Karhedron Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (Why did they select Hawksworth coaches? There weren't all that many and they are yet more BR stock. (I know a w1$hl1t!) I suspect that it is more due to the fact that they fit neatly into the ever-popular "transition era". They can be run with everything from the last-gasp of the GWR through to green diesels. I doubt they were produced as a response to wishlisting, more likely the wishlists were indicative of underlying trends (it can happen ). I am still rather hoping that Dapol produce some in N gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 I suspect that it is more due to the fact that they fit neatly into the ever-popular "transition era". They can be run with everything from the last-gasp of the GWR through to green diesels. I doubt they were produced as a response to wishlisting, more likely the wishlists were indicative of underlying trends (it can happen ). And I like the fact that they cover such a large area... BUT... they don't really help me much! I'm waiting for Hornby to release the GWR liveried ones... then see what of them were actually IN that livery so I can add to my fleet. I already bit the bullet and ordered a Maroon Hawksworth 1st/3rd brake end to add to my two Maroon Collett's and a Crimson / Cream Bullied... y'know... for those inter-regional trains... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 I'm sure this will be seen as a 'left field' suggestion these days but how about looking at some books to get ideas? An excellent idea, unfortunatly not so easy to come by in Canada... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Most of the Hawksworths were built in the BR era so never received a GWR livery so you would need to be a little careful about this. As an side, earlier today I was watching a video of a what may be a non corridor midland coach being used with corridor midland stock. Although the footage does not show the full train* there is a very good chance that there was a B set attached to the back of this. This was from 1959 and was filmed in darkest Devon on the Kingsbridge line. * There is a brief glimpse showing 1 or 2 coaches more. For ex LMS coaches on the Western in even darker Devon, try this little gem http://www.bbc.co.uk...o_feature.shtml (I hope it plays OK in Canada!) (It's fun to spot how many different trains there are! - it should be only two of course - North Road to Yelverton and then the Princetown branch, haunt of the elusive 44xx tanks) M. Harris in 'Great Western Coaches 1890 - 1954' states that 260 coaches were to be built at the rate of one a week under the 1946 building programme, but this fell well behind schedule. Even as planned, this would only have resulted in between 100-150 coaches receiving GWR livery and the actual figure would have been somewhat less. It is also stated that initially they were not made up into set trains, so the odd one or two is quite prototypical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (Why did they select Hawksworth coaches? There weren't all that many and they are yet more BR stock. (I know a w1$hl1t!) Maybe because there are still a few of them about so can be laser scanned rather than trying to produce one from any drawings/photos that can be sourced. Wouldn't mind having one myself if they weren't so blinking expensive! Ricfhard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 An excellent idea, unfortunatly not so easy to come by in Canada... Fair comment, but there's always ebay. Just a thought. Maybe because there are still a few of them about so can be laser scanned rather than trying to produce one from any drawings/photos that can be sourced. Wouldn't mind having one myself if they weren't so blinking expensive! I cant see relatively run-of-the-mill coaches being scanned, it's still (as I understand it) a relatively expensive process. If you check out the Modelzone thread in the Hornby product forum, some of them can be had for £22.99 ATM The whys and wherefores of Hornby's choice, BTW, were done to death when they announced them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 I found a prototypical WR train that I now have all the parts to make up. All coaches are BR Maroon. Hawksworth Full Brake Collett Brake End Collett Composite Hawksworth Composite Stanier Composite Stanier Brake End Found this on a random google search.. was being hauled by a BR Castle.. not sure where the photo was.. but obviously it was a secondary route.. can not find it again, just my luck... But I think this will fit what I've been looking for.. As a secondary explress, the idea here is that the 5 coaches would run as a set... the full brake can be added / removed depending on need, and can be interchanged with any other full brake such as one of those short ex-LMS ones... an ex-GWR Siphon.. or even a Gresley full brake (not that I have one, but it could!), as they tended to roam quite a bit, and it was not unusual to find them on WR trains. As such, the mix and match appearance can be explained in a couple of ways... 1) It's an inter-regional working 2) The staniers are ex-Midland stock that has been transfered to the Western Region (as this actually happened) Anyone have any thoughts or comments? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vectislad Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 As a relatively new member my question may be hardly new but any feedback would nevetheless be welcome. I am endeavouring to find the most accurate paint for BR(w) "chocolate". Some paints are described as such, others are described as Western Region brown. Trying to find a standardised "chocolate" for a mixed rake of BRMk1s from Hornby and Bachmann together with some Comet catering vehicles is proving difficult to say the least. As the majority of Mk1s were (re)painted "chocolate and cream" within a limited timespan of 1956/7, they would have weathered more or less consistently and colour pix taken between 1956 and 1962 seems to confirm this. Any advice would be most welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 "The SR began painting new coaches in crimson / cream in September 1949." This may be correct, certainly the Tavern sets were bicolour, but it is (also?) true that BR(S) was turning out new loco hauled stock to Bulleid design, painted green, until c1951. It was, of course, turning out green EMUs too. K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted July 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 7, 2017 As a relatively new member my question may be hardly new but any feedback would nevetheless be welcome. I am endeavouring to find the most accurate paint for BR(w) "chocolate". Some paints are described as such, others are described as Western Region brown. Trying to find a standardised "chocolate" for a mixed rake of BRMk1s from Hornby and Bachmann together with some Comet catering vehicles is proving difficult to say the least. As the majority of Mk1s were (re)painted "chocolate and cream" within a limited timespan of 1956/7, they would have weathered more or less consistently and colour pix taken between 1956 and 1962 seems to confirm this. Any advice would be most welcome. Hmm. Colour can be tricky, as it looks different in different lighting conditions and is affected by the size of a model, tending to look more 'vivid' on a small area when you compare it to the real coach. And while your assessment of how they weathered based on the limited timespan of their introduction is not unreasonable, in some cases the stock was kept in fixed rakes for some time, and would certainly have weathered evenly over the rake, but others were broken up earlier and may have had different lifestyles after their top link named express careers. I suspect all the rakes were broken up by the beginning of 1963, but I am sure someone here will be able to guide us on this point. I believe the official description was 'brown and cream', though everyone called them chocolate, and it is my subjective impression that the brown was a little lighter than GWR chocolate, but that if there was a real difference is was very small. Advice, FWIW, is to paint the rake in the same colour throughout whichever colour you decide on, and to choose the colours that look right to you, which may not be the actual colours matched to prototypes. Hawksworth's are not easy to kit or scratch build due to the almost-but-not-quite-flush windows and the semi-elliptical roof with bow ends, but are no harder than any other coach to mould for mass rtr production, which is perhaps why Hornby originally went for them, along with the introduction of WR locomotives suitable to pull them. They are my favourite coaches in terms of appearance, especially in lined maroon; odd, because I prefer my Colletts in blood and custard, especially the bowenders; there is something very WR about that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 The old saying "Rome wasn't built in a day" comes to mind. The first wave of Mk 1s in chocolate and cream were observed in March 1956 but the launching of the new sets for the Cornish Riviera and Torbay Express [two sets each] was not until 11th June. The formations of both trains were augmented so the mix of new and repainted stock included some spares. This means that the main sets were used up to seven days a week but the spares only came out at weekends - scope for weathering at different rates. The other use of the spares was to replace vehicles that needed attention. The Bristolian was probably the third WR named train to be re-equipped, around July 1956, but by the end of the year its consist was substantially different. When the Red Dragon [one set] and Royal Duchy [two sets] went to chocolate and cream they had to make do with dining cars in blood and custard until sufficient had been reliveried. These were ex-GWR cars as the BR Mk 1 unclassed restaurant [RU] did not come on stream until mid 1957. The Cornish Riviera was given two new sets at the end of 1957. As the RUs entered service some existing open seconds were repainted to work with them. These coaches were given the coaching stock crest, which had been applied only selectively to the previously newly liveried stock. One of the last coaches to be given chocolate and cream livery was W301, one of the 1951 restaurant kitchen firsts that would later be rebuilt as a griddle car. With a restaurant second it replaced a pair of GW design diners in the Red Dragon at the end of 1961. By Easter 1962 the Cornish Riviera had been given a set of new Mk 1s in maroon and the other titled trains soon followed. An unfortunate restaurant car was W1914. When new it had been allocated to the Capitals United Express but on 1st My 1959 had moved to the Pembroke Coast Express and was badly damaged when the train derailed at Slough. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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