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Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

Tor Giffard 2 1951-71 in P4 - North Devon/Cornwall LSWR (former routes)

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Hi Dave,

 

I wonder have you considered artists' acrylics at all - Burnt umber and something along the lines of hooker's green seem to be your main colours, and then they can be varied with other shades. The advantages are that you get more coverage per tube, and you get single pigment paints which can be mixed more easily, and - being acrylic - it dries quickly.

 

Just a thought. Nice work, as always.

 

Alan

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Mornin' Alan,

 

....I'm sure that there are various mediums which would produce the desired effect. The main reason for using e.g. polycarbonate with its known stability over time (whereas acrylic is known to become more brittle & prone to cracking) and enamels (again proved over many years to be stable and colourfast) is that I can't afford to have issues with unproven materials once the frames are complete and areas such as the river depths become inaccessible. It may be that other mediums are even better than what I've experienced so far but their risk level is unknown to me. 

 

Ongoing progress

 

Eileen's have supplied the 1.5mm styrene sheet which will be sliced into strips to mimic the upper corrugations of the Tavy viaduct deck. The edges will be rounded off and a similar colour scheme adopted to the prototype. The decision to go with the provision of prototypical 'timber baulks' as the principle support for the bullhead rail chairs has coupled with the idea of longitudinal polycarbonate beams as an ideal material to bond them to. Both bridge decks will be similarly equipped. The levelling sledge is now going to have to be used to level these first (polycarbonate being the harder material). The obviously softer cork sheet on the neighbouring frames will then be done to achieve the correct height relative to the polycarbonate.

 

A pleasant arrival this morning was 'Villages of Devon' by Francis Frith - photographic memories......a collection of Black & White images covering a wide range of villages from the late 1800s to mid 1900s. The village of Tor Giffard will be a gathering of scenes from around Devon, replicated from books such as this. The challenge being to recreate some of the character seen in the prototypes. 

,

The 5ft long strips of 3mm x 7mm polycarbonate, which will act as the longitudinal rail support beams on the model of the Tavy viaduct, arrived this morning...they have just the right degree of flexibility for 20 chain radius curves and have been very cleanly cut (probably on a band saw) http://www.nick-gray.co.uk/Polycarbonate_Sheet?gclid=CLXB26nek7sCFdOWtAoddHwAng   Compared with the prices which I was quoted for water jet cutting of the polycarbonate (the more common circular saw method being a bit risky with the saw operators pinkies on such fine work), a bill for £35 for all 6 strips seems very reasonable.

 

This mornings progress has been to adjust the height of the viaduct supports so that the 2mm aluminium deck is 8mm below the adjacent cork surface on the station to bridges frame. This allows room for 1.5mm of corrugation, 3mm of beam, 2.5mm of rail/chair and 1mm approx of cork to be sanded. The styrene strips/sheet in the case of the Barnstaple bridge will be bonded to the aluminium sheet then sanded flat simultaneously with the levelling sledge.

 

The second LSWR 10T etched brake van kit arrived this morning.

 

More bridge engineering today....some headscratching had been needed to fathom a way to add to the rigidity provided by the 4 longitudinal stainless rods beneath the 2mm aluminium sheet deck so that the deck became stable enough to be sanded by the levelling sledge without the bowstring sides needing to be in place. 1 inch 'L' section of the length of each bowstring section was sliced down to 10mm x 5mm (5mm vertical) and machine screwed to the underside of the deck to provide the outer edges (to which the bowstring sides will be machine screwed) of the deck. This technique looks like the way to go. 

 

A few of the Oxford diecast 1/76 model vehicles arrived yesterday...all will need to be painted/detailed to make them less conspicuous but most appear to be a reasonable starting point.  

 

All three 'L' sections are now machine screwed to the southerly side of the viaduct...the rigidity has increased dramatically. Once all 'L' sections are fitted to both sides then the underside will be sanded/levelled across the large plate glass reference surface.

 

.       

