A Really Useful Layout - Caught out by flashing!

[MikeTrice]

Typically my ambition far exceeds my patience. As a result I have started many layouts and lost interest in them too quickly. Why is this?

 

Size is one thing. I produce a plan, build a baseboard, then try and work out exactly where I am going to put it and not let it get either damaged or dusty. Large layouts tend to be anti-social requiring constant carrying from their intended place of rest to the area construction will take place. In my case this is in the lounge while my wife does needle work whilst watching TV.

 

Micro layouts have a lot going for them and I experimented with a Swiss based T Track module a while back which I was quite pleased with, but again the prospect of creating several more put me off going further. Boxfiles offer a lot of possibilities however even in N gauge I find the size restrictive.

 

Recently I have been buying storage boxes made by the Really Useful Box Company http://www.reallyuse...llrange_rub.php in an attempt to tidy up some of my clutter. I started wondering if they might provide a suitable "box" to house a layout.

 

I managed to aquire a 48Ltr box from Hobbycraft and worked out that I could build a small pizza layout comprising a double track mainline based on a tight inner radius of 7.5 inches which my Swiss stock generally will traverse. Based on two boards of 530 x 310mm I cut a couple of foamboard sheets to size and mocked up the oval using Kato Unitrack. Hmmm, it was a bit small in the end and would not give me much to work with so back to the drawing board!

 

At the time we bought the 48ltr box I pursuaded my wife that we also needed one of their 22ltr boxes to store the odd rolls of wrapping paper we had around with the ulterior motive of being able to consider it as a back up option. http://www.reallyuse.../b22_0litre.php The internal dimensions of the box are 745x214x140mm.

 

Could I fit a typical Swiss station into this footprint?

 

A very common Swiss prototype comprises one or more passing loops with sidings off of the ends. A single track station therefore might be something like this:

 

The problem is the station would work out at 1045mm long, too big for the proposed wrapping paper box.

 

So what about that old dodge of imagining part of the station is off board:

 

There is a prototype at Meggen which has a road bridge across the station so I could get away with it. This could result in a visible section thus which coincidentally is 745x214mm in size:

 

So what now? Well I have been playing with this concept for some days and it does look promising. The resulting Box is easily carried and would protect the layout when not in use. More importantly I can find a home for it relatively easily, far more so that my previous layout attempts.

 

Tomorrow, hopefully it will be back to Hobbycraft to buy another 22ltr box at their current price of £7.99. My plan then is to build the main baseboard out of foamcore board which should keep everything light. What about the bits either end I hear you ask? Well I can provide a number of lightweight cassettes to allow stock to run offscene each end. At this stage I am not sure I can fit the main baseboard and the cassettes into a single 22ltr box and may have to "borrow" my wife's box short term.

 

So that is the scheme. Hopefully I will get something built for a change without being too antisocial in the process.

[Guest Jim Read]

Hello Mike,

 

I like layout No 2, instead of having a point in the 'fiddle' bit you could have a three road traverser, which would add to the operating potential and mean more enjoyment for you when operating it. It would also be a nice constructional challenge as well :-)

 

Jim

[MikeTrice]

Thanks for the suggestion. The point in the hidden bit is imaginary, in reality I will use cassettes which I hope will be easier to build than a traverser and allow the trains to be rotated 180 degrees as well.

 

Have made some progress this morning.

 

Original plan in box:

 

Simple baseboard constructed from foamboard in best Nevard fashion. Fortunately the sheets of Foamboard are just long enough (with about 20mm to spare):

 

View of the underside. I will add more cross braces when I know clearances for turnouts (I will be using Peco or Seep point motors):

 

The sides have been laminated with two layers glued with evostick. Remaining joints are Anita's tacky glue. The basebard will receive additional end boards to match the back board but I have not fitted these yet as I need to determine the precise location for the exit holes first:

 

Could not resist trying some stock just to get a feel for the finished thing. A Pola St. Niklaus has been posed just to give a sense of size but I am not intending to use this as I need a design with an offset goods shed. Will probably scratch build one based on Wassen but with its earlier shed design:

 

Another posed shot. Yes I think I can live with this.

