Diesels on the Oban Line

[Argos]

I am currently building a small layout in 2mm scale based on the Killin Railway based in the late 50s and early 60s (upto Closure)

I don't believe there is any evidence of a diesel loco working the Killin line prior to closure in 1965 although DMU units did visit on the Six Loch's Tour.

The line through Killin Junction between Callander and Oban was worked by Diesel traction though and I am considering including Diesel traction to generate some variety.

 

I know Class 21s, 27s and 29s operated the Oban line in the period and have photos in various literatures which show these.

 

Is there any evidence for other types?

 

Did the Classes 20, 24, 25, 26 ever operate to Oban pre summer 1965 (Or any other types for that matter)?

Thanks Argos

[Blandford1969]

Hi there was a discussion about motive power on the C&O earlier this year. See this thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56425-callander-oban-passenger-engines-in-br-days/

 

regards

 

Duncan

[peak experience]

there is video footage of a class 20 at killin on the cinema train...i may be wrong but it could be double heading with a class 27...my memory deserts me on this point.

[Jim49]

There was indeed a Class 20 & 27 double header on the Killin Branch as Peak Experience says.

The train was a special excursion for a load of American tourists and used Scottish Region's TV

train comprised of about 9 or 10 Gresley coaches in Maroon.

 

The footage is on either No. 3 or 4 of the excellent Caledonian Routes DVDs. I can't remember

which one but I will skim through them tonight to see if the loco numbers are visible.

 

Other than these 2 locos and the DMU specials you mentioned originally, the Killin branch didn't

see many diesels in its lifetime. If this lack of variety is a problem then just invent another branch

off the C&O, call it what you like and run whatever pleases you from 20, 21/29, 24/25, 27.

 

Always remember Rule 1 - IMFR

 

Jim

[MartinWales]

A classic case of parallel development !

 

My current project is based upon a westwards extension of the Aberfeldy branch in EM and set in the 1962/64 period prior to closure in May 1965, including class 24/26/27's and the signature Thompson brake composite coach built from a Comet kit in addition to a Standard Class 4 2-6-4T.

 

Must get books for you are

BR Diesel Traction in Scotland

Scottish Region Colour Album No 1

Scottish Urban and Rural Branch Lines all by George O'Hara

Callender and Oban Railway (David and Charles)

 

However as most Class 29's were'nt converted until 1965-66 must rule those out and most class 25's would have been south of the Border at this time but 20, 21, 24, 24/1, 26, 27's should be O.K.

 

Some projected branches off the Callender and Oban include the Trossachs Railway and the Glen Falloch line

 

Please P.M. me if you require any more info/inspiration!

Edited November 9, 2012 by MartinWales

[Argos]

Thanks for the help above.

I was hoping I would be told that 24s were regularly active on the line, ho-hum.

Whilst I do accept Jim's rule one I do want to keep to atmosphere credible.

 

The Caledonian Routes DVD has been on my "to get list" for a while so I'll push it up the priority. Volume 3 covers the Killin Branch.

 

Martin, it’s great to hear from a modeller, modelling something similar. The 4MT with a 4 or 5 compartment Thompson Brake 3^rd operation is what drew me to the line. The combination of a large locomotive with one short carriage in the Highland scenery is difficult to resist.

 

I have been armchair modelling the C&O for quite a while now so have a lot of reference material around the Killin Line. I'm intending to publish a bibliography on my blog at some point it, would be great to get some feedback on missing articles and books to track down. I have been right through the references and extracted Loco, Coach and wagon details to keep things accurate and provide example stock to model, I’ve mainly concentrated on steam though, hence this post.

 

Thanks again for the help and advice.

 

Argos

[Jim49]

The Killin Branch is covered to some extent in both Volumes 3 & 4 of Caledonian Railways and the episode with the TV train and the Class 20 & 27

appears in Vol. 4. The date of this visit was August 1963, the 20 was D8081 and the 27 was D5365.

 

Hope this helps.

[MartinWales]

Thanks for the help above.

Martin, it’s great to hear from a modeller, modelling something similar. The 4MT with a 4 or 5 compartment Thompson Brake 3^rd operation is what drew me to the line. The combination of a large locomotive with one short carriage in the Highland scenery is difficult to resist.

Argos

 

To be honest it's this that drew me to the simliar Aberfeldy branch train but this time with a 24/1 or a 26 with possibly a mixed train with the odd appearance from the Standard 4 2-6-4.

