ejgray52 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Hi everyone. Back again with the latest instalment for those who are behind the UK... Issue 104 'Boiler lining transfers' (That's it!) The steps this week are to strip the chassis down and paint it, along with the wheels. The only fitting to be done are the pick-ups, if it is being motorised. I am assuming they came with the motorisation pack. Hope your Christmas's were great and you have a great New Year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscaler Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Happy to do so. The first photograph shows the inside of the tender body with the replacement inner supports (plastic card) in place. The rear and front horizontal supports (also plastic card) can also be seen as can the vertical strengtheners (again plastic card). All the plastic to plastic joints have been made with a liquid solvent glue which basically "welds" the material together to give considerable strength. Also visible are the four brass nuts (10BA) I've glued (araldite) to the top of the horizontal supports into which the bolts holding the tender footplate screw - this is the only point of weakness but see below. The second photograph shows the tender body from the underside and you can probably see that the front and rear plastic card supports are glued into notches filed into the replacement inner supports before gluing the latter to the tender body - just gives a little more strength and they certainly won't then move! The third photograph again shows the inside of the tender body from above and you can see that the rear verical strengthener does not cover the full width of the interior - this is to clear the holes moulded into the tender rear. The final photograph shows the upperside of the tender footplate with the holes through which the bolts go to attach the tender body are located indicated in red. In practice both the position of the horizontal spacers and hence the position of thesse holes are not critical but I've located them to clear any obstructions on the underside of my tender chassis. In case you're wondering, the nuts soldered to the top of the footplate are my replacements for the original chassis to footplate fixing points - I had to move these inboard of the originals as my chassis is built for compensation and the fixing bolts need to clear the sprung hornblocks - this would not be ncessary on a rigid chassis built "as suppled". Since devising the above, I've had something of a rethink regarding the brass nuts glued to the horizontal spacers. This is the only weakness and I'm considering replacing the current arrangement with a brass strIp onto which the nuts will be soldered. This strip would then be bolted to the horizontal spacers with countersunk 12BA screws from below. This would avoid any tendency of the brass nuts to part company with the horizontal spacer. For any others considering this, the brass strips should be readily available from the scrap remains of the etches supplied by Hachette. Hope this helps one or two fellow builders! Just one further point,. Much has been made of the original proposal by the publisher that glue would be suitable for assembly of a working model. My own view is that, regretably, glued structural joints are really not up to scratch as the forces imposed on, say, valve gear and the like during running will quickly reduce the joints to a distant memory. My own approach, therefore, has been to solder pretty much everything which can be soldered whether structural or not including all cast components. I've found that a phosphoric acid flux and 70-degree low-melt (for cast components) and an acid flux and 24swg cored solder (for etched components) has proved entirely satsifactory. When soldering etched to cast (e.g. loco buffer beam to the loco fottplate) it is necessary to "tin" the etched component with the cored solder and then attach it to the cast component with the low-melt. Not everyone, of course, will start the build with soldering experience but it's a skill well worth developing and not just for modelling! It does, unfortunately, require a certain financial outlay (one soldering iron is unlikely to be suitable for all the jobs required) but decent kit will last a very long time and can be used in any subsequent modelling of this kind. Those who have followed the adhesive route should be able, with a modicum of care and a small quantity of paint stripper, dismantle any glued assemblies (but keep the paint stripper away from any plastic components!). If a cack-handed individual like myself can learn to solder, I'm sure anyone can. All the best for Christmas and the new year! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscaler Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Hi Stan Thanks for the photos and the procedure to use. We are only at Part 84 down at the bottom of the world but all the hints and tips are very helpful. Have been kit and scratch building for a few years. Never come across a kit with so many problems that need fixing!! I have used Epoxy to attach my splashers so I am not looking forward to removing them, which I will try in the next few days. Thanks to all for the tips and pitfalls I have looming. Happy New Year, may kit building be less frustrating! Oscaler Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramskee Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 The Hammerite may well work, but is most definitely not designed for use on models, and may need thinning down a lot. Much better would be a suitable car paint primer, or a proper model paint primer. Hammerite special metals paint and thinners are meant to counter Zinc plating problems on steel items, notoriously fickle in getting paint to stick, and really may not suit brass or tin zinc alloys...,they are especially acidic, and take time to cure to neutral on the surface of the zinc plating. Not really a suitable primer for further delicate coats of paint that we need, but great on zinc garage doors!! Stephen. Thanks for the reply I bought the hammerite and gave it a try, not cheap here since it comes all the way from the uk, paid the equivalent of +/- 10 pounds for it. turns out it doesn stick to the whitemetal anyway. So it?