 

One sheet of Foamboard used so far.

[MikeTrice]

Bought 2 boxes yesterday, so one for the main scenic section and one for the cassettes.

 

Scenic section has now had a layer of cork sheet glued to the top of the foamboard. For this I used Permanent Spray adhesive as I did not want to risk warping the foamboard by using PVA. Not overly successful with a couple of areas not very secure. Peeled back the cork and applied contact adhesive to restick. Fumes have leaked and attacked the foam and the corresponding section has sunk a little. Oh well, beats having a perfectly flat surface in the background.

 

Did not take any photos as there was really little point.

 

Next task is to start modifying the Peco turnouts.

[MikeTrice]

OK, my cutting skills are not as accurate as I would like and the scenic board is getting a bit tight in the box. A better target dimension would have been 740x210mm. Unless I start again I will need to shorten the existing unit. Hope I can get away with it, otherwise it is back to square one.

[mjcampbell]

Nice idea, I'm a big fan of small layouts. Especially if you have struggled to complete a larger layout, there is huge satisfaction in having a project you can finish.

 

I've found a hot-glue-gun ideal for sticking foamboard, but for the cork PVA would probably have been fine. The foamboard seems pretty resistant to warping, even once covered with glue, plaster, etc.

 

If you are planning cassettes, here's a handy hint: http://michaelsrailways.blogspot.co.uk/2009/01/cassettes.html

[MikeTrice]

Thanks Michael will study them. My plan at the moment is to use foamboard which I have seen elsewhere as I can control the height so it matches the scenic section.

 

Some small progress.

 

End panels in place and cork sheet glued down:

 

The dip I mentioned earlier can be seen here. Fortunately in a location that does not matter:

 

To reduce the length I cheated and mounted the end panel on top of the surface board rather than my original plan to mount it onto the end. Saved me 5mm:

 

It fits! Scenic board shown in box:

 

Phew.

[MikeTrice]

Michael. Thanks for the link. I may well "borrow" some of your ideas.

[MikeTrice]

A lot of modellers use Peco Electrofrog turnouts exactly as they come. There are a number of modifications that can be made to improve the reliability of the turnouts which I wanted to follow. Here are the results.

 

I am going to make two modifications to the wiring of the turnouts to electrically bond the stock rails and closure rails together and insulating the crossing V from the switch rails. THis is a common mod with OO turnouts, and Peco have made this simpler to achieve in their later designs, but not so for their code 55 N turnouts.

 

The first photo shows via the wire (for small radius turnouts) where the bonding of the stock and closure rails will occur:

 

The second shows where the crossing insulation is going to be cut:

 

Based on the location identified for the bonding location a razor saw is used to cut through the sleepers underneath adjacent to the sleeper:

 

A similar cut is made against the next sleeper edge:

 

A pair of pliars are used to snap out the scrap plastic:

 

All ready to be cleaned up with a needle file:

 

A jeweller's saw is used to cut through the closure rail inboard of the crossing:

 

Once the first one is cut, just keep going to cut through the other rail:

 

The finished cut:

 

I would have carried on and shown the attaching of the dropper wires and the bonding of the stock/closure rail, but I will need to get some wire tomorrow so watch this space.

[MikeTrice]

Whilst the saw and files were out I carried out further modification.

 

When ever you see a Peco turnout on a layout it is instantly recognisable by the area around the switch blades. This is a hefty moulding to allow a Peco point motor to be attached directly beneath the turnout. Although I do intend to fit point motors I will not be fixing them directly to these mounts so the opportunity was taken to smarten up this area.

 

Here the web between the sleepers (sorry Martin: timbers) has been fretted out:

 

The sleepers (timbers) have been trimmed back with a Xuron track cutter and dressed with files:

 

Remaining web t'other side also removed:

 

Once I have decided on which side to connect the point motor I will reduce the other side's tiebar.

 

I should add that the normal over sprung mechanism still works fine.

 

Worth doing?