 

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

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Aft'noon all,

 

The deck edges/side stiffeners are now being added to the Plymouth route viaduct deck (a couple of the polycarbonate beams onto which the chairs/rail will be bonded can be seen placed on the deck)...see

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU3ioUtWRac

 

The clip starts with the lengths of 1 inch 'L' section which are being sliced to provide the stiffeners.

 

A few of the Oxford diecast 1/76 range which will be repainted & detailed for TG can be seen.

 

The clip finishes with what was the modelling conservatory....but for the next month will be the festive conservatory.

 

The deck now has all stiffeners fitted...the next task is to sand the underside level prior to fitting the caissons and 'masonry' supports

 

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

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Evenin' all,

 

As work progresses on the Plymouth viaduct, so design work on the Barnstaple viaduct continues.

 

 

The upper works will be in sheet brass with the bridge sections widening towards the double junction in order to accomodate the diverging trackwork. Most of the detail for the bridge will also be of various brass sections....the fittings for the brass tube caissons are causing a little head scratching but there are several options open.

 

Latest requisition is two of the portable compressor kits (road maintenance type) produced by Langley Models...these will be modified/detailed to resemble an early - mid 60s Holman (Camborne) variant and be mounted on two Lowfits. One of the freights on TG will be a diverted working ex Cornwall, travelling via Okehampton to Exeter behind a maroon warship.

 

Stewart Blencowe is supplying a 1965 WTT covering the Okehampton route, Plymouth to Taunton via Newton Abbot and Barnstaple/Ilfracombe routes for Passenger & Freight.

 

Three of the new 4mm brass kits for the Trestrol bogie plate wagon ordered.

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

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Evenin' all,

 

With the modelling conservatory in festive mode an alternative method of setting up the plate glass reference surface for 'flatting' the underside of the Plymouth route bridge deck was required. The large 1 inch thick sheet of foam from which the inter-frame strips are being sliced (for preventing light leakage from below on the river frames) appeared ideal (6ft x 2ft section cut out for the purpose). This meant that an almost level floor could be used and the sponge would still support the glass as a level surface.

 

The protruding stubs (beyond the nylok nuts) of 2mm machine screws used to attach the L section strengtheners to the sides of the bridge deck were first sliced off with a slitting disc.

 

3 x 6ft lengths from a 10m roll of 60 grade abrasive were then attached to the glass with double sided sticky tape and the deck assembly sanded to & fro across the abrasive surface. 

 

 

there are a few minor imperfections to be filled but the bottom of the deck is now nicely level across the deck sides/protruding nuts etc and square to the deck sides, to which the bowstring sections will be attached.

 

The Bachmann N class mogul & forthcoming Hornby 700 class Drummond (black motor) will feature on TG but not with Ultrascale wheelsets (they don't do the wheels and have no plans to). Scalefour Society rejoined in an attempt to find the best route to both P4 conversions. 

 

Within the 20 year operating timescale of TG there will be several distinct periods of trains chosen to allow the most interesting (to me) prototypical sequence. As work on the layout progresses so operating priorities are revised:

 

circa 1951/52: opportunity for earlier steam types/liveries; locos already awaiting conversion inc: Hornby T9, Dapol Beattie well tank, Hornby West Country

 

circa 1958/59: steam/diesel mix with no yellow on the loco ends; locos already awaiting conversion inc: 2 x Hornby rebuilt West Country, Hornby West Country, Dapol Beattie well tank, Hornby M7,  Bachmann class 42, Dapol class 22. Services inc. diverted Cornish Riviera Express with all over green D8XX Warship;

 

circa 1966/67: mostly small yellow panel diesel loco ends; locos awaiting conversion inc: Bachmann class 42, 2 x Dapol split headcode class 22; 3 x Dapol Western; Heljan 35; sunset of through services via Okehampton; maroon D8XX Warship on Plymouth to Brighton service with blue/grey and green stock

 

circa 1970/71: diesel, last maroon coaches; locos already awaiting conversion inc: 2 x Bachmann class 46,  ; green class 25s replacing class 22s; classes 35/42/45/46/52 on Meldon quarry services

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71
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Evenin' all,

 

The Plymouth route viaduct is now being machine screwed to to its baseframe. 'T' section supports (which will be hidden within the masonry abutments at each end of the structure) will be clamped into position, whilst all levels are found, before being drilled and screwed to 'L' section mounted beneath the sheet deck. Narrow 'L' section supports will then be screwed to the masonry arch side of the 'T' sections above the deck to complete the job. A lengthy Templot printout was first accurately positioned to confirm the exact positioning of the viaduct relative to the embankment on which the station will stand, before all positions were marked onto the baseframe. The 'T' section support positions were marked out ready for slitting with the disc cutter so that the supports could pass through the baseframe deck. 

