rich34 Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Hi, can anyone tell me or better still show me the correct formation/s for a breakdown, re railing, train. ideally i want it to be based around a Br blue class 40 and a modified and detailed Hornby breakdown crane. I notice hornbys new model is red and the previous was yellow, is this dependent on region? if so what colour is for the eastern region? many thanks for your time and anticipated advice, Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted May 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 7, 2012 I don't know if these photos help. Pilmoor is on the ECML, Hotchley Hill is on the Great Central at Ruschcliffe Halt. Dvaid 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcaravanner Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Never seen a fixed formation of a breakdown train - all I know is the crane jib was "supposed" to trail in the direction of travel tend to have Crane and Runner Mess Van Tool Van (depending on train could be an old coach or parcels van personally never seen a 4 wheel one but ) Re Railing van some had a water tanker for the Steam Crane too As for Colour then it relates to the period up-to the mid 50's (I think) they were Black then they were Red in the Mid 70's (again not sure of date) they were painted Yellow Now you can see cranes in all colours of livery as they are used for Construction work although there are a small number of breakdown cranes stabled around the country which I believe are still Yellow (Notwork Rail livery) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich34 Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Thats brilliant, a massive help thankyou thats my next few weekends planned out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich34 Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 I don't know if these photos help. Pilmoor is on the ECML, Hotchley Hill is on the Great Central at Ruschcliffe Halt. Dvaid What type of coach is the one in the centre? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcaravanner Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Looks like a MK1 SK to me but any old coach could be used and as it's NE Region then an old Gresley would be de-riguere Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted May 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 7, 2012 The Cowans Sheldon 75 ton cranes were built as steam powered and painted red. They were converted from steam to diesel, uprated to 76 tonnes and came out of works painted yellow. The trains consisted of a living van, a tool and packing van and a jacking van. On the Eastern Region, the red vans could well have been Gresleys, and were replaced with Mk1s after the cranes were converted, so you could have a red steam crane with red Gresley coaches, a yellow diesel hydraulic crane with yellow Gresleys or yellow Mk 1s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich34 Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 The Cowans Sheldon 75 ton cranes were built as steam powered and painted red. They were converted from steam to diesel, uprated to 76 tonnes and came out of works painted yellow. The trains consisted of a living van, a tool and packing van and a jacking van. On the Eastern Region, the red vans could well have been Gresleys, and were replaced with Mk1s after the cranes were converted, so you could have a red steam crane with red Gresley coaches, a yellow diesel hydraulic crane with yellow Gresleys or yellow Mk 1s. So if i go with red ill need a water tanker and if yellow i wont? Think i like the red option best, though at the moment im tempted to do both! looks like my air brush is gunna be busy, would there be a brake van used at all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted May 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 7, 2012 The living vans were largely converted from brake coaches, so no brake vans were necessary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Thornaby had an old Gresley coach painted yellow with striped ends.I'll post a pic when I get a chance. Longsight, in the 1970/80's had an ex LMS coach as part of the train. There was usually a class 40 parked on the same road just in case. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich34 Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Thanks everbody, this is all a great help, cant wait to get started, got my sound fitted 40 ready and waiting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich34 Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 bloody hell , just seen the price of Hornby gresleys, think ill be using a Bachmann mk1! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcaravanner Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 bloody hell , just seen the price of Hornby gresleys, think ill be using a Bachmann mk1! Check out Ebay 99p to £14.99 for cheaper ones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted May 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 7, 2012 (Notwork Rail livery) Some of us are very happy working for Network Rail, and don't appreciate slurs like you make here. Please be more respectful. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcaravanner Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Some of us are very happy working for Network Rail, and don't appreciate slurs like you make here. Please be more respectful. Apologies No Malice intended Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich34 Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 What colour would the water tank be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Hi, can anyone tell me or better still show me the correct formation/s for a breakdown, re railing, train. ideally i want it to be based around a Br blue class 40 and a modified and detailed Hornby breakdown crane. I notice hornbys new model is red and the previous was yellow, is this dependent on region? if so what colour is for the eastern region? many thanks for your time and anticipated advice, Rich Regions may vary but there used to be a LMR edict that cranes above a certain weight (which included BDCs should be marshalled next to the loco for transit purposes. Obviously the crane needed to be leading into the work site which meant running round at least. The crane would also be trailing off site (as in the pics running wrong road on the ECML) but would be remarshalled for the run back home. The Cowans Sheldon 75 ton cranes were built as steam powered and painted red. They were converted from steam to diesel, uprated to 76 tonnes and came out of works painted yellow. The trains consisted of a living van, a tool and packing van and a jacking van. On the Eastern Region, the red vans could well have been Gresleys, and were replaced with Mk1s after the cranes were converted, so you could have a red steam crane with red Gresley coaches, a yellow diesel hydraulic crane with yellow Gresleys or yellow Mk 1s. Pedant point, The cranes were not uprated to 76 tonnes, they were metricated (pedant mode off). What colour would the water tank be? The tank would match the rest of the train i.e. if the crane and vans were red, the tank would be also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcaravanner Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Regions may vary but there used to be a LMR edict that cranes above a certain weight (which included BDCs should be marshalled next to the loco for transit purposes. Obviously the crane needed to be leading into the work site which meant running round at least. The crane would also be trailing off site (as in the pics running wrong road on the ECML) but would be remarshalled for the run back home. Actually I think this is still in force as on those days when I do see a crane in the Doncaster -Toton 6X0x run through Chesterfield it's always at the front of the train - - though not seen a BDC for a good few years on the Main line Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich34 Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 Hello, me again sorry, thanks for all the help so far gents, very much appriciated and i cant wait to get started. Anyone any ideas of running numbers for stock? Gunna get the new red Hornby crane and titivate it a bit, but the three coaches ( including the gresley ) and tanker will be an airbrush jobby so ill need authentic running numbers. Will use fox transfers as normal but how can i find actual numbers out as i wasnt born till 1977 and by the time i could go out on my own said prototype had gone On a slightly more extreme note, the class 40 im gunna use is a dcc sound model, is there any way of sound chipping the crane? Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted May 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 8, 2012 It's a bit of a long shot, but you could try this website http://www.departmentals.com/photos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted May 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) Here's a red Gresley combined staff and tool van - I'm not aware of any of these being used with cranes, but it should give you an idea. http://www.departmentals.com/photo/320427 Edited May 8, 2012 by 96701 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 bloody hell , just seen the price of Hornby gresleys, think ill be using a Bachmann mk1! You could always use one of the previous generation Gresley coaches. Much cheaper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 The tank wagon might well be an ex-milk tank, which simply would have had a horizontal black stripe on the original dirty-silver livery with 'not to be used for milk traffic' painted on; I believe there might even be such a beast in either the Hornby or Dapol list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich34 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Had a email from hattons today saying they ve decided to cancel this years yellow crane so its definatly gunna be red Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted May 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2012 Just a small note about the location of the crane in the train. If I remember rightly, there wasn't room for train brake equipment under the crane or relieving bogies, so because they were only through piped, they couldn't be at or near the back. I'm sure I've sat on Stratford's living van between the loco and the crane with the two tool vans bringing up the rear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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