A Really Useful Layout - Caught out by flashing!

[MikeTrice]

I don't think this is a 'gaff', but you may find it helpful to be able to isolate the feeds into the points at the two ends of the layout, i.e. where it links to the fiddle yards. This could mean two more toggle switches, or switching on the panels associated with the fiddle yards.

Just fallen in. Yes it makes sense.

[MikeTrice]

Who would have thought a panel could be so difficult! I have only got 4 turnouts so it should be a doddle shouldn't it?

 

Here is what I have currently but I am still not convinced I have the best colours:

 

At the moment I wonder if I can get away with printing in colour then having the sheet laminated to protect it before fixing to the panel bcking board.

[47137]

Well ... on this layout, you probably want to have only one controller, with one train moving at a time. (It's not big enough for two trains to achieve sustained motion at the same time). So, you only need section switches to isolate locos you want to stay still while you drive the train you want to move.

 

You can use points to provide some isolation too, reducing the number of section switches. In the scheme with six section switches, sections 2 and 5 (two sidings) could be set on or off by setting the relevant point in the appropriate direction.

 

Knowing this, you might want to move the section breaks for 2 and 5 along the sidings a bit, so you can park one loco and drive another one onto the siding. Or, you might be able to get rid of switches 2 and 5 altogether.

 

Kenton has already said most of this, I'm trying to put it another way hoping it will be helpful.

[MikeTrice]

Yes only one controller will be used and only one loco moving at any time.

 

So if I understand everyone's feedback correctly my feed/gap arrangement can be simplified to look like this:

 

There is a single IRJ between W1 and W2. There are 2 IRJs between W2 and W3. There are single IRJ where W2 joins S3 and W4 joins S3

 

Switching W1 routes to S4 when that is selected, but when W1 is set for straight on any loco on S4 will remain stationary.

 

Switching W4 either routes to S3 or S2. Again when set for S3, any loco on S2 will remain statis. Likewise W3 will either power up or power down S1.

 

So the only section that would need its on separate switch would be S3 where a loco could be parked while another switches onto S2

 

The feeds stock rail feeds to W1, W2 and W4 are always on. All none IRJs will be electically bonded for reliability.

 

Having accepted the earlier advice regarding isolating the sections of track that are offscene I am now down to only 3 section switches. My panel now looks like this:

 

The siding S1 is not long enough to justify an isolated section at the end to hold a loco. Likewise S4 is not supposed to be a siding, but the visible part of a runaround so again probably no loco isolation other than that caused by W1.

 

Phew. I knew I should have stuck with a simple pizza layout with no turnouts

[mjcampbell]

I would do something like this:

 

 

Note the black breaks are in both rails, the others could be in one rail but best to pick the same side for all of them. The feeds would be near where I have put the numbers. I can see no reason to isolate between the first and second point on the left.

 

There's only a need for a switched section if it has use in holding a train. This allows you to run a train in or out of either side of the loop to either FY while holding a train in the other loop or other FY. Since you can't move a loco over the points nearest the fiddle yards, or in/out of the bottom siding, without space in the adjoining cassette anyway, there is no need for them to be a separate section.

 

Since the points will isolate the siding beyond them, sections 1a and 2a are optional. Indeed I have shown them with a break part way down the siding in order to hold two locos, or retrieve stock while a loco is held at the end of the siding, (The "1a" notation I use as it can only be accessed from section 1, and the switch is fed from switch 1, so can only be turned on when 1 is on. You could call them sections 5 and 6 if you prefer...)

 

Indeed you could get away with just two sections: 1 & 3 as one section and 2 & 4 as the other, with sidings and both sides of the loop isolated by points. You would need to switch the points at both ends of the loop to run a train in or out though.

[MikeTrice]

Thanks Michael, it all makes sense. Do I really need the break between 2 and 4? If not and 1a and 2a are superflous that leaves me with 3 sections, 1, 3 and 2/4 on your diagram. The only one I would need a switch for is 3. with the locations 1, 3 & 4 needing feeds.

[mjcampbell]

It depends how you intend to operate it. As I have shown it you can run a train from the left FY (1) into either side of the loop while the other side of the loop and the r/h FY (4) are isolated. If you combine 2 and 4 then you would need to switch the point far right to the loop in order to run from the loop (2) to the l/h FY (1) or vis-versa.