› definitely no good. will keep it for the garage door rather Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramskee Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hi there, I use automotive acrylic on ALL my models. You will need an airbrush to do a decent job, and your first step would be to clean the parts COMPLETELY (and that means any glue or flux residue as well, then clean with "Prepsol" which will remove any wax, gease, finger oils etc from the item. Then use a light coat of "Bare metal etch primer" (it's usually yellow in colour. When dry, give it a light coat or two of grey auto primer, and fill any scratches etc, with auto "spot putty", then sand smooth with 1000 grit wet and dry paper, taking care not to rub through what you have put on. When all is done, give it another wipe with the "prepsol" and you are ready to apply the top coats of colour. If you use light reasonably "wet" coats you will get a reasonable gloss, if you use a dryer coat you will get a duller sheen. If you want a REALLY high gloss, apply a couple of LIGHT wet coats of "top coat clear" to those areas. It might sound a bit much, but the results are well worth it, be a little careful of plastic parts, they CAN be done with care, but you need to use very LIGHT coats, so that they dry before they can attack the plastic. However, if you are concerned about this, put a coat of "Isolator" on the plastic bits between the etch primer and the grey auto primer, and that will help the acrylic from penetrating. Body shops use isolator if they are putting acrylic over enamel to stop it "Frying up" . Isolator usually thins and cleans up with methylated spirits. Ask for a "fast drying thinners" for the rest I would suggest a visit to your local panel beater to pick his brains, take with you some glass jars with metal lids, and you might even freeload enough to do the job! For the green as required, you would be able to get one of these guys to mix you up enough to do the job at a minimal cost. Always wear a mask, the usual well ventilated area, no smoking or ignition sources such as stoves and heaters, dont do it on a humid cold or rainy day if possible, as this can cause problems with the finish. The product names used here are what we have available in Australia, there would be equivelents elsewhere, so print this out and take it with you to the panel beater and he should be able to follow it! Practice on some scrap bits first to get your technique right, if you mess up, soak the parts in methylated spirits overnight and the paint will wrinkle up and come away with a toothbrush. This is also a good trick for plastic models, as MOST plastics are not affected by meths! :-) If you need more info, let me know. Cheers, Bushrat Hi Bushrat, thanks for the reply. I will look into it. we only get two types of automotive paint here in SA. Duco ( this is an older type of paint, not that easy to find nowadays ) and 2K ( this is a two part paint application. the paint and a top coat hardener ) dont know if any of them are acrylic, they do both however require thinners so I would imagine they?•e pretty close ( I would think the 2K would be the route to go since the application of the hardener as a final coat would probably make it all the more tougher and durable ) cheers Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushrat Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hi Bushrat, thanks for the reply. I will look into it. we only get two types of automotive paint here in SA. Duco ( this is an older type of paint, not that easy to find nowadays ) and 2K ( this is a two part paint application. the paint and a top coat hardener ) dont know if any of them are acrylic, they do both however require thinners so I would imagine they?•e pretty close ( I would think the 2K would be the route to go since the application of the hardener as a final coat would probably make it all the more tougher and durable ) cheers Mark Hi Mark, I would avoid the 2 pak like the plague! 1: It takes too long to dry - you want it touch dry in a few minutes at longest! 2: To spray any 2 pak you need a completely dust free environment - a tiny dust speck landing on your wet paint wil have it "running away" in a big circle due to the breaking of surface tension. 3: By mixing a 2 pak paint, you only have "X" amount of time to use it, as it begins to harden by chemical reaction. This means that you cant keep mixed paint for touch ups, refinishing and other projects. It's almost impossible to mix the two parts in the tiny quantity you will need with any consistant accuracy (about 50ml I would reckon!) 4: Dont know how this would be on plastic bits. The old Duco sounds like it might be more suitable, they used to call the acrylic that here in Australia for a while but not 100% sure. Properly stored it can keep for years! If you dont do any good at the panel shops, try industrial paint suppliers and tell them what you need to do - there's lots of alternatives out there, just keep the basic technique in mind when you explain it to them, and see if you can scrounge a sample to experiment with. Be aware that some of these 2 pak and industrial finishes contain cyanide and other nasties - not good for the old airbags, so do be careful! Ask for a product data and safety sheet! Found an email address for 2K paints for you, maybe send an enquiry and see if the carry acrylic stuff, they can also colour match according to thier site, good luck mate! info@2kpaints.co.za Bushrat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramskee Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hi Mark, I would avoid the 2 pak like the plague! 