[Sulzer Bear]

A classic case of parallel development !

 

My current project is based upon a westwards extension of the Aberfeldy branch in EM and set in the 1962/64 period prior to closure in May 1965, including class 24/26/27's and the signature Thompson brake composite coach built from a Comet kit in addition to a Standard Class 4 2-6-4T.

 

Must get books for you are

BR Diesel Traction in Scotland

Scottish Region Colour Album No 1

Scottish Urban and Rural Branch Lines all by George O'Hara

Callender and Oban Railway (David and Charles)

 

However as most Class 29's were'nt converted until 1965-66 must rule those out and most class 25's would have been south of the Border at this time but 20, 21, 24, 24/1, 26, 27's should be O.K.

 

Some projected branches off the Callender and Oban include the Trossachs Railway and the Glen Falloch line

 

Please P.M. me if you require any more info/inspiration!

 

This westwards extension going to Killin Junction?

As this would have been one of the geographical possible routes to link up the West Highlands with the Highland main line.

I did some research on planned and otherwise possible connections between both, and this was one of possible scenario's.

But this one didn't work for me because the line would have been closed even with more traffic on it because of the substantial damage it suffered in 1965, and I'm moddeling the 1968-1971 period.

But when you are modeling the railway prior summer 1965 it is a good idea, and legalizes the use of 20, 21, 24, 26, 27 and 29 and maybe even an odd class 40 (I'm not sure if route availability allowed them on the west Highland line)

[MartinWales]

This westwards extension going to Killin Junction?

 

But when you are modeling the railway prior summer 1965 it is a good idea, and legalizes the use of 20, 21, 24, 26, 27 and 29 and maybe even an odd class 40 (I'm not sure if route availability allowed them on the west Highland line)

 

No, a westwards extension, petering out some 6/7 miles close to the village of Fearnan, which gives the layout it's name-but no 21's as they were mainly ex GNSR/GSWR section allocated at this time, and too early for 29's. Class 40's would be too big!

 

Setting it around 1962/4 would give scope for using steam and diesel, a little earlier than my favoured 1968 era

 

Imagine my surprise then when a chance Ebay purchase threw up a Loch Tay Day Tour handbill with the intended route of my line marked on it ! Which will be used as notice for the layout-ideal!

[Argos]

Martin,

 

We almost meet! I'm modelling an extension from the East stopping around one mile short of Fearnan.

 

Class 21s would be a possibility though, for me at least, as they were active over the Oban line during the period, I have several photos in the 1961-63 frame both through Killin Junction and at Oban. The latest Modern Locomotives Illustrated show a nice double header at Oban in '61.

 

The other class to feature heavily is the 27s, they appear to be almost ubiquitous diesel traction at this point. I was hoping for a bit more variety.

 

The Aberfieldy line did appear to share similar motive power.

 

Jim, Thanks for the information about Caledonian Lines Vol 4, I would have missed the Killin Branch bits in it.

 

Argos

[MartinWales]

Martin,

 

We almost meet! I'm modelling an extension from the East stopping around one mile short of Fearnan.

 

The Aberfieldy line did appear to share similar motive power.

 

Argos

 

Great minds think alike! Not modelling in EM by any chance are you?

 

So is yours called Lawers by any chance? Peter Fletcher modelled a similar layout in the early 80's (Sept '82 RM)

 

Hoping mine will be ready for a small local show in 4 weeks time, complete with class 20/24/26/27/std 4 2-6-4T

[Julian]

Hello MartinWales/Argos and Co. I've been a Killin/C&O enthusiast ever since seeing Peter Fletcher's lovely N gauge "Glen Doran" layout in RM in the early 1980s, followed by his "Lawers" layout in EM, to which you rightly alude, Martin. It's a delightful layout and small too! There's quite a lot in print on both Killin and Aberfeldy if you hunt around back issues of "Railway Bylines", "Steam Days" and "British Railways illustrated" (I think). Amazon lists a number of specialist books on both branches too, at reasonable cost although I've not found the photos in these to be too useful or of great quality. "Aberfeldy's Railway" (C J Stewart, Highland Railway Soc) shows a 26 taking water from traditional steam-era water crane on the platform, presumably for the steam-heat boiler. It also shows a Black 5 on a freight on the Aberfeldy branch. One of the Bylines articles has a glorious shot of a green 25 on a one-coach train (Thompson brake 3rd) on the Aberfeldy branch. Chris Ellis' "Scale Model Trains" had a layout feature on building a model of Killin and Loch Tay many, many years ago. What always deterred me was the gravity round-round manoeuvre at Killin, to get the coach on the "other" end of the loco for the return trip to Killin Jct - how do you do that in model form without using the Big Finger? That and, of course, the absence of a r-t-r 0-4-4 Caley tank (yes, I know DJH did a 4mm kit). Sad to relate but in N gauge, those hideous proprietry couplings put me off bulding any form of branchline, I'm afraid, where you need to uncouple the loco from the stock. (This is a man who bought the original N gauge Wrenn/Lima Standard 2-6-4 once upon a time and subsequently found that his Bachmann "new" version didn't run any better either!)

