andygif Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Can anyone help me out with what livery the Ransome & Rapier 45 ton Breakdown crane that was allocated to Bristol Bath Road from 1961 to 1972 and then Plymouth Laira from 1972 to 1987 please. Did it stay black or did it get repaint to engineers red? I've been to the BCDA site (http://www.bdca.org.uk/) hoping to find some information, and the crane I'm after having built is the only one they dont have a picture of. I've googled for images of it, but cant find anything definitive. Here its allocation data: Ransomes & Rapier Ltd. 1940 45 GWR 1987 Preserved Swindon Works Ltd (Flour Mill) (Owning Company/Region) (Number) (From) Great Western Railway 19 1940 British Railways Western Region ADW19 1948 (Allocation) (From) (To) Bristol 1940 c.1948 Swindon (Central Workshops Authority) c.1948 1961 Bristol (Bath Road) 1961 c.1972 Plymouth (Laira) c.1972 1987 CEPS: ADRR95213 cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Andy, The Heyday of the Hydraulics by Hugh Dady has a 1971 pic of a large red steam crane being hauled from Bristol to Didcot by a warship. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Was that the crane they toppled on top of a fire damaged DMU in that neck of the woods? IIRC, that was yellow at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Evenin' all, This appears to be the same one at Bristol Bath Rd late 60s photographer unknown at the moment. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Was that the crane they toppled on top of a fire damaged DMU in that neck of the woods? IIRC, that was yellow at the time. I don't know about that but I think it was the one which lifted the foot bridge at Totnes from underneath! Doing it that way saves using slings and chains. Wally Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 1978 it was black http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ Mike Wiltshire Just dug out my GW150 pics and in October 1985 6000 KGV and Manor was being prepped at Laira next to a yellow breakdown crane with ex mk1 running coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygif Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 thanks for the information, i've decided have the n gauge model i commissioned done in gulf red in the end. good spot on that match truck mike(coach bogie) might get a cowans 75 tonner done as well if the modeller thinks he can produce one. perhaps i'll get a pair and do this http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2141243 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 thanks for the information, i've decided have the n gauge model i commissioned done in gulf red in the end. good spot on that match truck mike(coach bogie) might get a cowans 75 tonner done as well if the modeller thinks he can produce one. perhaps i'll get a pair and do this http://www.geograph....k/photo/2141243 If you are meaning the crane, why Gulf red? That is a departmental wagon livery. Cranes were in "red enamel" over a pink undercoat and, like the ex carriages that worked with them appear to have had a varnish finish (the ex freight stock used with breakdown trains didn't have the varnish finish). . http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/stewartlanecrane/e30ec2d04 Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygif Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 this breakdown crane red is a whole can of worms i wished i hadn't opened. since reading hmrspaul's reply and doing a little digging I've seen breakdown crane red described as Indian red, engineers red, bright red, gulf red and ambiguously breakdown red! I trust the guy who's making it knows what he's doing. Perhaps i should have followed Mr fords advice "you can have any colour you like as long as its black!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 this breakdown crane red is a whole can of worms i wished i hadn't opened. since reading hmrspaul's reply and doing a little digging I've seen breakdown crane red described as Indian red, engineers red, bright red, gulf red and ambiguously breakdown red! I trust the guy who's making it knows what he's doing. Perhaps i should have followed Mr fords advice "you can have any colour you like as long as its black!" Breakdown red is a good description. It is a very bright red. Gulf red (which Dave Larkin erroneously keeps calling Indian red) is much duller - we have been there elsewhere on trying to capture it, but it was only for engineers wagons for a couple of years. I am looking at the old Platform 5 SCT books on Departmental coaches and the outside captures the red well. I used to have a front door in 'poppy red' and I don't think that would have been far off "red enamel" which is the official description. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoover50008 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 The Laira breakdown crane was black when it was powered by steam. It was replaced during the 1980's with a diesel powered version which was yellow, this was the one that toppled over on Dainton Bank. I have some pictures somewhere which I will dig out. E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Laira at end was yellow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoover50008 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 As promised picture of the Laira Steam Crane taken in about 1982 in black livery. Just visible in this picture is the 6 wheel milk tank used as storage for the water supply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygif Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Thanks hoover, think I'll be giving my n gauge one a repaint then. The red it is now, is too brown for my liking. I'm also going to make a pair of runner wagons from cutdown peco guards van chassis and put a proper 8 wheel chassis under the crane body. Will probably need to rejig the jib wagon too it seems. www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=2748;preview Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoover50008 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Thanks hoover, think I'll be giving my n gauge one a repaint then. The red it is now, is too brown for my liking. I'm also going to make a pair of runner wagons from cutdown peco guards van chassis and put a proper 8 wheel chassis under the crane body. Will probably need to rejig the jib wagon too it seems. www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=2748;preview You're welcome. E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer1027 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hi, I have only just found this thread and what an interesting thread. I am at this very moment building the Laira Breakdown Train. The period is early 70's and the scale 7mm. Unfortunately there are'nt any kits so scratch building is in order. So far i have built part of the crane ( Ransome & Rapier 45 ton steam crane ) this being the jib carrier. I have started the other two small wagons that go either side of the crane, but not got far as i need some detail photos as i do with the crane itself. I have nearly finished the Tool Van (DW150053 ) but i need to get some bogies for it. And i have just started the mess/staff coach but thats only got as far as cutting some plastikard. It has took me ages to try and find pics of the crane and support vehicles and im still trying to find more to help with this project. The crane during the early 70's was definately black but with a white end to the jib. The support coaches are gulf red but they are faded so the colour does'nt look right so a friend has mixed me a lighter shade which is a lot better I hope this pic attachments worked as i have'nt posted pics for ages. . Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hi, I have only just found this thread and what an interesting thread. I am at this very moment building the Laira Breakdown Train. The period is early 70's and the scale 7mm. Unfortunately there are'nt any kits so scratch building is in order. So far i have built part of the crane ( Ransome & Rapier 45 ton steam crane ) this being the jib carrier. I have started the other two small wagons that go either side of the crane, but not got far as i need some detail photos as i do with the crane itself. I have nearly finished the Tool Van (DW150053 ) but i need to get some bogies for it. And i have just started the mess/staff coach but thats only got as far as cutting some plastikard. It has took me ages to try and find pics of the crane and support vehicles and im still trying to find more to help with this project. The crane during the early 70's was definately black but with a white end to the jib. The support coaches are gulf red but they are faded so the colour does'nt look right so a friend has mixed me a lighter shade which is a lot better DSCN0073.JPG I hope this pic attachments worked as i have'nt posted pics for ages. .PICT1842.JPG R&R wagon.jpg Rob Dear Rob It is very unlikely that the support vehicles are gulf red. They should be red enamel - a very bright red. There are numerous colour photos around the web that show the red. Gulf red had a brownish tinge to it, although not as brown as freight stock red - bauxite. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer1027 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Dear Rob It is very unlikely that the support vehicles are gulf red. They should be red enamel - a very bright red. There are numerous colour photos around the web that show the red. Gulf red had a brownish tinge to it, although not as brown as freight stock red - bauxite. Paul Bartlett Hi Paul, your probably right. Im not really sure as to the name of the red used but the colour i have tried to have matched is from one of your pics. Its the tool van at Reading under the departmental/ GWR section. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
