bufferbeam white, then masking it tape it, and then paint the red over the top, preserving the white lining surround on the bufferbeam? I don't fancy using transfers for this one, too fiddly in a small space.

 

The Railroad Tornado is running well, in all but one area. The eccentric crank on the left hand side keeps working itself loose. This is causing the valve gear to seize up while running. No damage seems to have been done (as yet), but the pin over the top of the connecting rod and eccentric crank on the centre driving wheel is a right fiddle.

 

Overall, the relative robustness and simplicity of the body is not particularly matched by the valve gear, which is finer and seemingly more temperamental.

 

I would still put the money towards a Railroad Tornado over a Bachmann one, any day. The £70 price difference for a model you can effectively finish yourself for minimal cost is the biggest factor.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Can't understand why Hornby doesnt want to make money off repair parts and unpainted bodies...

Any business is happy to make money by legitimate means. The most likely explanation why Hornby aren't selling 'spare parts' is that they cannot make money at it. If they were to offer spares at the necessary commercial price, they would get very few sales, because the prices would be a substantial proportion of the complete model. The near complete disappearance of the once thriving independent retailers who traded in spares tells the same story. There's no factory supply of spares, everything has to be got by 'breaking', immediately you are into paying for the time of 'someone' taking models apart to isolate the required item(s), and you have to carry the unsold left overs in stock in the hope of them eventually finding a buyer : that adds up to large mark up, and consequently a price the customer is likely not willing to pay.

 

This problem affects the vast majority of mass produced manufactures: well known in the case of the motor trade, which despite operating on a scale several orders of magnitude larger than model railways still has to charge high prices for spare parts. Try buying a windscreen without assistance from an insurance system: the retail price for an item that costs a few quid in materials and manufacturing ends up around £500 even for a 'cheap to maintain' make. There are real costs in sparing; the procurement and dispatching operations, and the warehouse storage and management of the inventory first among them - and then those running such businesses have a legitimate expectation to trade in profit - and this has to be paid for. It quickly adds up...

[kskato]

Any business is happy to make money by legitimate means. The most likely explanation why Hornby aren't selling 'spare parts' is that they cannot make money at it. If they were to offer spares at the necessary commercial price, they would get very few sales, because the prices would be a substantial proportion of the complete model. The near complete disappearance of the once thriving independent retailers who traded in spares tells the same story. There's no factory supply of spares, everything has to be got by 'breaking', immediately you are into paying for the time of 'someone' taking models apart to isolate the required item(s), and you have to carry the unsold left overs in stock in the hope of them eventually finding a buyer : that adds up to large mark up, and consequently a price the customer is likely not willing to pay.

 

This problem affects the vast majority of mass produced manufactures: well known in the case of the motor trade, which despite operating on a scale several orders of magnitude larger than model railways still has to charge high prices for spare parts. Try buying a windscreen without assistance from an insurance system: the retail price for an item that costs a few quid in materials and manufacturing ends up around £500 even for a 'cheap to maintain' make. There are real costs in sparing; the procurement and dispatching operations, and the warehouse storage and management of the inventory first among them - and then those running such businesses have a legitimate expectation to trade in profit - and this has to be paid for. It quickly adds up...

 

Sooo.. and I'm asking , not challenging...

The UK customer would rather have a engine setting on the shelf than pay £5.00 for a part they believe to be worth say £2.00 ?

 

Kato, Athearn, Marklin, etc has some level of supporting parts supply at the Manf. and/or dealer level. And I was glad they did.

 

And I'm sure the other customers like me, cusses the price and repaired the item and was happy with the item looking right & running around the layout again.

 

And ohh I'm well aware of the 'parts Dept. in the Automotive world.

I worked at Auto. dealerships for 15+ years.

The existence of a parts Dept. Allows more profit to accessories to be installed on new car purchases.

Profit from wholesale to garages.

Profits from selling to body shops.