1: It takes too long to dry - you want it touch dry in a few minutes at longest! 2: To spray any 2 pak you need a completely dust free environment - a tiny dust speck landing on you wet paint wil have it "running away" in a big circle due to the breaking of surface tension. 3: By mixing a 2 pak paint, you only have "X" amount of time to use it, as it begins to harden by chemical reaction. This means that you cant keep mixed paint for touch ups, refinishing and other projects. It's almost impossible to mix the two parts in the tiny quantity you will need with any consistant accuracy (about 50ml I would reckon!) 4: Dont know how this would be on plastic bits. The old Duco sounds like it might be more suitable, they used to call the acrylic that here in Australia for a while but not 100% sure. Properly stored it can keep for years! If you dont do any good at the panel shops, try industrial paint suppliers and tell them what you need to do - there's lots of alternatives out there, just keep the basic technique in mind when you explain it to them, and see if you can scrounge a sample to experiment with. Be aware that some of these 2 pak and industrial finishes contain cyanide and other nasties - not good for the old airbags, so do be careful! Ask for a product data and safety sheet! Found an email address for 2K paints for you, maybe send an enquiry and see if the carry acrylic stuff, they can also colour match according to thier site, good luck mate! info@2kpaints.co.za Bushrat Thanks Bushrat, I came across that site myself I??l get a hold of them, I have some Duco here that I had mixed up for an old box that I sprayed so I??l test it on some of the whitemetal leftovers and see what happens! will keep you informed. I haven even started my backhead yet cause I want to make sure I get the right paint for the job first. as for all the plastic bits I have replaced the cab roof with an alternative brass one. been thinking about doing the boiler too but thats a bit tricky so I??? wandering abou that one! cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramskee Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hi Mark, I would avoid the 2 pak like the plague! 1: It takes too long to dry - you want it touch dry in a few minutes at longest! 2: To spray any 2 pak you need a completely dust free environment - a tiny dust speck landing on your wet paint wil have it "running away" in a big circle due to the breaking of surface tension. 3: By mixing a 2 pak paint, you only have "X" amount of time to use it, as it begins to harden by chemical reaction. This means that you cant keep mixed paint for touch ups, refinishing and other projects. It's almost impossible to mix the two parts in the tiny quantity you will need with any consistant accuracy (about 50ml I would reckon!) 4: Dont know how this would be on plastic bits. The old Duco sounds like it might be more suitable, they used to call the acrylic that here in Australia for a while but not 100% sure. Properly stored it can keep for years! If you dont do any good at the panel shops, try industrial paint suppliers and tell them what you need to do - there's lots of alternatives out there, just keep the basic technique in mind when you explain it to them, and see if you can scrounge a sample to experiment with. Be aware that some of these 2 pak and industrial finishes contain cyanide and other nasties - not good for the old airbags, so do be careful! Ask for a product data and safety sheet! Found an email address for 2K paints for you, maybe send an enquiry and see if the carry acrylic stuff, they can also colour match according to thier site, good luck mate! info@2kpaints.co.za Bushrat Another link I came across, maybe you can have a quick look and see and let me know what you think http://www.plascon-automotive.co.za/default.asp?id=1064 cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Peter Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hi All,I've started to paint the wheels with Railmatch Doncaster Green (matt) can anyone tell me what Varnish to use ie:- matt/gloss,laquer or what ----ROB HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushrat Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Another link I came across, maybe you can have a quick look and see and let me know what you think http://www.plascon-a...ult.asp?id=1064 cheers Hi again, I had a look at the link, that product should work ok, but you will need to test it on some plastic, after all, we have been supplied with a lovely plastic tender! (so much for a brass model, but we wont go there, eh?) If you read the data sheet that is on that page you will notice that the procedure is fairly close to what I suggested, so it will probably be ok. BUT! Notice in the left column, they specify an air fed mask, so there are some nasties in this stuff. If you go and buy one it will cost you a mint, so you will either need to hire/borrow a mask or make one up. Not as difficult as it sounds, basically, all you need to do is get positive air pressure in the mask. A mate of mine once rigged one using an old, well cleaned vacuum cleaner (the barrell type that sucks in at the front and blows out at the back) hooked up to a full face scuba mask. He then placed this infernal device, with