gormo Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 I love the feel of the manual system........but I am a bit old fashioned too !!!!..........and there is also the fact that you made the system yourself..........and that in itself becomes a personal achievement and part of the fun of model railways. I have always been a fan of the late Rev.Peter Denny and his Buckingham layout. The Rev. built his railway from scratch and was one of the pioneers and innovators in this hobby. If I can build anything half as good as the Rev. I`ll be a happy chappy. Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Gormo Love the lever frame, I am guessing its hand made, any more information on the build please Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 Gormo Love the lever frame, I am guessing its hand made, any more information on the build please Hi John Yes the frame is / will be hand made.......its not assembled yet........I`m still planning the number of levers required at each location.......If I could stop altering my track layout I would be a lot better off. So...????.......what are you wanting to know about??? If it`s materials / parts........I would refer you to my video # 3 earlier in this topic and also I posted a PDF file which contains measurements somewhere around there too.......otherwise..???......just ask me what you need to know and I`ll try to help. Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Brian Thanks, I seem to had missed the video. Answers all my questions and very impressed by the way you use the various types of Ali extrusions. The making of the levers were of most interest. I have a couple of lever frames, GEM mostly cast whitemetal and another made from sheet steel, as both use thin plate levers none have the tactile thickness of yours. Thanks great food for thought, I still plan to use slow motion point motors but fancy having a lever frame working them via microswitches, see my earlier posting ( reply 38 on page 2)of working signal box but I dont want the expence and worling of a fully interlocking system Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 Hi John Glad to be of help............I must say interlocking is not in the ball park I am exploring either.........I just put that in the too hard basket. The levers I am making are not difficult if you have a modest workshop or equipment. The key element I suppose is a Vice. I have made a couple of sleeves out of some steel angle to sit on the jaws of the Vice. The sleeves protect the work from the standard grips on the Vice. What it comes down to then is careful measurement and a bit of cutting and filing. I always make a template for each part and use that for all subsequent measurements of that part. Consistency is the thing and you will achieve that with templates. If you make a part and it`s just not right and it can`t be fixed...........use the tried and tested motto......" if in doubt, chuck it out !! " It`s important to develop a system of manufacture. I usually cut a bunch of blank pieces first.....eg. 60mm point levers. Then mark them out for shaping and drilling. I use a centre punch to mark my holes for drilling and of course drill all the holes first. Clean up the flashing on the holes, made by the drilling process, with a flat file. Then move on to cutting. The lever blanks have to be cut down the middle longitudinally. To do this I lay them in the Vice jaws horizontally with the cutting line just protruding above the jaws. The jaws then become a guide for your saw blade to push against and give you a consistent cut every time. Once cutting is completed , clean up with a file and emery paper and steel wool. The top rounded portion of the lever can then be shaped with a file or in my case I am fortunate enough to have a lathe. Either way works. I suppose another video might help..........Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Brian Being lazy I am hoping to find Ali strip near enough the correct width and depth 5mm x 3mm, then all I would have to do is drill holes and file a handle. I only have 6 turnouts and 2 signals as the rest of the signals will be groung signals, though in 7mm these could be made to work. The next thought process is what scale / size to make the levers (remember the oversize signal box). May have to buy a 4mm signal box detailing kit to have something to scale up from As for the frame its self everything above the floor can be cosmetic and ali angle, brass studding and a combination of nuts washers or tubing can sort out the spacing. I dont know if using microswitches will make it easier or harder for the linkage but will be a must as I want it to work either side of the layout and the turnouts are on 2 boards. Still its only in the planning stage as I am currently building the track and card mockups for the buildings Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 John Well.......????? ...Good Luck mate.......it sounds like a few things to be sorted..........but that`s the thing.......it won`t happen overnight ......but it will happen. If you can find the aluminium in the right size that will save some time and work.. Mock ups are a good idea........to give you a visual of what`s actually happening. On the subject of mock ups...........Ice confection wooden sticks come in about three widths and are available from craft stores.........the narrowest width is approx. 5mm x 150mm long and could make a reasonable facsimile of a lever........they are easy to cut and shaped and may assist with your planning. Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Hi John I'm looking at 'all' possibilities, and the sliders you described in post12 (plastruct square tubes etc) sound to be well within my capabilities!! Is there a 'write -up' for these, do you know, with maybe visuals to assist... as I'm wondering how best to link the inner rod/tube to the 'wiring system'... particularly one using the plastic snakes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Me again John... just to say I found a 'guide' to producing the plastruct sliders after googling 'using plastruct'. Happened to be on RMWeb!!!!!... and my thanks to the author! http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/186/entry-8263-making-tous-turnout-operating-units/ Just need to think about how best to join the plastic rod of a snake to the inner square tube. Shouldn't be that difficult ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Try as I might, I just couldn't fathom how to join the plastic rod of a snake to the inner tube made of plastruct (previous post)... so I'm off down your choc block route Andy and hope I have more success! I've chosn to use the '10Amp' variety in combination with the Sullivan Gold-n-rod 'snake' which has a 4mm diameter outer sheath (red) and an inner rod of 3mm (yellow) which has 'splines' along it's length to reduce friction. This is a snug fit in the 10Amp choc block. The brass rod I'v.e bought 'to keep things on the straight and narrow' (as Andy put it) is less of a snug fit, but near enough 3mm, and easy enough to locate centrally through the choc blocks. Also got some piano wire (just under 1mm diameter) which will rise from the centre of the centre choc block to the hole in the tie bar. To attach the wire to the choc block I've plugged the central (screw) hole with a piece of 3mm plastic rod (same depth of the hole - about 7mm - and pushed hard to fit) and drilled a hole 'dead centre' through it that's a miniscule less than the diameter of the wire (push very hard to fit!). I actually fitted the wire into the plug before forcing into the choc block. Once it's in there it'll 'never' move unless you give it an almighty tug! So far so good, I'm feeling, and will probably use plasticard to raise the outer choc blocks so that the centre one moves freely (as per Andy's tip). Might try and produce a 'ready to plant' unit as per the 'plastruct tube' approach. Before cutting the brass rod to length (is the Expo razor saw I've just bought the thing to use?), I'm wondering what distance/movement I should allow/provide between the choc blocks. The same distance the tie bar moves to change the points... a tiny bit more... or a good deal more??? Any help would, as always, be much appreciated. By the way, Andy, I'm not so sure, now, that it's essential to attach the outer sleeve of the snake to the choc block... so long as it aligns nice and straight and is well attached to the baseboard. Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Glad you're having success, Alan. Recently I've been using the sticky feet (the type used to route wires) to fix the system to the baseboard. But I wouldn't say it made life easier than a couple of bits of cardboard. You may be right about your last point. I just like to do a belt and braces approach. I'm going to try your idea for plugging the central hole. Quicker than waiting overnight for epoxy to set! All the best, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Gormo, Andy (and anyone else for that matter!)... any tips on how to make sure that 'everthing' under the baseboard properly aligns with the tie bar above... so that the rod to the tie bar does what it should. Imagine it's very important to get that right before screwing anything permanently... unless you can incorporate some kind of plate that allows adjustment eg with slits for the screws rather than holes. Maybe I'm being a bit 'over cautious'! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 This was, no doubt, the tricky bit and on the first one took help from Mrs AndyB. The 2nd and 3rd were easier and it wasn't such a big deal. Suggest you put one screw in first. Then check the best alignment, take a firm grip on the gizzmo, duck under the board and tighten the 2nd screw. If it's not quite right you'll have a hole in the baseboard where the screw was and this will be annoyingly close to where it would ideally go. Put a bit of filler in and have another go. Sorry can't offer a better way. I'd guess anyone putting in a Peco point motor has the same issue. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I think you're right Andy (last para) which is why ! 'opened' the tips request to all comers... Lets see if others want to share their ideas... for avoiding that annoying nuisance you mention! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted May 26, 2012 Author Share Posted May 26, 2012 Hi Guys I would take some wire........paper clip or anything else suitable that will pass through the hole in the tie bar. Bend the wire into the shape of a " T ". The length of the top of the " T " should be longer than the below baseboard mechanism. Pass the upside down " T " (_I_) through the hole on the tie bar from underneath the base board and clip it in place from above the tie bar with a clothes peg or bulldog clip or whatever will hold it in place. Make sure the wire protruding from the top of the tie bar is vertical in the north/ south and east/ west planes. Underneath the baseboard adjust the wire so it is at a right angle to the track above. Check above the baseboard again. If all is lined up correctly..........draw a mark out line along the wire under the baseboard and that will be your centre line for the operating mechanism. Correct placement of the mechanism is a matter of holding it to one side along that line and marking it appropriately. Hope this helps..............Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Thanks so very much, Gormo, that's the best 'how to do it' I've come across... only to be expected! Just one other thing 'while you're there', when you throw your lever, from one extreme to the other, how far does your vertical wire to the tie bar travel? Do you allow a bit more than the actual distance the tie bar travels to make sure the blades are 'tight' against the stock rails? I'm using piano wire (just under 1mm diameter) so I reckon it'll live with the strain. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted May 27, 2012 Author Share Posted May 27, 2012 Hi Alan Yes I give it a bit more travel...........I do it by feel really.......once the lever is moved to either position I check each rail that has moved and see how hard up against it`s main rail it is..........I like to have the sliding rail touching the main rail securely but not too tight. You should be able to spring it back slightly and it will return to the main rail comfortably. Do the same for the opposite position. My sliding rod is adjustable........so it`s quite easy.............if there`s no adjustment in your mechanism, you`ll have to find the sweet spot by trial and error..........Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Cheers Gormo, most helpful.. as indeed you always are! I've come to realise that the adjustable nature of your Hinge approach must be a big plus... not just for starters, but in the future too, when use might begin to take it's toll. That's why I've been thinking about how to incorporate those two pieces of choc block innards into Andy's Chock Block approach... which I like because it uses those plastic snakes. I think I have an answer and wiil try it out. Basically, by moving the 'moving' choc block with the wire in it to the end of the run (where yours is situated). The two 'fixed' (with screws) choc blocks then become your hinge, and hopefully I can also introduce a couple of the choc block innards in a similar (if not identical) fashion. Worth a try, anyway! On the other hand, with your method of lining up the 'mechanism' with the tie bar and with the advice you've just sent, I feel a certain confidence that I can set things up (as is, with the wire in the centre choc block) with the the 'right sort' of travel... and with a minimum of 'trail and error'! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted May 27, 2012 Author Share Posted May 27, 2012 Hi Alan I think I may have an alternative and simpler solution for you which is a very effective method. It`s an old method used by railway modellers for years and you will be able to use your choc blocks and snakes as well. It`s rather late here now though...........so give me 24 hours and I`ll put it up with pics ( I hope ) Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Hi Alan Back as promised. I have here for you and older style method of manual control. I have only focused on the mechanicals at the point. The lever can either be my system or whatever works. The parts required are:- 1 complete single choc block terminal, 2 choc block metal terminals minus plastic, 3 paper clips or suitable wire, 1 short length of plastic wire insulation and 1 cotton bud. The moving part can be seen from above the point and this may not be to your liking, however it can be painted rail colour etc. and disguised to some extent. The thing is that this system is cheap and effective and fully adjustable. There are two videos below.........one from above and one from below. I should point out too that this method requires the springs to be removed from the point tie bar latching system to reduce effort required to move the blades. It requires one hole to be drilled through the baseboard, some bending of wire with pliers some time and effort.........but all in all very effective. If you like it I can go into some detail on the building process........which I might add does not take very long. Enjoy the videos Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 That's a nifty little mechanism, Gormo, and as usual the vids are great! The only thing I can't work out is how (whether) you've secured the complete single choc block to baseboard. Does anything work other than a screw? Not so sure about this one as I'm removing the spring mechanism to improve appearances... so the moving arm would tend to deafeat this objective. Nevertheless, it's certainly opened my eyes to the differing mechanics that can be applied/achieved. Not a push-to-slide this time, but a push-to-oscillate... if that's the right word! Think I might persevere with the 'sliding choc blocks' idea for a bit longer to see if I can up with something I'm happy with. Maybe adjustable... maybe not! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Hi Alan This is my second go at this posting........the system is a bit unstable !!!!!! I can see your point about the visual aspect of this latest little system........it ain`t pretty....but it works.....oh well.....never mind. The choc block was attached by using a hot melt glue gun, If I was to place it on a layout however, I would use contact adhesive which is extremely strong and long lasting. I will have a rummage around my grey matter ( what`s left of it !!!) and try and help with your choc block issues. All the right ingredients are there........it just needs something?????????. Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Cheers for that Gormo... but don't overdo it! I'm sure there's a way... but am just having a bit of a change... weathered 3 bauxite 16t mineral wagons and am now producing the (real) coal (removeable) inserts... while listening to the cricket. Strauss just out! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I think I've got the answer to the 'adjustability' thing, Gormo. In place of the two choc block innards which you use, I can attach two bits of tightly-fitting 'rubber tubing' (a length comes with the Gold-N-Rods to serve a similar purpose) on either side of the centre choc block and can 'edge' them one way or t'other to extend or lessen it's movement. Just have to ensure the alignment is right first, but that's always the case with any under-baseboard point control. Wish me luck! Just realised, using the innards of a choc block, at right angles, so tightened from the side (lateral thinking!) does a much better job of controlling movement! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Good Luck Alan, Sounds like you`re on to the solution...........any pics???? I have been making enquiries as to getting my lever made.........apparently it`s a difficult shape. One manufacturer wants a conference aimed at redesigning the thing to make it easier to cut and another has come through with a favourable quote. The second quote however, can not do the rounded edges, and the 1.2mm hole exceeds their minimum which is 2mm. I think I could live with some "slight " changes so I am doing a "slight" re-design and we`ll see how it goes. Keep it simple is the best policy...............................Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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