[buffalo]

...I've found a hot-glue-gun ideal for sticking foamboard, but for the cork PVA would probably have been fine. The foamboard seems pretty resistant to warping, even once covered with glue, plaster, etc...

I certainly agree about the hot glue gun, and wish you well with the cork-PVA-foamboard bond. My experience is not so positive.

 

Nick

[MikeTrice]

I really must try a glue gun. Perhaps I will use one for the cassettes although presumably you are putting a fillet on the inside of the joint. PErhap I will continue to use tacky glue for the main bond but use the glue gun to spot it so it holds until dry.

 

Nick, will let you know later in construction.

[mjcampbell]

... and wish you well with the cork-PVA-foamboard bond. My experience is not so positive.

Oh dear, perhaps not then!

 

I haven't used cork with foamboard, couldn't see the point really as the foamboard is a sound insulator anyway. If you need more depth for ballast shoulders or drainage ditches it might be better to laminate another sheet of foamboard, it is dead easy to cut with a knife.

 

The glue gun was just used for edge to edge joints, run a thin bead along and quickly put the parts together, You have just a few seconds until it is set, the great thing is you need no clamps or supports and you can then move on the the next piece immidiately. Any weak spots can be strengthened with an extra bead of glue, but it really is strong enough.

[MikeTrice]

OK, hit a problem so learn by my experience.

 

Aquired some 1/0.6 bell wire and decided to not only solder the bridge between the stock and closure rails but incorporate droppers at the same time. With space limited some melting of the turnout base was unavoidable:

 

Unfortunately on turning the turnout right side up, note that the short length of closure rail has been melted and has moved position:

 

So the moral of the story is do NOT cut the crossing insulating gaps until AFTER soldering the bridging and dropper wires.

 

If anyone can suggest a better solution please feel free to post it!

 

P.S. I am hoping I can drift the rail back into position, if not that is one turnout going in the bin.Oh yes and one of the joints has not taken.

[mjcampbell]

Is that single core wire?

 

Multicore wire is not only more flexible and less liable to break, it is much easier to solder. Tin the end first (run solder into the wires) then holding the wire in place, a couple of seconds with a tinned iron tip should be enough to remelt the solder. Flux helps too but must be completely cleaned off afterwards.

 

If you can realign the rails the ballasting would hide the damage...

[MikeTrice]

Thanks Michael. I did use a flux that does not cause corrosion but I am considering trying Carr's Orange flux. Yes it was single core. Unfortunately I only bought 24/0.2 wire in addition to the 1/0.6 so I could probably do with something with less strands, say 7/0.2. Oh well back to Maplins tomorrow. Out of interest do you think I would be better folding the wire up and soldering to the side of the rail rather than the bottom?

 

I should add that I did little (OK I'll be honest - no) research before my purchases today and it was only later that I understood what the wire references meant, so for any others in the same predicament the first figure represents the number of strands and the second the cross section of wire in mms so 1/0.6 is single strand of 0.6mm cross section and 7/0.2 is 7 strands of 0.2mm cross section.

[buffalo]

Yes, 7/0.2 is ideal but keep on soldering it to the bottom not the sides. If you've not seen this thread on soldering droppers to track, you may find it useful. Personally, I use multicore 60/40 tin/lead solder with no extra flux but I've been soldering for a very long time and others seem to find additional flux helps. Above all, avoid lead free solders.

 

Nick

[mjcampbell]

I tend to solder to the side, but that's 'cos I don't think to add the wires before laying the track! Not much help for points but some solder to fishplates.

 

I would suggest taking an off-cut of plain track to practice on!

[MikeTrice]

Buffalo, I have always hated soldering. Have read your link and I am using multicore however on checking the dispenser it is labled "Lead Free" so that is certainly not helping.

 

Michael with such a small layout and following Kenton's wiring advice on another thread I don't think I will have much opportunity to solder to fishplates, however I think the idea of using offcuts of track for practice a good suggestion especially as I will need to do it for real.