 

 

The step between the sheet bridge deck and the adjacent frame surface is to allow for the metal section of the bridge deck to be built up with 'timber' baulks. The Templot print shows the widening of the track spacing at the Plymouth end of the viaduct on the approach to the twin tunnel mouths, whilst at the Exeter end of the viaduct the pointwork allowing access to the goods run-round loop behind the station can be seen. Within the 4 brass bridge deck support caissons will be M10 threaded bar which will allow for exact adjustment of the bowstring sections to level.  

 

Useful reference images gratefully received (for modelling the bridge deck) include these of the Tamerton viaduct (a short distance from the Tavy viaduct):

 

post-7795-0-85731800-1387904324_thumb.jpg

 

post-7795-0-37723000-1387904444.jpg

 

post-7795-0-55607700-1387904485.jpg

 

post-7795-0-88092300-1387904516_thumb.jpg

 

These close up views of the Little Petherick Creek bridge caissons (as well as a collection of images of the Tavy viaduct) will be used to design the supports for the model viaduct (note the cast concrete pillar within the cast iron cylinder arrangement)

 

 

Order placed with Slaters for one of each of their embossed stone/brick plasticard sheets...for (hopefully) matching to the stone building style used on the prototype.

 

Probably the most difficult day on the layout so far has seen the Plymouth route bridge aligned, clamped and machine screwed squarely to its baseframe. Even with careful planning the uprights somehow still required trimming with the disc cutter in order to avoid the longitudinals at the base of the frame. Work can now start on drilling the river surface/baseframe so that the caissons can be fitted and the final adjustments made to the deck before the 'fitting out' of the upper works starts. The positive notes of this session include the realisation that the intended strength of the basic bridge assembly is combining with the the rigidity of the baseframe to give a 'rock solid' support to the track bed...essential in P4. 

 

Latest arrivals are 400 24mm x 60mm coverslips for laminating/shaping for all glass requirements on TG.

 

http://www.ukge.com/en-GB/Microscopy/Slides-and-Coverslips__c-p-0-0-12-202.aspx?gclid=CPuWxpz6ibwCFYsKwwodQCwAgg

 

A diamond tipped scriber with various head attachments and a pair of wide jaw glass splitting pliers are currently en-route from the U.S.

 

http://www.tedpella.com/tools_html/54410.htm

 

The rollercoaster of designing & building this layout 'on the hoof' has seen a 'ureka' session follow on from the sheer hard slog of the last session. There are now two designs of 'adjustable leg support' and a 'shared support clamping arrangement' in use beneath the river panels....much better to gently align 6ft of aluminium/polycarbonate composite, than to try and force it. The latest 'leg support' design has a correctly spaced 'U' cup arrangement at the baseframe end.

 

Close study of the caissons beneath the little Petherick viaduct is providing clues for the fitments to the 32mm O/D brass tubes beneath the model viaduct...slicing 10mm dia copper pipe into different width lengths should provide the correct curve profiles for shaping/soldering around the brass tube. Plenty of experimenting to follow.

 

Three of Macgeordie's (of this parish) brass Trestrol etches are now heading this way, to become the first 3 wagons in the steel plate traffic to Appledore shipyard flow. The previously mentioned A1 etched version was simply too inaccurate to be of any use and a virtual scratch build was on the cards...a lesson in expecting too much from a dated kit. 

 

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71
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Evenin' all,

 

Back to the apprentice days of the early 1980s in the Creda training centre today, with a long session of metal forming and soldering.

