Lineside relay cabinets

[Pete the Elaner]

Until recently, I've not paid any attention to these & I've certainly not used then on any of my previous layouts.

I've been looking at these on the WCML recently to get some idea of where I should place them on my current project.

I had assumed that 1 or 2 would be placed by each signal or point with a cluster of them at junctions, but this seems to not be the case. I have seen them on a plain section of track & I have seen signal gantries with none very close by.

 

Can anyone suggest any guidelines for these regarding placement?

[Grovenor]

Period?

Type of signalling?

Regards

Keith

[The Stationmaster]

The questions Grovenor asks are very important - styles varied greatly between the BR regions and the type of cupboard used and its colour was as much a clue to Regional identity as the colour of station signage while the modern electronic systems have had further influence on style and placement.

[Pete the Elaner]

Period?

Type of signalling?

Regards

Keith

Oops, good point. I forgot to mention that.

 

I am modelling early 1990s, 2 track main line with 4-aspect bi-directional signalling with AWS. Area is West London.

If possible, I also want to make the layout easily updateable to 2010.

I have 1 trailing crossover on the line with 1 siding.

[The Stationmaster]

Oops, good point. I forgot to mention that.

 

I am modelling early 1990s, 2 track main line with 4-aspect bi-directional signalling with AWS. Area is West London.

If possible, I also want to make the layout easily updateable to 2010.

I have 1 trailing crossover on the line with 1 siding.

Ah, but which Region in West London?

[Pete the Elaner]

Ah, but which Region in West London?

The old Dudding Hill line from Cricklewood to Acton. My layout is based between Willesden Junction & North Acton, on the pretense that passenger services still run on the line & they built a station by Victoria Road.

I'm modelling an AC/DC changeover at the station.

[TheSignalEngineer]

The area around Acton Wells Junction was altered in 1990 for the upgrading of South West Sidings to running lines when the old connection at North Pole was taken out to build the Eurostar Depot.

 

The work was done by staff from the LMR based at Willesden and Bletchley.

 

The main equipment room at Acton Wells was a 40' x 8' Relocatable Equipment Building, I think from Presco Buildings Ltd.

 

IIRC the trackside location cases came from Henry Williams Engineering, at Darlington. They were BR standard design to the BRS-SM-440 series drawings. Pre-wiring was done at Willesden S&T Depot in Old Oak Lane.

 

Power points were all operated by Hydraulic Rail Clamp Locks, and signal structures were to BRS-SM 2060 series drawings fitted with ML Engineering heads. (EDIT) If you have 3rd rail, don't forget that the AWS magnets used were different from the standard ones.

 

I think I still have an article about the work which was written for an in-house magazine.

 

At that time the mechanical boxes at Acton Canal Junction and Dudding Hill Junction were still in use. The Cricklewood end of the line was worked from West Hampstead PSB, which was installed by Westinghouse in the 1980s.

Edited February 22, 2012 by TheSignalEngineer

[phil-b259]

Until recently, I've not paid any attention to these & I've certainly not used then on any of my previous layouts.

I've been looking at these on the WCML recently to get some idea of where I should place them on my current project.

I had assumed that 1 or 2 would be placed by each signal or point with a cluster of them at junctions, but this seems to not be the case. I have seen them on a plain section of track & I have seen signal gantries with none very close by.

 

Can anyone suggest any guidelines for these regarding placement?

 

FIrst thing to say it depends on the specific signalling requirements rather than any mandated distances.

 

Location case placement is determined by need alone, so it is entirely possable for a set of signals to not be immediatley adjacent to a case if the designer has decided that another place may be more benifical. For example on lines worked by track circuit block, in plain line areas, the track circuits do not start and finish adjacent to the signal because the standard 200 yard overlap is simply a continuation of the track approching the signal (giving rise to the sittuation where a signal stays green even after a short train has gone past it). Thus the designer may decide it benifical to put the relays controling the signal with the track circuit equipment and feed the signal by a long tail cable for example. In other situations it might be reversed and it is the track circuit equipment that gets moved to locations close to the signal.

 

Another thing to consider is that in some places the distance between consecutive signals may be too long to be covered by a single track circuit. Thus what appears to the signalman as "AB" track actually consists two seperate tracks (i.e. "AB-1" & "AB-2") which will naturally result in a location case appearing at the join between the two and not asociated with signals.

 

Regional practices and date of the installation can also produce variation the placement of location cases as can the technology used in the signalling scheme itself. For example axle counters can be employed to get rid of long multi section tracks and SSI based signalling has reducded the number of lineside multicore cables, but may end up requireing more location cases as the SSI modules themselves are not small.

