RMweb - what next?

[Andy Y]

I guess they could be just joining to get their own "Active/New Contents" list so they can use the site that way

 

Quite possibly so as I'd meant 'search' in the wider context as AC/VNC run on a search basis.

 

 

In some ways I can't quite see the point of a "site special" search facility when you can embed or use Google - after all that is their specialty.

 

You would think it would be better than Google for the average traffic forum site but we do seem to have a Googlebot permanently scurrying around here but it doesn't mean it finds everything that's been chucked into the database as soon as it lands; like us it has to meander through the place. Theoretically a site search should produce results for recent entries more reliably.

 

That's why both options are now provided in the drop-down to the right of the search term entry box.

[Kenton]

How about introducing an invisible ink revealer in all browsers ? - see post #95 of this thread.

Not quite sure about where that comment comes from ??

That people join and decide not to post, for whatever reason, is their choice - do mag editors get upset because the whole of their subscription membership doesn't send them "letters to the editor" on a monthly basis ? dilbert

The problem there is that a magazine is a totally different media.

 

A magazine is purchased to read and not interact with. Simply purchasing it (or borrowing a copy) enables the reader to digest everything. Sending in letters is probably restricted to a few and as you know not every letter is published that is sent in - it is very much down to editor's choice and policy of the magazine.

 

A Forum - even more so RMWeb, is a community of its contributors. There is nothing preventing anyone reading all the content of RMWeb because Andy has set it up as an open forum (great idea, and quite different from some that you have to register or even pay a subscription to even read). So there is no requirement to take the step of membership of RMWeb - unless you are intending to participate.

 

I know it is their choice not to take part - it is just that I cannot rationalise why someone joins such an interactive group and then doesn't take part in any way.

[Kenton]

That's why both options are now provided in the drop-down to the right of the search term entry box.

drop-down, what drop down? another one of those things I can't see (but actually don't really miss using Google directly)

Point about Google bot is a good one though I find it is pretty efficient for RMWeb.

That and I would probably spot the current topics just by being here every day bar few. Where the surprises come up they are usually blog content or deep within long and interesting threads that have lost their immediate interest. eg. some of the changing WB/layout topics or the non-specific like South Wales Industrials or Waverley Route.

[Guest dilbert]

A magazine is purchased to read and not interact with. Simply purchasing it (or borrowing a copy) enables the reader to digest everything. Sending in letters is probably restricted to a few and as you know not every letter is published that is sent in - it is very much down to editor's choice and policy of the magazine.

 

A Forum - even more so RMWeb, is a community of its contributors. There is nothing preventing anyone reading all the content of RMWeb because Andy has set it up as an open forum (great idea, and quite different from some that you have to register or even pay a subscription to even read). So there is no requirement to take the step of membership of RMWeb - unless you are intending to participate.

 

I know it is their choice not to take part - it is just that I cannot rationalise why someone joins such an interactive group and then doesn't take part in any way.

 

 

In general terms, half the site visits are from guests, which suggests that the forum is being used to peruse content, unless there is a plague of bots out there. RMWeb is a magazine in this sense, even if there is no direct centralised printed output.

 

And if someone registers in order to just use the AC/VNC function (for whatever reason), why shouldn't they etc ? Also, there are probably forum members with no posts to their names (so what ?) who contribute, even if it is limited to a financial contribution... dilbert

[10800]

it is just that I cannot rationalise why someone joins such an interactive group and then doesn't take part in any way.

 

Presumably they can - don't worry about it.

[Barry Ten]

Presumably they can - don't worry about it.

 

Indeed; I've joined a few forums over the years on a spur of the moment thing and then contributed little

if anything afterwards.

[Kris]

I know it is their choice not to take part - it is just that I cannot rationalise why someone joins such an interactive group and then doesn't take part in any way.

Some people will join forums to protect future use of a login in name, others will do it because they feel that they should, or that there will be more content for them to brows once logged in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave777]

Yup, that's the reason for me. Off the top of my head I can think of 2 other forums I joined a couple of years ago so that I could read/access the whole of the site and have never posted a thing.

[Kenton]

Yup, that's the reason for me. Off the top of my head I can think of 2 other forums I joined a couple of years ago so that I could read/access the whole of the site and have never posted a thing.

I can see the point of that - the NGRM-online forum is a perfect example for me of that. Some good material but have to join just to read it, but can't see why it shouldn't be here on RMWeb and have no real desire to duplicate it. So would/have posted the contributions on RMWeb.