[Guest Jim Read]

Hi all,

 

I always use lead free solder and I make my points from nickel silver rail and copper clad strips, I make my own controllers, amplifiers for my audio and I've just modified a Philips CD 723 player with surface mounted components onto very thin PCB's, no problems at all.

 

Nickel Silver is also known as Birmingham Silver and can be, machined, cast, filed, extruded and polished and prior to the advent of stainless steel was used in the food industry, hosptials, and ships, why because it doesn't corrode.

 

Jim

[MikeTrice]

Don't tell anyone, but I might have got away with it!

 

Having wrecked the previous turnout I considered my options and was uncomfortable with how secure (or more accurately not) the errant closure rail was. Sure I could attempt melting the base to realign but it probably would not have been very strong. Instead I tried a more radical approach.

 

From underneath I cut another razor saw location with the intention of removing the whole timber:

 

Since my last post I have aquired some Rapid Tin/Lead High Grade solder and various fluxes including a bottle of Gaugemaster Non Acidic Flux.

 

So using my new solder/flux I soldered a piece of brass rod across the tops of the rails to provide additional support:

 

From below having removed the timber, the base of the rail was filed away until it reached the cosmetic foot of the rail:

 

Finally a piece of 1.6mm PCB was cut, gapped and soldered, and the temporary brass support removed. Still some minor clean up required:

[mjcampbell]

Good recovery!

[47137]

So the moral of the story is do NOT cut the crossing insulating gaps until AFTER soldering the bridging and dropper wires.

 

If anyone can suggest a better solution please feel free to post it!

 

A few months ago I destroyed a Peco curved point by converting too many sleepers to narrow gauge ones and this let the stock rails straighten up too much. This point went in the bin. For my second attempt I was determined to make only a few changes at a time. I changed the sleepers and soldered on dropper wires as in my photo here, and cut the gaps with a cut-off disc in a Minicraft drill after the track was laid and ballasted. This worked ok. (My droppers were 1.0 mm2 solid copper from domestic power cables)

 

[MikeTrice]

Wire arrived this morning (bought from Ebay). Rescued turnout now has droppers using 7/0.2 wire based on Richard's soldering locations:

 

Attempt number two with a second turnout. The shorting wire is an extension of the dropper which is bent up after soldering. The V dropper is as per Richard's arrangement:

 

Once the droppers have been soldered the insulation of the V can be carried out. This time I moved its location one sleeper up from the previous location:

 

I checked the soldered joints under magnification to satisfy myself there were no dry joints. Once laid and ballasted the

wires should be hidden.

 

Changing over to the traditional tin/lead solder has made a considerable difference. So, thanks to the various responders, I can now successfully modify my turnouts without having to resort to drastic repairs.

[MikeTrice]

Although I have got little to show for my time, I am currently working out the best way to provide for both operating the turnout and switching the V polarity. This has involved lots of reading on various sites including the brilliant site provided by Brian Lambert. As stated previously I intend to use either Peco or Seep motors, but do not have a preference at present. Reading various reviews the general concensus seems to be to ignore any switch mechanisms either built into the Seep motors, or provided as an accessory for the Peco motors as they are generally unreliable. The next obvious solution is to rig up a microswitch however mounting and adjusting it will need some working out.

 

What I will probably go with is:

Peco passing contact switch (which will double to show the path set)

CDU

Point Motor

Latching relay

 

The alternative to the above, at about the same price, is to substitute the Peco passing contact switch for a centre off toggle switch and fit led displays for the route setting. The problem with that approach is it increases the number of wires to any removable panel.

 

Due to the tight fit of the main layout in the Really Useful Box I will try and make the layout as self contained as possible with any panel storing away underneath the board when not in use. At present I plan to connect the controller to the main layout with a computer HDD 4 way connector (2 x controlled dc + 2 x 16vac).

 

Rather than risk the main layout I will probably try all this out first on a test bench and if successfull dismantle and install properly.

 

Hmmm, just had a thought. If I make the station building open at the back and cut a hole in the backscene I can have a mimic board inside showing the route settings with only the switches needing to be on a separate panel unless of course I can make the panel small enough to include the switches. Will definately need to experiment.