 

All rather complicated however I'm sure that others on the forum will be able to provide more details

Edited February 23, 2012 by phil-b259

[TheSignalEngineer]

The old Dudding Hill line from Cricklewood to Acton. My layout is based between Willesden Junction & North Acton, on the pretense that passenger services still run on the line & they built a station by Victoria Road.

I'm modelling an AC/DC changeover at the station.

Do you have a sketch of the layout, I'm sure we could put some suggestions on it for you.

Edited February 23, 2012 by TheSignalEngineer

[Pete the Elaner]

 

Do you have a sketch of the layout, I'm sure we could put some suggestions on it for you.

 

I have no idea where the original plans are & they were too big to scan anyway so I 'll re-draw them in a more useful scale.

 

All the above posts are helpful . I am changing history a little by putting a station on this line so I imagine this would change signalling too.

[Colin Stewart]

there are also telecom location cases in the same area, either for transmission systems or where the lineside telephone cable tails run back to, they may not necessarily be adjacent to the signal and may also be in the smaller single door location cases.

 

Hope that helps

 

Colin

[Mallard60022]

No idea if these pics will be of any use? Donny 2011.

P @ 36E

Edited February 23, 2012 by Mallard60022

[ess1uk]

I was only at Acton Wells the other week, they are in the process of transferring Bollo Lane and Kew boxes to ne new panel there.

Didn't take any pictures I'm afraid

[adanapress]

Acquiring many models of these boxes might be a tad expensive, so may I draw the attention of any cash-strapped modellers to the possibilities available using the safety shroud from bic disposable razors, normally thrown away. They might have other uses too. And maybe the handles?.

[ess1uk]

Acquiring many models of these boxes might be a tad expensive, so may I draw the attention of any cash-strapped modellers to the possibilities available using the safety shroud from bic disposable razors, normally thrown away. They might have other uses too. And maybe the handles?.

Any photos to show how you have done this?

[Eggesford box]

Hi,

as well as relay cabinets near pointwork you are also likely to have a cabinet which may or may not look similar to a relay cabinet containing point clips and scotches in case of point failures (or if certain contractors have been working in the area a cabinet that used to contain....).

[Southernman46]

and their orientation to the actual track differs too - modern-ish practice is to place location cases with the doors perpendicular rather than parallel to the track to minimise the "back to traffic" working for technicians.

[Merfyn Jones]

and their orientation to the actual track differs too - modern-ish practice is to place location cases with the doors perpendicular rather than parallel to the track to minimise the "back to traffic" working for technicians.

 

Known in th trade as 'toastracking'

[ess1uk]

And the really switched on put a railing aroung cases now so there is even less risk

[Trog]

Until recently, I've not paid any attention to these & I've certainly not used then on any of my previous layouts.

I've been looking at these on the WCML recently to get some idea of where I should place them on my current project.

I had assumed that 1 or 2 would be placed by each signal or point with a cluster of them at junctions, but this seems to not be the case. I have seen them on a plain section of track & I have seen signal gantries with none very close by.

 

Can anyone suggest any guidelines for these regarding placement?

 

Take a look at your layout from a distance think where if it was real there would be a possibility of new track being laid in the future, or places where the P-way might want to get access, then put a location box right in the middle. If there is a disused track bed next to some flat land, build a relay room on the trackbed, the P Way will pay to shift it if they want to reuse the trackbed. It is the same with troughing routes just run then on the easyest alignment, don't worry about going round catchpits, compromising the ballast shoulder or obstructing access to the line.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Good to see that the state of undeclared war between the Civils and S&T is still going strong.

[Trog]

Having done this then go round your layout and carefully pull on all the cables. With some practice you can break the internal cores without breaking the insulation.

[ess1uk]

Or better yet have a subcontractor cut your working cables whilst they are doing a new install, go and repair it only for them to cut it again a few days later.

 

If you are modelling the current railway then you will probably need a telecom distribution cabinet by every signal.

[TheSignalEngineer]

And don't forget to put your cross-track cables in orange pipes so that the tamper drivers can see to hit them more regularly.

[Trog]

And don't forget to put your cross-track cables in orange pipes so that the tamper drivers can see to hit them more regularly.

 

 

Thats rather high tech, I once saw an S&T team somewhat puzzled because the track circuit they were testing had gone down when a train had passed on another line.

On investigation they found that the train had cut the cables, so they rejoined them and returned to their testing, only to have the same thing happen again.

Light then dawned and they re-routed the cables to run under the rails and joined them again, this time the track circuit stayed up.

 

I promise the above is true, I think what had happened was that they had run the cables out on top of the rails to sort out which was which. Then done the connecting and the first repair while on autopilot. As anyone who has done a lot of nights knows it is amazing how stupid you can be towards the end of a long nights work.