Profits from parts to its service Dept. for labor & parts profit.

A correctly controlled investment of inventory is well worth it.

And just plain old showing the customer its support of products under warranty and after.

 

With that history of mine, its the other reason "I wonder why 'spares' aren't more available"

 

But its the way it is.

Oh-well ...

 

PS : I guess its a UK thing?

It's like, I see guys complaining about Manf's duplication of engines.

I'd think the competition would be good for pricing and advancing technology of a product. And the consumer benefits..

One of the pillars of capitalism and all that !! B)

 

Howard

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Howard,

 

Unfortunately I reckon the necessary price to perceived value ratio for small model spares is going to be at least 10: 1 as a business. You might hope to pay £2 for the part, but someone breaking models to obtain the spare needs to charge more like £20 in order to have a workable business. Remember this is tiny volume of demand, the spares cannot be got separately 'just in time' but a complete item has to be paid for up front, and then there is the labour to extract the part and dispatch it. and what you have left then sits in inventory with no guarantee of further sales, which is capital unavoidably tied up in stock.

 

I have some direct experience of this, as I have broken complete models quite frequently to get parts for projects: sometimes needing most of a running chassis, but the body, other parts and tender are spare, other times it is just the body required and the running gear can be sold on, that sort of thing. Now I read online numerous complaints about lack of spares for model railway product, so when I offer my spare bits, surely I am swamped with responses? Not a bit of it, demand is very weak, and what is more the price offered is often well below what I would expect. A good example was a complete chassis from a current tank engine model retailing at £50. I should have thought the chassis was worth circa half the retail price, but it was quite a while before I got more than £5 offered. One guy suggested he was willing to pay p&p to 'take it off your hands'. Eventually got £20. The potential customers are few, and it appears most believe they should get the parts at giveaway valuation. I wouldn't go anywhere near model railway spares supply as a business proposition...

[micklner]

I can only speak re Hornbys LNER Locos the following falls off all them I have without the slightest provocation :-

 

Cab Doors, Cab Clear Plastic Wind Defectors, Reversing Levers and Ash Pan Levers and Anti Vacumn Pipes.

 

They are all so flimsy or so poorly fitted/located on to the bodies they are a bit of a joke . Lastly Plastic Lamp Irons!! beyond belief why not are they not made in metal ? No doubt they are true scale but useless if they will not hold a Lamp without falling off !!

 

Hornby should supply all of these parts they are not upto the job and therefore should be readily available, for the trade tiny cost of the above parts they should be extra included in the box with the loco. Profit should not be a consideration its called Customer Service.

Hornby are now asking well over £100 for detailed Locos and have a liablity to their customers. I personally would not pay such amounts for one Loco when I know the slightest accident will ruin the Loco with no obvious way of repairing my investment.

I fail to understand why is it is easy to obtain any part for the chassis and below the footplate but not for the body.

I rely on E bay producing spares for my locos or scratchbuild the parts needed otherwise I dont think I would own any of the current Hornbys offerings ? !!

 

Well done re the repair to Tornado above. You would have found painting easier if the Red had been done before adding the buffers. The white lining can be done using the HMRS LNER Lining Sheet

[S.A.C Martin]

That's a good tip Mick, thanks very much. I'll sort that out this afternoon.

 

Well gents, consider the bufferbeam well and truly repaired now.

 

From this:

 

 

To this:

 

 

...to this:

 

 

...and earlier today, to this:

 

 

...where I had applied white undercoat to the bufferbeam. After tidying up the splatter of the acrylic white paint, taped the model back up, and sprayed on some "fiery red" from the Revell range. The result is as below:

 

 

So that will do for me for the moment, to allow me to finish the video review. Filming will restart in earnest next week. The model will also start its own series of trials, like I did with the Railroad Tornado last month, with general tests as in the review video, and copious amounts of running in.

 

The irony of using Bachmann components to fix a Hornby model has not yet been lost on me, particularly the Hornby VS Bachmann nature of the upcoming video I am working on...!