 

Progress includes the development of the first caisson....10mm diameter copper pipe was sliced longitudinally (with the disc cutter) into various widths of curved strip, the flash filed off and the strip formed around a similar diameter tube to the caisson into a ring. This was soldered around the top of the caisson..a ring of similarly formed small diameter brass tube was then soldered around the top edge of the first ring to reproduce the basic profile seen on the caissons of the Little Petherick creek viaduct. The technique worked well with only moderate fettling required to produce a satisfactory and strong result....the profile still needs more work to replicate a prototypical caisson top.

 

The clip opens with a pair of redpolls watching progress in the conservatory...followed by a couple of clips of the new style of river baseframe adjustable support. Several views of the caisson work underway can be seen too    

 

 

A somewhat frustrating session attempting to improve yesterdays caisson work....comparing the model caisson top profile with the prototype suggests that this isn't the ideal technique for the task in hand (the percentage change in max diameter at the top of the model caisson is nowhere near that demonstrated by the prototype). A better result is likely to be achieved by removing the copper and brass work added then slicing the end of the caisson to the depth at which the profile changes (at 5mm intervals approx around the diameter of the tube). The segments of the caisson top will then be bent outwards to the angle required before adding a single hoop of small diameter brass tube to the top. This will make the process quicker and neater and should produce a more accurate result.      

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71
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Evenin' all,

 

...viaduct caissons take 2.

 

Once the 32mm OD brass tube was stripped back to plain tube the top edge was sliced to a depth of 5mm around its circumference, the sliced extremities were then formed over 3.2mm OD brass tube to create the lower curve (of the top of the caisson). 3.2mm brass tube formed into a ring was then soldered around the top edge of the caisson. .7mm brass wire was then soldered around the angled but gapped extremities, ready for a solder fill to produce a solid surface. Once the assembly was fettled/squared a ring of 2mm brass tube was soldered around the bottom edge of the above work above to replicate the lower part of the caisson top with a solder fill added to create a solid form. This was then fettled/filed into the finish seen in the clip. See

 

 

The other caisson for the first pair is now at a similar stage to the first. The closest up pictures of the Tavy viaduct underparts are now being studied ready for creating the diagonal bracing/latticework linking the two tubes.

 

The best close up images that I have for the below deck latticework include these 

 

 

Although these are of the Little Petherick Creek viaduct, there are many parallels with the details of the Tavy viaduct.

 

Close scrutiny of the footage of the LPC twixt caisson latticework on the HD TV shows that two gauges of 'L' section are the main components, arranged in a X X X manner similar to that in the bowstring arches in the clip above. A stock of 1x1mm 2x2mm & 3x3mm L section brass ordered from Eileens.

 

Several of the regular readers of this thread have reported pornographic advertising scenes appearing after some of the later video clips had finished....this was apparently due to the video count reaching 18 (more than one clip can be identified by the same number) and on 'U' tube the 18 has been 'tagged' by the promoters of the porno films. I've now renumbered/re-named the clips affected so that it shouldn't happen again...apologies to those who were offended. Ironically, I've since had a couple of complaints that I've gotten rid of the most interesting part. 

 

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71
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Mornin' all,

 

TG currently stands at its biggest crossroads so far..roundy roundy (continuous fiddle yards) 38x20ft overall or long & thin (the original format of choice) 60ftx10ft overall are the options. As an exhibition layout the former (originally discounted because I'm no fan of express passenger trains on 10 chain radius curves, even in the fiddle yard) looks like the option to go with but my own favourite is the long & thin...either way the scenic section will be the same.

 

post-7795-0-21742400-1390731334_thumb.jpg

 

What do you think?

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

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Mornin' all,

 

TG currently stands at its biggest crossroads so far..roundy roundy (continuous fiddle yards) 38x20ft overall or long & thin (the original format of choice) 60ftx10ft overall are the options. As an exhibition layout the former (originally discounted because I'm no fan of express passenger trains on 10 chain radius curves, even in the fiddle yard) looks like the option to go with but my own favourite is the long & thin...either way the scenic section will be the same.

 

attachicon.gif10 C Vers 9.jpg

 

What do you think?