I find I have little desire to join multiple forums, there is enough on RMWeb to keep me busy for too much of my modelling down time as it is.

 

and it is not that I worry about it - just that I think the more that can be done to welcome and get more involved in RMWeb the richer the whole site becomes. When it becomes the same old cronies spouting there is risk of becoming stale.

 

Besides we need someone to water down my posts.

[roger440]

As someone who only posts occasionally, and has achieved close to zero actual modelling of late, maybe my view isn't all that important, but here goes anyway!

 

 

Having been here since day one and lived through all the various trials and tribulations of RMWeb, I have to agree with Neil that simplification is the way forward. This really is a tremendous resource, but one that perhaps is becoming a victim of its own success. I say that purely from a personal perspective, something I guess we are all guilty of. If you asked a dozen members how they use RMWeb and the key elements of its success, you will get a dozen different answers.

 

I'm not sure if it's an age thing or not, but I'm finding that I am at the limit of my IT capability and whilst I can generally find my way round, there comes a point when learning how to access a specific area within RMWeb, that the learning process outweighs the benefits to be gained. Sadly the effect of this is that the percentage of the forum that passes me by is increasing on a daily basis. Reading one of your posts this morning Andy, took me to 'Frankland' something I had never seen before, despite spending an hour or two on here every day. I used to think not much passed me by, but here I can clearly see a very good thread slipped under the wire. How many more hidden gems are lurking within the site?

 

There are numerous icons on each page for Facebook, Twitter etc which as someone in their 60's and recently retired mean absolutely nothing to me. Of course I am conscious of the names, but they are not programmes I would access or find any use for. I know I am now in a minority as time has caught up with me, but I now find that to gain as much as possible from RMWeb, my IT skills would have to increase considerably and to be honest I don't have the time to learn those skills. What really surprises me is that three years ago I was working on complex 3D spreadsheets and could hold my own with anyone in the office. Now, I feel that for the first time, access to everyday web based programmes is starting to leave me behind and RMWeb is a good example.

 

The appeal from day one was the ability to give and receive instant feedback. A one list of topics meant posts could be accessed quickly and a few seconds here and there would immediately highlight what was of interest and what wasn't. I guess I still use RMWeb the same way, where the main point of entry is 'Active Content'. Of course this immediately excludes blogs, other than the one liner RSS Fetcher and I do feel that an increasing amount of interesting topics are just being completely missed.

 

This means a whole area of RMWeb is passing me by. I have never understood Blogs and what they could provide that a thread doesn't, so don't go there. I went to the Showroom a few times and whilst I applaud the ideas behind that, feel it will only be of interest once a month or so. Enevitably with this low useage, it will probably fade from view entirely in a month or two.

 

To my mind, blogs fall into the same pattern, in as much I feel they are offsite and therefore not visited.

 

So what has happened? The simplicity of the original site was its strength. It was open to all and you didn't need to be bang up to date with your IT capability. It's on this point that I totally agree with Neil. By all means have these new areas of the site, but they must feel part of the whole site and not a 'members only' area with membership dependant on the IT skills of the individual.

 

I realise I'm now in a minority and I'm not suggesting for one minute we lose all these areas or that the 'Facebook Generation' continue with the latest social networking packages if that's what's required. All I ask is that we simplify the portal to access these areas, so that we can all enjoy the level of modelling without requiring completely new IT skills.

 

Of course there is a real danger that those with the greatest modelling experience will be prevented for sharing those skills with the whole membership, as they cannot use the software required to upload their post.

 

So thanks Neil, for your post. It's good to know that at least one other member feels the same way. We love RMWeb, just require simplicity and access for all....

 

I couldn't really have put it better myself. I am a fair bit younger than you gordon, but certainly have no better grasp of the ever changing world of IT.

 

It is probably true that 99% or more of the membership are not into the "how to" of why the pages display in the way they do or where the content is located. They just see a black box connection to the internet, want to primarily read the content of RMWeb without having to perform somersaults with the keyboard and skipping exercises with their mouse, and those few who wish to respond in the spirit of the community simply want to be able to type their contribution a click send. They do not want to learn an alien language or click their way round half the world simply to get back to the same place they started from.