extended hose, (he used garden hose and gaffer tape) well away from the area he was working in so as not to pump paint fumes in and it worked just fine! He painted a mini bus and survived With the brass boiler, have a look at what "hudsonrobert" did, its on the old site. Looks great! cheers, bushrat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 30801 Posted December 31, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2009 BUT! Notice in the left column, they specify an air fed mask, so there are some nasties in this stuff. Cyanide I believe, is why you want to be careful with two pack paint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushrat Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Cyanide I believe, is why you want to be careful with two pack paint. Yep, dead right! Quite a few panel beaters ignored the safety data sheets when this first came out here is Aussie, and found to thier great sorrow that not only is it very toxic when being sprayed, but it sets quite well in the lungs as well..................... These days its all done in proper sealed spray booths with scrubbers, filters, positive pressure masks and protective clothing. Like I said previously, I would avoid it like the plague. I have done a fair bit of vehicle painting (not a tradesman) but acrylic is not near as dangerous to the novice as this stuff. I have never used it and never will, just not worth the risk if your not properly kitted out and trained. Mind you, having said all that is is an EXCELLENT vehicle paint. Not my choice on a model though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Just out of curiosity, how far finished are these models now (I've lost track of time)? Halfway, three-quarters, or is it too early to tell? I guess it depends where you're located, and how many issues have got lost, but I'm dying to see the first complete (or even nearly complete) model! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hudsonrobert49 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Hi does any one know where I can get a Collet or something, for a Dremel 300 to fit 0.3 and upwards Minni drill bits we use??? HAPPY NEW YEAR TO MY FELLOW BUILDERS, and the ADMIN TEAM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hudsonrobert49 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Hi does any one know where I can get a Collet or something, for a Dremel 300 to fit 0.3 and upwards Minni drill bits we use??? HAPPY NEW YEAR TO MY FELLOW BUILDERS, and the ADMIN TEAM. PICCY for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Was that for me? Thanks very much! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Peter Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 Hudsonrobert, Try B&Q----ROB,Awe-ra-best for 2010 :icon_clap: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejgray52 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Hi guys I was hoping to reveal the contents of issue 105 before the magical hour of midnight (UK time), but alas, for the first time in a couple of months it hadn't arrived at the newsagents... It was almost a regular occurence a while back, then got better. I went for the newsagent route instead of a subscription because it appeared easier to get things resolved. (Almost right, then!) Better than the 'Titanic'; I had a subscription with that one, several issues took months to arrive - reason given? 'Unprecedented demand' meant they had run out and had to print some more... Name of the distributor? Hache....something! Hope everyone has a better new year than this one going; all the best to you and yours. ejgray52 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex4wwl Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Hi, I have read all the posts, a wealth of info here, thanks, does anyone have a set of washout plugs(2) that came with part 1 Mine have gone missing Many thanks Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hudsonrobert49 Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Re collets for me new Dremel 300i, the Dremel website do a keyless chuck It will accept all accessory bits with 0.4mm to 3.4mm shanks, :icon_razz: should do the trick. :icon_thumbsup2: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hudsonrobert49 Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Hi, I have read all the posts, a wealth of info here, thanks, does anyone have a set of washout plugs(2) that came with part 1 Mine have gone missing Many thanks Alex yes but they need a bit of a polish :icon_thumbsup2: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pecksniff Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Hudsonrob49 I have a dremil 300 i got from b and q but I find the extras too expensive try ebay Happy New Year to all and its snowing again............ :icon_clap: Ted ........ :icon_wave: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hudsonrobert49 Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Hudsonrob49 I have a dremil 300 i got from b and q but I find the extras too expensive try ebay Happy New Year to all and its snowing again............ :icon_clap: Ted ........ :icon_wave: Hi pecksniff, yes your spoton they are WAY OVER the top, thanks and Happy New, no snow here :icon_wave: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Peter Posted January 2, 2010 Author Share Posted January 2, 2010 :icon_eek: It's peltin doon here! :icon_wow: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex4wwl Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 yes but they need a bit of a polish Hi, thanks, I don't need the rings, I need the inner pieces Many thanks Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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