 

Dave

Dave, if you go long and thin you are going to have to do a lot of walking from one end of the layout to the other, particularly if you are operating on your own. Ian Futers had such a layout once (yes, believe it or not it had more than three points :)) and he said after one exhibition that he wished he had brought a pair of roller skates with him. Personally I would go for the roundy-roundy as apart from testing it is sometimes nice just to sit down with a glass of something suitable and watch the trains go by.

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....thanks St E, Mike....certainly more positive comments for the roundy at the mo. The pleasure of the design & build process isn't diminished with the switch but it'll  mean a re-evaluation of the number of baseframes required and how they will be stored in the workroom.

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

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Mornin' all,

 

TG currently stands at its biggest crossroads so far..roundy roundy (continuous fiddle yards) 38x20ft overall or long & thin (the original format of choice) 60ftx10ft overall are the options. As an exhibition layout the former (originally discounted because I'm no fan of express passenger trains on 10 chain radius curves, even in the fiddle yard) looks like the option to go with but my own favourite is the long & thin...either way the scenic section will be the same.

 

attachicon.gif10 C Vers 9.jpg

 

What do you think?

 

Dave

 

Roundy roundy for shows Dave, much easier on the feet!

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....thanks Chris...I won't have the space to have it fully set up here either way...the intention is to exhibit it and the logic of the round is undeniable for that.

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71
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Evenin' all,

 

Current progress with the layout involves creating the latticework struts for fitting between the caissons of the Plymouth route viaduct. 1mm & 2mm 'L' section brass sections were sourced from Eileen's to replicate the design shown in the bowstring arches of the Little Petherick creek viaduct creek clip above...albeit to a straight/parallel sided pattern. Taking comparative measurements from the prototype suggested an overall width of 8mm for the assembly, therefore the 2mm 'L' was spaced to this and the first 1mm 'L' diagonal soldered in at 45 degrees. The two peg technique was then used to maintain the angle and spacing of progressive 1mm diagonals. Once the 250mm length is complete then it will be sliced in half and soldered back to back. See

 

 

Some corrective work to several of the diagonals was required before the 250mm length was ready for the next stage. The benefit of practice though is that you spot/prevent issues earlier each time.

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

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Aft'noon all,

 

More work on the first 250mm lattice length has seen it fettled, sliced in half, soldered back to back on itself and fitted to one of the caissons. The clip shows both plan and side views as well as the filing method for the 1mm 'L' diagonals before snipping. Also, the method of soldering .7mm wire to the lattice ready for soldering into pre-drilled holes in the caisson, can be seen.

 

 

The first lattice is now soldered between the pair of correctly spaced caissons and the next lattice section is underway.

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

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Good afternoon Dave. Just dropping in to say how inspiring this work of yours is. I'm about to embark on something a little south east of your 'place' and I can see here so many extraordinary pieces of construction. I look forward to seeing this out on the road; mine will be residing in the loft!

Sincerely, Phil @ 36 E (but about to commence Honiton). 

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...thanks Phil...I can only describe the challenges associated with this entire project as being like a rollercoaster...one minute progress is flowing...the next it is just a series of stone walls. Yes, I'm glad that it is demanding...but sometimes just not so much.

 

Good luck with your project...I'll look forward to seeing you progress with it.

 

Dave

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Hi Dave. I think mine will be more a train-set. However I can run the up and down ACEs east of Exeter, but will that give me 'satisfaction'?

Good luck with yours too. I will be 'lurking'......

P

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...not sure whether it helps Phil but plan something that will stretch you.

 

Incorporate a few things that you'd like to have a go at but might regard as ambitious at the moment.

 

Dave

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That will be the Honiton Station Buildings then...........! Thanks matey. Great advice.

P

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Mornin' all,

 

Latticework on the viaduct supports continues...with sub-assemblies being trial-positioned onto pre-marked graph paper to ensure that all is square and correctly orientated.