 

 

Again well said. Half this thread is full of people saying how you can do this and that with the forum. Frankly, its beyond me, and even if i made the effort to understand, i would have fogotton within a short while. Maybe ive got a poor memory, but this is one of my problems with IT, remembering all of the, what i call "hidden" functions.

 

What do you mean by the traditional way, Dave? I've used Active Content since the onset of RMWeb as I found that gave me access to all the posts and meant I could choose what was of interest. More often than not it would be something I would not have normally accessed if I limited my choice to a specific subject. I've been amazed by the gems I have found by broadening my own horizons as more often than not, posts regarding another scale or a different period have content that can be applied to your own interest.

 

To me Active Content IS the traditional method. I'd certainly like to hear about other methods and what advantages they offer. My fear is that you limit your exposure to subjects of one particular discipline and therefore miss so much if you don't use Active Content.

 

Martin, I don't think I have 'blogitus' as such. Perhaps it's a generation thing. I still have no idea what a blog does that is different to a thread. I understand that a blog is a web log, but is that any different to a diary of your activity? No doubt the younger generation are falling about laughing at this stage, but I haven't grown up with blogs so it's a bit of an unknown to me. If there is a benefit to be had by using blogs over threads then please tell me and I'll happily cross over if I can see the benefit. At this stage I'm not sure what would be different about Eastwood Town if written as a blog rather than a thread.

 

Of course I'm assuming there is a difference as there would be no point to blogs if there wasn't a difference....

 

Agreed, once again I dont understand the purpose of blogs. Me, i just look at the threads, because i understand it.

 

Hi Gordon,

 

Topic = different people write about the same thing.

 

Blog = the same person writes about different things.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

Interesting.

 

Hi Kenton,

 

If you change your View New Content setting to "All unread", it effectively becomes the same as Active Content and covers a much longer time period. See "Search Settings" at: http://www.rmweb.co....e&area=settings

 

Unfortunately, every time Andy does an upgrade it resets to "Since last visit" and you have to remember to set it to "All unread" again.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

This is an example of what i mean. Im just never going to remember this.

 

Basically, looking at the forum like this...

 

 

...and clicking on 'Hints & tips' and reading the latest posts, then going back to that page and clicking on 'Prototype Questions' and reading stuff in there, then going back and clicking on... and so on. I'm not looking for a discussion on which is the better method (summary: you're afraid of missing something, I don't want my viewing clogged up with stuff I have no interest in - horses for courses), I just don't believe that most RMWeb users access via Active Content. If they do, then we can do away with all the different forums and just have one big massive one and bung it all in.

 

However, this is also why I believe blogs don't get much interest, because they aren't accessed in the way described above.

 

Exactly how i have always used the forum. I always go into the "layouts" section to see what people are doing. Its a great section. From what i hear, i wont find Jim's New street there any more though?

 

We are all supposed to be intelligent people, so should we be spoonfed everything? Is it asking too much to spend a few minutes exploring what the new site configuration does? Switch out the menu and status updates on the right if you don't need or want them; use the new drop down menus to get where you want to go (I find 'manage blogs' especially useful when before it was several clicks to get there).

 

How you use the site to best advantage to me depends on a) how often you visit, and b ) how much time you have when you do. If you visit several times a day then 'view new posts' is my preferred initial course, and doesn't overwhelm you. Alternatively I might go to groups first to see if there is anything new of interest in my favoured areas. Or to 'manage blogs' if I have updated recently and want to check for comments (I chose not to be notified by email). If I'm in a hurry I might just go to 'my content' to check any updates to topics I have posted to before.

 

If you don't visit very often, then browsing around the individual forum areas or blog lists might be the best way.

 

But in any event, an hour or so exploring the new functionality should be enough for you to work out what is the best means for you of quickly accessing what you want.

 

I think this is a little harsh. Some people are good with IT and understand it and using it comes naturally. I consider myself to be resonably intelligent, but i would probably never figure out some of the things you suggest. "Switch out the menu and status updstes". What and how is this done?

 

If you like, compare it to cars. My mum and i can both drive a car. Regardless of the car we are presented with we can both drive it. However, if something does not function as intended, i'll get out and fix/investigate, my mum will simply call me or the AA.

 

Please dont assume everyone has the ability to understand the ways of IT. Unless the "control" is clearly and logicall marked, chances are i wont know its there and even if it is, i still might not understand.

 

For example, just why is there a + symbol on each post? Who/what is RSS Fletcher. He/it keeps popping up.