 

As I said the bare minimum is two feeds at 1 and 4 and rely on point isolation, but you will need to disconnect cassettes and ensure the points at both ends of the loop are set for each movement. As drawn you only need to ensure the point your are actually moving over is set correctly, and the the FY you need to enter is clear.

 

I think it would be better to wire for 4 sections (assuming you don't think you'll need more than one loco in each siding, so 1a and 2a are not required) - if you find you rarely use a switch it is no big deal, but if you complete the layout and wish you had an extra break it is much more frustrating!

[47137]

If you wire as Michael's sugestion you should not go far wrong. I suggest you include the breaks and wiring for 1a and 2a, and hard-wire the feeds to the adjacent sections at the control panel for the time being. You do not know how useful this layout may become ... the last time I used my N gauge layout it was to test some 9mm narrow gauge stock. If you provide the sections now, you can bring them into service easily if you need to. You might even pop a diode across the joint for 1a, arranged to stop a loco running beyond the section break. (A 1N4001 would do).

[MikeTrice]

I think you are both right, it is better to overdo things as it will give greater flexibility. I have also realised that should I decide to build another module to complete the runaround at the front (by extending to the right) the extra sections/breaks might be useful.

[MikeTrice]

After a couple of false starts - I have a panel! The observant might note that I have added a section 5. The reason for this is it is really the left hand end of another runaround and I might, just, build a second module to the right completing it.

 

 

All switches and leds are in place albeit not wired yet.

 

The Faller station kit has arrived and as guessed, looks as if it can be built in mirror image quite easily. I am now considering how to build it so it is less toy like. The most obvious improvement would be in the window frames as they are a bit heavy at the moment.

[mjcampbell]

Very tidy! Looks good to me.

[MikeTrice]

New panel inset into frame of baseboard.

 

[MikeTrice]

As a change from worrying about electrics I have started looking at using the Faller kit to provide the station building. In addition to a pristine kit I have also managed to pick up a second hand constructed sample from Ebay. I find this sueful as I can try out ideas before doing it for real on the kit.

 

So this is how the kit is intended to be constructed (hopefully much neater):

 

I intend to flip it so the goods shed is on the left:

 

When looking at either the Faller catalogue or built examples I cannot help wonder what can be done to make them a bit more realistic. Painting would help but are there underlying improvements that can be made during construction? This is where I find a sample model invaluable, especially when photographed. Here are my observations and I invite additional comments from anyone bothering to read this.

 

The following is an enlargement of the doors facing the platform. The various glazing bars in the door could be slimmed down a bit. Another common issue is there is often a gap between the doors and walls. The gap at the bottom seems excessive as well:

 

The upper windows have been glued in from the wrong side but the glazing bars seem heavy. Really need to thin these down. The roof detail is pretty good although painting will improve a lot.

 

The windows on t'other side are OK subject to thinning down. Again gap filling will improve. Looks as if the original builder has been a bit careless with plaster!

 

End window needs improving:

 

The goods shed I don't think looks too bad. I will probably use tiles on the roof and paint in dark wood:

 

Final view of the end of the goods shed, again not too bad:

[MikeTrice]

Just noticed this, the original builder for some reason has fixed the top window frames BEHIND the glazing:

[Kenton]

but if you complete the layout and wish you had an extra break it is much more frustrating!

 

Oh how true, and how often do we change our minds, "this layout will never be extended", "this layout will always only have one loco", "I am not interested in DCC" ... Why are folk so scared of wiring to cover all eventualities. It is only a few more wires and a few switches that stay "on"? Or perhaps we should be recommending insulfrog pointwork as the accolade we should be striving for.

[MikeTrice]

Could not resist starting the kit to see what it would look like. A lot of careful filing and using Mek Pak for assembly.

 

I had intended to fix the frames and doors behind the opening so I could fill the gaps, however if I do that, painting will be harder so I have left them separate for the moment and may have to put up with gaps. Note that the door surrounds have got moulding sinks which will need filing:

 

The goods shed has had the doors fixed in place as these will probably be painted the same colour as the walls (wood):

 

Wheras the use of a liquid cement applied by brush is second nature to me having used it since Mek Pak was first released, I wonder why so many second hand assembled kits are assembled with tube glue. Is the use of a liquid not well known?