87023Velocity Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Hi, I have only just found this thread and what an interesting thread. I am at this very moment building the Laira Breakdown Train. The period is early 70's and the scale 7mm. Unfortunately there are'nt any kits so scratch building is in order. So far i have built part of the crane ( Ransome & Rapier 45 ton steam crane ) this being the jib carrier. I have started the other two small wagons that go either side of the crane, but not got far as i need some detail photos as i do with the crane itself. I have nearly finished the Tool Van (DW150053 ) but i need to get some bogies for it. And i have just started the mess/staff coach but thats only got as far as cutting some plastikard. It has took me ages to try and find pics of the crane and support vehicles and im still trying to find more to help with this project. The crane during the early 70's was definately black but with a white end to the jib. The support coaches are gulf red but they are faded so the colour does'nt look right so a friend has mixed me a lighter shade which is a lot better DSCN0073.JPG I hope this pic attachments worked as i have'nt posted pics for ages. .PICT1842.JPG R&R wagon.jpg Rob Hi Rob, Nice work on your breakdown crane vehicles. The parts you have built for the crane look very nice. I am half tempted to build a 7mm version of the crane I am currently doing in 4mm, it could go with my MMP class 56 when I get that done! Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 It has took me ages to try and find pics of the crane and support vehicles and im still trying to find more to help with this project. Have a look at "www.bdca.org.uk" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craneman Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 1978 it was black http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ Mike Wiltshire Just dug out my GW150 pics and in October 1985 6000 KGV and Manor was being prepped at Laira next to a yellow breakdown crane with ex mk1 running coaches. I realise that this is a very old thread, but on the off-chance that it may be of some interest I thought I'd pick up on it, in particular the quoted post. The crane at Laira in 1978 (black) was not the same crane as was there in the 1980s. Three of the Ransomes & Rapier 45-ton cranes appeared at Laira over the years:- 1) Ex-GW 18 later ADRR 95212, probably from about 1963 to 1965 2) Ex-SR 1580S later ADRR 95216 arrived at Laira in 1972 and was probably there for most of the 1970s. 3) Ex-GW 19 later ADRR 95213 arrived at Laira after 95216 and was there for most of the 1980s, to 1987 It is hard to be accurate with dates since few records were kept, fewer have survived, and to most people (even observant photographers) a steam crane is a steam crane, and that's all! The black crane in the 1978 photo in the quoted post is 95216. It is unmistakable because of the cut-outs in the relieving bogie solebars above the axleboxes - it was the only R&R crane built with this shape of RB, and this particular crane was never painted any colour other than black. There are photos on the web taken in the 1980s (for example from the 1985 Laira depot Open Day or from the GW150 event in October 1985) which show a yellow 45-tonner at Laira. The yellow crane is 95213 which was the only 45-tonner (and in fact the only British R&R crane) to be disfigured by the application of the hideous yellow livery! As promised picture of the Laira Steam Crane taken in about 1982 in black livery. Just visible in this picture is the 6 wheel milk tank used as storage for the water supply. hpqscan0001.jpg This photo shows 95213, and is therefore not the same crane as that shown in the 1978 photo in the other post, but is the one which became yellow! 95213 is preserved at the Flour Mill in the Forest of Dean, thankfully once again black! 95216 is preserved at the Mid-Hants Railway, still in black 95212 is extant (it's going a bit far to say "preserved") at the West Coast Railway Company at Carnforth, in black. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Perhaps one of the books on the subject could help?Asking question myself as I don't heve either of them. Kev S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnw1 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 ADW19 was a 45 ton steam breakdown crane built by Ransomes and Rapier in 1940 for the Great Western Railway. It is one of a batch of six cranes (two allocated to the Southern Railway, 1560/61S and four allocated to the Great Western Railway, 16-19) ordered on Government account from Ransomes & Rapier as a war precaution immediately prior to the start of World War 2. Here is ADW16 at Old Oak Common in 1976 in black ADW16 – http://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/6416907805/ plus the 75 ton Bristol Crane in 1976 141 - http://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/7360514392/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craneman Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Since my post above seems to have breathed some new life into this thread, can I ask if any readers have, or can direct me to, any good photos af ADRR95213 carrying its (unattractive!) yellow livery? I am trying to locate pictures with enough detail to correctly paint an accurate model and am particularly interested in markings and lettering etc. There are four pictures I have found online but all are distant and/or obscured, sadly. I don't recall ever having seen a picture in a book of this crane in its short-lived yellow livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 So there was another crane at Laira after ADRR 95213 as the one that fell on the DMU did so in 1991. What was that one? Here's the DMU it fell on. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/chris64ex4/media/Trains%20in%20trouble/TotnesTrainFire1.jpg.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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