[kskato]

Howard,

 

Unfortunately I reckon the necessary price to perceived value ratio for small model spares is going to be at least 10: 1 as a business. You might hope to pay £2 for the part, but someone breaking models to obtain the spare needs to charge more like £20 in order to have a workable business. Remember this is tiny volume of demand, the spares cannot be got separately 'just in time' but a complete item has to be paid for up front, and then there is the labour to extract the part and dispatch it. and what you have left then sits in inventory with no guarantee of further sales, which is capital unavoidably tied up in stock.

 

I have some direct experience of this, as I have broken complete models quite frequently to get parts for projects: sometimes needing most of a running chassis, but the body, other parts and tender are spare, other times it is just the body required and the running gear can be sold on, that sort of thing. Now I read online numerous complaints about lack of spares for model railway product, so when I offer my spare bits, surely I am swamped with responses? Not a bit of it, demand is very weak, and what is more the price offered is often well below what I would expect. A good example was a complete chassis from a current tank engine model retailing at £50. I should have thought the chassis was worth circa half the retail price, but it was quite a while before I got more than £5 offered. One guy suggested he was willing to pay p&p to 'take it off your hands'. Eventually got £20. The potential customers are few, and it appears most believe they should get the parts at giveaway valuation. I wouldn't go anywhere near model railway spares supply as a business proposition...

 

Thanks for reply. 34th

 

I just had this thought err.. notion*.

If other Manf. can do it, well ....

*Websters Dictionary :

[A notion is a vague or capricious idea, often without any sound basis.

[A thought, on the other hand, is an idea that is the result of meditation, reasoning, or some other intellectual activity]

 

Enough of this tread interuption..

 

Martin----

Looking forward to your planned H_v_B videos ...!

 

 

Howard

[S.A.C Martin]

Just to say a small apology for the lack of the video - I had been working on a few other projects, and I have it and the 14XX video to do this week. I bought some HMRS transfers, I am awaiting them to reline the bufferbeam out, so I can continue filming. In short, coming soon!

[Dan Hill]

I decided to take a plunge and bought myself a Tornado Express (but didn't with a Special Edition as I feel happy enough with my Bachmann one) set at the Mid Hants on Saturday. Sadly because I'm moving soon I won't be able to give her a run out.

[Coldgunner]

Same pack as what I got, I was a little disappointed to find the brass nameplates were not included, so I ordered the brass nameplates from fox transfers.

[S.A.C Martin]

Just to say a small apology for the lack of the video - I had been working on a few other projects, and I have it and the 14XX video to do this week. I bought some HMRS transfers, I am awaiting them to reline the bufferbeam out, so I can continue filming. In short, coming soon!

 

Just realized how far behind I am in making my videos. Expect this one before Xmas...!

[Dan Hill]

Same pack as what I got, I was a little disappointed to find the brass nameplates were not included, so I ordered the brass nameplates from fox transfers.

I may do that as well. I did think about painting the door handles and hinges silver but then didn't know how to do the naming plaques or worksplates as I've never customised a loco model.

 

Edit. I just noticed on there thisA1 Peppercorn Class 4-6-2 - TORNADO - Special set for new build engine light blue - brass. Now includes secondary plaque. It costs £18.90 but what does it contain as I can't get any info on its contents otherwise I may buy that plus some loco headboards.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Dan Hill

[Coldgunner]

The 4mm namplates are the same size as the ones printed on the deflector so its quite easy to line those up. For the secondary plate I found a photo similar to this and judged it by eye. I only dabbed a minute amount of superglue on it.

[Coldgunner]

Just took a photo. Unfortunately you can see where I had a slight glue related incident with the smaller plate (very shaky hands I'm afraid). What is evident is one of the big downfalls of the Hornby model, the silly moulded buffers. I'd change them to sprung buffers but I'm not brave enough.