 

P.S. Just noticed left hand door opening looks crooked. Trust a photo to show these things up.

[MikeTrice]

OK, not a lot of "improving" yet.

 

I been continuing assembly, very carefully, trying to be as neat as possible. I have a number of sub assemblies that can be painted before final joining together.

 

The upper floor. Like the goods shed this is actually a moulded batten and board pattern so I am thinking of painting this in a dark wood:

 

The ground floor is rendered and will be finished in a pale cream rather than the gaudy colour of the kit:

 

The windows when fitted will also be prepainted in a wood finish. It should contrast nicely with the rendering.

 

Finally the goods shed. Like the upper floor this will be painted wood, as will the doors, hence why thay have already been fitted:

 

The various sub-assemblies placed together to show the mirror version of the original kit, exactly what I am after:

 

I am considering changing the goods shed roof to use a sheet of Noch 3D Roofing tiles. I also wondering about replacing the roof of the main building and also using the Noch tiles. This would give me the opportunity of removing the roof lights which as supplied would have the glazing recessed too far below the opening.

 

Walking to work this morning I also noticed that on real roofs where the various surfaces meet there are usually gullies with lead flashing. Replacing the supplied mouldings with my own would allow me to model this feature.

[MikeTrice]

A recent photo of St Niklaus showing the effect of dark wood above with rendered finish below with wood window frames. Unlike the kit the end barge boards are fixed below the roof tiles where in most kits they are designed to be fixed on the end of the roof. Also visible is the lead flashing between the roof surfaces and the join between the goods shed roof and the main station building. Unfortunately the N Gauge kit of St Niklaus was too big for my available space.

 

Changing subject slightly I was surprised to find my Faller kit seems to be available in HO, N and Z. There are also other variations on a theme. This might explain why I seem to have extra parts in my kit with no mention of them in the instructions.

[MikeTrice]

The goods shed at Thurnen (now a cafe) showing the stained board and batten in better condition to the separate goods shed further along also in board and batten.

[MikeTrice]

Back to the model. Really not certain where this is going however I have built a new roof from 30thou styrene using the original as a pattern. This has been glued to the top story. The joints have then had strips of cooking foil glue sticked (glue stuck?) over them. This will represent the lead flashing after painting, probably with Humbrol gunmetal:

 

My plan is to cut another set of roof panels slightly smaller than the base ones and laminate them in place leaving a visible gap between the base and upper layer where the lead flashing will be visible.

[MikeTrice]

Second skin applied leaving gaps between the joints to show the foil beneath. I just hop they are wide enough as the Noch tiles still need to be added:

 

 

Finally squaring up the various edges using a home made giant sanding stick, an extremely useful gadget:

 

Oh and I have stopped worrying about those deep recessed round windows in upper story walls. Schwarzenburg has some just like them (albeit not round) complete with recessed glazing:

[MikeTrice]

Top level has had gutters added (including run off), chimney and flashing and blown over with Halford's Grey Plastic Primer:

 

Goods shed likewise:

 

Doors and windows were fixed to masking tape and also blown over with grey:

 

The ground floor has had a coat of White Plastic Primer. It could probably do with another coat, but should be OK as it is:

 

Need to let this lot go off properly then I can start painting.

[MikeTrice]

As you will have seen from the earlier photos the details in the Faller moulding are very fine and crisp and I did not want to lose this detail when paint was applied. I have never previously got on with Acrylic paints in the past but an interesting series of postings by Dave on the LNER Forum showed that Vallejo paints still let the detail show through.

 

Having now tried them out (no pictures yet) I am very impressed.

[MikeTrice]

Base colours applied and some dry brushing applied. Not happy with the ground floor, the stonework needs improving. Also need to weather it a bit, probably using some form of powder or possibly ModelMates dyes. Almost ready to apply the roof tiles!

 

 

 

 

[MikeTrice]

The main units have been assembled with 5 minute epoxy:

 

Started adding doors/windows using UHU applied with a cocktail stick.

 

Added flashing between roof and main building ready to allow the new roof covering to be applied:

 

Oops! Whereas flashing goes under the roof tiles where the adjacent pitched roofs meet, of course for chimneys and where the goods shed joins the side of the main building the flashing should go above the roof tiles. Damn,

 

Remedial action now required.