 

I find it hard enough to use the internet as it is with in numerous quriks, but please, lets not make it more difficult. Maybe i truly am the odd one out, but i doubt it.

 

The above is intended to be useful, even if it may appear otherwise!

[Adrian]

it is just that I cannot rationalise why someone joins such an interactive group and then doesn't take part in any way.

A few of reasons spring to mind. In my case it's simply not enough time in the day to contribute whereas the occasional reading is possible. Second reason is that some may refrain from commenting unless thy consider they have some thing worthwhile to add. Finally there is the classic quote, better to be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and confirm it.

 

Take your pick, but every member uses RMweb in a way that suits themselves and in my mind to try to rationalise why someone uses the forum in a different way to yourself is a pointless exercise.

 

 

 

 

[dajt]

I'm with gordon s. The only part of the site I use is the forum. I found RMWeb a few years ago and loved the scratchbuilding threads. Been here ever since.

 

The blog section seems difficult to navigate and to see what's there so I visited a couple of times and never went back.

 

I looked at showcase a couple of times and couldn't stand the scrolling images, didn't find anything as interesting as what's in the forum, so never went back.

 

I've joined a couple of groups, but not really looked at what is going on there.

 

I click on view new content once or twice a day and pick up on my favourite or new and interesting looking threads there, and that is how I use the site.

 

For me, a fast RMWeb with very little UI aside from what is required for the forum would be the way to go. Everything else is adding noise and complexity that I don't think many users want.

 

I'd work on making the forum part of the site more powerful and forget the rest. How I'd love to be able to tell the view new content feature to ignore various forum. There are many I don't ever look at which means I just end up having 9 pages of new content per day, with only one page worth I'm interested in hiding amongst the rest.

 

To put gordon s "keeping up is too hard" into context, I don't lack IT experience, just patience.

 

Regards,

David.

[Dave777]

For example, just why is there a + symbol on each post?

 

I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore as it's depressing me, but since this is a 'help' kind of post I can answer that.

 

The '+' sign is so that, if you agree with something that someone else has posted, you can click it to indicate that you agree or that the posting is useful, helpful, gives the right information, or if someone has answered a query and you wish to say 'thank you'. Generally it's referred to as the 'thank you' button, but the usage is a bit more widespread than that - I tend to think of it as giving a 'thumbs up' to what has been posted as that covers saying thank you, I agree, well done, good posting, or whatever. As you can see from your own post, 9 people (at the time of writing this) agree with what you have said, or have thanked you for posting it.

 

It was introduced so that threads didn't get clogged up with people just adding 'I agree' or 'Well done' replies. Some people like it as it avoids that very situation and keeps the threads clean & uncluttered, others prefer an actual 'thank you' reply instead when they have provided help.

 

 

It is detailed in the 'How-to Guides' section of the forum specifically in this thread here...

 

http://www.rmweb.co....osts-and-polls/

 

...where it's actually called the 'Reputation' button, which I suspect is the term used by the software developers. Also, the bit about negative reputation doesn't apply as that feature is disabled on RMWeb.

 

I will say however that I had to dig around a bit to find that bit of info. With that in mind, I notice that when you hover the mouse over the button it just says '+'. Is it possible to change that so that it shows 'Thank you/I agree/good posting' (or words to that effect) as that would more easily indicate what the button does...? Obvious to those of us in the know (or who were here when it was first introduced), but perhaps not as clear to someone starting today.

[Andy Y]

There's little value in changing that at the moment as it'll be a different system on the next version of the software.

[Pinkmouse]

Just pondering, whilst browsing the groups this morning, (idly waiting for the gasman,- anytime between 0800 and 2000!), and with a quick glance at the current survey results, how many of those in favour of groups would actually be quite happy with just sub-fora in the normal part of the board that fit their special interest. This is not meant to be a dig at Andy or anyone, I now think I understand what he was trying to do, just wondering if there's a more coherent way to do things.

[Andy Y]

I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore as it's depressing me,

 

Me too; I was hoping for some positive ideas to come forth and there has been some practical ideas but they have been swamped. Some of the criticisms are well considered and well intentioned whereas some others just come across as moans and it's quite obvious that some of the critical posts haven't actually read some of the posts I've written which advise on changes that will be forthcoming anyway.

 

I'm closing the topic off for now as there's a lot of distracting noise but members are free to PM if they have specific issues.