-missy- Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Hello Im on a learning curve designing things for 3D printing. I think at the moment Shapeways has things pretty much sewn up when it comes to Model Railways with thier Frosted Ultra Detail (FUD) as the majority of people seem to be using it. It has taken a few attempts to get something actually printed as I had some areas it couldnt print to start with. I know that Shapeways has some design hints and tips on thier website for FUD but I thought it would be worth asking the question on here. So, if you have any experiences with FUD, things you have learnt, or any hints and tips in general that you think are worth sharing for other up-and-comming designers share them here.... Missy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Smith Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Missy, Not so much Tips and Tricks, but experience of 1 wagon... For my 2mmFS GWR Outside Framed Van, I made the plank gaps 0.15mm wide, and 0.2mm deep. The strapping detail (holding the frames together) I also made 0.15mm thick. The bolt detail I made 0.2mm square by 0.15mm deep (protruding off the wagon). The thickness of the sides I think were 0.8mm thick (but having the framing as well I felt would be strong enough). The hinges were also 0.15mm thick, but had projections on their backs that fitted into the slot (also 0.15mm wide by 0.2mm deep) around the doors. Below are a couple of images of one of the wagons (I had 3 printed, one has a really rough side). When I finish them I will update my blog with further info and pictures. Hope this helps, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Ian's methods are very similar to my own 1 van trial experience. I used slightly different measurements (more akin to etch and half etched thicknesses for details to maintain consistency between construction techniques), which are documented in the thread Throw a Six to Start, on my blog, and in a forthcoming 2mm magazine article. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 There are problematic areas with the materials that Shapeways call frosted detail. One is that there is a reaction between the plastic and the wax support material where the two interact in the x-y plane. This produces a 'frosted' texture which can look obtrusive and can sometimes be difficult to remove. The other is that there can be a rippled effect on some surfaces. For both problems the best answer is to prime the model and scrape back the unwanted texture with a sharp scalpel. If you were to print a cube with detailing on all six faces, then you would find that the top and bottom face were fine, with no artefacts, the back and front would have frosting filling any hollows and under protruding details and the ends would have the frosting and possibly the ripple. Shapeways does not allow anyone to specify the orientation of the model in the build, because placing the parts to be built is done automatically with softeware. But they have said that the software will try to minimise the amount of support wax used, so that for instance, if you were to have built a hollow van with an over lapping roof the preferred orientation would be with the roof to the bottom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 ... But they have said that the software will try to minimise the amount of support wax used, so that for instance, if you were to have built a hollow van with an over lapping roof the preferred orientation would be with the roof to the bottom. Unless this has changed in the last year I am unconvinced. They seem to minimise the footprint in the build chamber to fit the maximum number of parts in one layer so most models will be built end on, unless they are too long. Most of the N/2mm that I have seen has been built this way, and my hollow box with an integral roof was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 -......so most models will be built end on, .. This is my experience and by happenstance the lines were on flat surfaces and easy to clean using a razor blade as a scraper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJones Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 What are the chances of being able to print 2mm scale buffers on complete wagons? What about underframes and W-Irons/axleboxes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Smith Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 What are the chances of being able to print 2mm scale buffers on complete wagons? What about underframes and W-Irons/axleboxes? I was talking to Missy about this at the RMweb members day. I intend adding an underframe to one of my wagons and requesting a re-print to see whether a complete wagon (possibly minus the roof) would be feasible in 2mm. Hopefully I will be receiving the cattle wagon batch (without underframes) in the next few days as they are currently shown as "in production" Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Hello Im on a learning curve designing things for 3D printing. I think at the moment Shapeways has things pretty much sewn up when it comes to Model Railways with thier Frosted Ultra Detail (FUD) as the majority of people seem to be using it. It has taken a few attempts to get something actually printed as I had some areas it couldnt print to start with. I know that Shapeways has some design hints and tips on thier website for FUD but I thought it would be worth asking the question on here. So, if you have any experiences with FUD, things you have learnt, or any hints and tips in general that you think are worth sharing for other up-and-comming designers share them here.... Missy Frankly, I am quite underwhelmed by FUD parts. I printed some testparts at Print-a-part, and the results were promesing. But after they shut down their service, I had to look elsewhere for prints. I tried to print the same parts in FUD, but the results were not nearly as good as the PAP parts. This is a shame, as I was very happy with the customer service and pricing at Shapeways. Here is a comaprasion between a PAP part (blue) and FUD part (white). Same .STL files. Note for instance the far better crispness on the bolts: Regards, Hauk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 What are the chances of being able to print 2mm scale buffers on complete wagons? What about underframes and W-Irons/axleboxes? I've heard of at least one person printing buffers in FUD so it should not be any more problematic if they are a portion of a larger piece. Personally I wouldn't go for W-irons because I like them as etched parts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atso Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 It is possible to print usable buffers and W-irons in FUD, I did this with the pigeon van. Although these were later cast, one of the original proving models is still happily running around my N gauge test track (layout pending!) without being any the worse for wear... yet. However, I did print the W-irons 1mm thick as to ensure that they were strong enough to let the wheelset in (the very first print broke where trying to do this with thinner W-irons) and withstand running, shunting, etc... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I have 4mm LMS Loco buffers printed fine in FUD, c/w bolts. They are heavy enough to be secure. I hope I don't get Hawk's problem. Has anyone asked to have their work done on the newly installed machine in NY - the FUD is much better? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJones Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Well that's encouraging, perhaps I'll add an underframe to my Cambrian van, I've already added the buffers. I think the brake gear will have to be etched though,well the lever at least unless I can make it like a Peco underframe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 ..... to see whether a complete wagon (possibly minus the roof) would be feasible in 2mm. Ian; the floor does not have to be solid, because it is not seen, You could always put sufficient size vent in the floor to clear excess powder from inside the model. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I print complete wagons in Nn3, some have separate roofs and others holes in the base to aid cleaning and adding weight. Weight is a major issue with 3D printed items. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Smith Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Ian; the floor does not have to be solid, because it is not seen, You could always put sufficient size vent in the floor to clear excess powder from inside the model. Noel Noel, I did not put floors or roof on the Outside Framed Vans (which were body only) that I had printed, but the later Cattle Wagons and Brake Van all have floors but no roof. In the design I have recesses in the rear face of the solebars and a mark to denote the axle centre line to facilitate accurate location of the etched RCH Wagon W Irons (part no. 2-312). Hopefuly I will be taking delivery of these latest wagons in the near future as they have been "in production" according to my Shapeways order for nearly 10 days! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Ah that's interesting as mine had been in production for the same amount of time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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