 

The more tricky part of correct spacings for the lattice 'X' assemblies between the caissons is being worked on just now....see

 

 

There comes a point with lattice construction where you 'get your eye in' and achieving the desired result gets quicker and easier. The etching route then seems unnecessary for this moderate amount of work...especially when considering the time required to master the CAD program chosen and the relative inflexibility/waiting time when you're 'designing on the hoof'. 3 different styles of lattice don't count in favour of the etched route either.

 

A visual reminder of the desired end result....albeit a somewhat shorter 3 bowstring sections and 2 sets of caissons. Photographer unknown at the moment.

 

post-7795-0-73585200-1391814570.jpg

 

In a break from lattice production a few experiments with the production of stock boxes have provided an attractive diversion. The basics have been foolscap box files and foam sheets (sliced into narrow widths) to cushion the stock within. More experiments to follow.

 

Some of the stock for TG had a welcome leg stretch on Dick Petter's impressive 'Knutsford East' recently....although this is set 1940ish and of LNWR origin, somehow a green Dapol Western and a green Dapol splitbox class 22 took turns to haul a short freight around this lovely layout. Full marks to Dapol as each loco ran flawlessly.

 

Sufficient lattice sub-assemblies are now on hand to allow construction of a complete deck support to get underway. However, experience with constructions in brass suggests that all sub-assemblies should be thoroughly cleaned/excess solder removed first. Thus, an ultrasound bath has been ordered (with cleaning solution) along with a couple of extra glass fibre brushes. 

 

The Ultrasound bath arrived today, was immediately tested with the latticework produced thus far and successfully de-crudded them.

 

The glass-fibre brushes from RS electronics are good for not shedding fibres easily.  

 

Plenty of practice with the solder wick/iron and wet/dry paper at the moment...removing excess solder ready for the u/s bath to finish the job.   

 

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71
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Go for roundy roundy Dave.

 

Our 'interim' fiddles for BCB are a right faff, in fact we are now prioritising the roundy roundy solution.

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....I'd observed the fun that you were having.

 

Roundy roundy is certainly the concensus of opinion for TG Damian and the likely outcome.

 

 

Ongoing progress

 

Latest arrival this morning is a pair of axle spacing jigs from Brassmasters.

 

Scrawking experiments using 0.25mm gauge nickel-silver sheet suggests that this is the material to use for the bowstring arches of the viaduct...light but flimsy. Obviously, strength will result from soldering the sections together.

 

Thank goodness for graph-paper....the first lattice sub-assemblies for the caisson/lattice deck supports are now being soldered together using web-plate styles observed on the Little Petherick Creek structure. There are a least a couple of plate styles used in different situations on the supports.  

 

Dave 

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

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Aft'noon all,

 

More techniques being developed in this clip

 

 

The web plates for securing each sub-assembly to the next will be cut from nickel-silver strip to the design shown and either tack soldered to a 'handle' of n/s strip or else drilled to take a pin (the pin used with pliers for the same positioning reasons). Comparison of the profile views of the lattice 'X' on the clip with the Tavy viaduct picture above suggests that the profile should be similar. Flat pine board is being used with the graph paper and dress makers pins to allow fine adjustment/positioning of the sub-assemblies ready for the web plates to be soldered into place.

 

Dave 

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71
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Evenin' all, Work progresses on fitting the latticework between the caissons

 

 

The straps attaching the lattice to the caisson are 5mm wide and scrawked from .25mm nickel-silver sheet. They are are tack soldered initially for positioning purposes but will be fully soldered once I'm happy that all is square.

 

Latest arrivals are the Ultrascale wheelsets for the 3 coach Comet Bulleid set 857. Current sourcing of rolling stock includes the milk tank kits/detailing etches for the 8 x 6 wheel milk tanks which will form the two milk trains on TG. I already have the Ratio kit for the bogie SR van which will combine with 2 tanks (of different origin) and the M7 for the 1950s working. The 1965 working will be formed of one of my Dapol class 22s, a Hornby 50ft LMS bogie brake (pre-ordered for September) and 6 x 6 wheel milk tanks.

 

6 x milk tank kits ordered from David Geen and the associated etched parts ordered from Justin Newitt...be still my chequebook!!

 

The 2 ex LNER & SR milk tanks are still awaiting the availability of etched components.

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

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