 

I'm planning a 4mm layout "inspired" by Aberfeldy/Killin myself, using a green 25 and green 26, plus the lovely Bachmann 4MT 2-6-4 and one of the gorgeous new Hornby Thompson coaches (I too missed out on the BR Gresely suburban brake - 'sound familiar?). Did these 4MTs ever work the Aberfeldy branch? Would it be stretching credibility too much to run a Bachmann Ivatt 464XX 2-6-0 on such a branch - they did work the Ballachulish branch, after all?

 

Killin has EVERYTHING going for it, IMHO: the "classic" branch line set-up; wonderful scenery; great locos, large ( not so large) and diesel (with a modicum of modellers "licence"); simple track layout; scenery; the isolated engine shed at Loch Tay station; more gorgeous scenery; fascinating operation; much of the stock is available r-t-r now too. Here's to all Killin/Loch Tay/Aberfeldy fans! Please can we enjoy the fruits of your labours please, on these pages to inspire those of us who are still at the "planning stage". Good luck with your layouts!

 

Lastly, does anyone want me to post a list of all the Aberfeldy/Killin articles and photo refs I've been able to collect over the past 30 years then? Happy to oblige if it's of any interest? Yes, the Vol 3 DVD (see above) is excellent: is Vol 4 of much relevance to this geographical area and operation (he asks out of ignorance)?

[MartinWales]

I'm planning a 4mm layout "inspired" by Aberfeldy/Killin myself, using a green 25 and green 26, plus the lovely Bachmann 4MT 2-6-4 and one of the gorgeous new Hornby Thompson coaches (I too missed out on the BR Gresely suburban brake - 'sound familiar?). Did these 4MTs ever work the Aberfeldy branch? Would it be stretching credibility too much to run a Bachmann Ivatt 464XX 2-6-0 on such a branch - they did work the Ballachulish branch, after all?

 

Lastly, does anyone want me to post a list of all the Aberfeldy/Killin articles and photo refs I've been able to collect over the past 30 years then? Happy to oblige if it's of any interest? Yes, the Vol 3 DVD (see above) is excellent: is Vol 4 of much relevance to this geographical area and operation (he asks out of ignorance)?

 

Strictly speaking the 25's a 24/1 and I've already built the coach which appears in a lot of the later shots taken of the line in the mid 60's (SC80417E-now preserved)as I wanted it in EM anyway, and yes the 2-6-4's were used on the branch in 1961/2 shortly before dieselisation, 80092/3 are sample numbers-there's a nice W.J.V.Anderson shot of '93 in Highland Railway Album by Anthony J.Lambert (Ian Allan 1978). Perth South would have been the closest MPD to the Aberfeldy branch-the branch shed would have been a subshed and AFAIK they were'nt allocated there although they had several 08 shunters......

[Argos]

Julian,

 

At the risk of apearing slightly obsesive, below is the list of publications I currently have relating to the Killin Branch

 

Books:-

 

The Callander and Oban Railway - John Thomas

The Killin Branch A Personnel Recollection - Peter Waylett

The Killin Branch Railway - Colin Hogarth

Modelling Scotland's Railways - Ian Futers (P82 &83)

Caledonian Cavalcade - (Picture of Killin Junction P67)

 

Magazines:-

 

Modellers Backtrack Vol 4/No 3 Aud Sept 1993 (P153-163) 3 pages on the Killin Pug loco then 7 pages of plans and photos of all the main structures on the line.

Modelling Railways Illustrated JAn 1996 (P249-253) Photos and Track plans by Chris Ellis (plus Jim Watts' marvelous 2mm Caley layout Connerburn as a bonus!)

Backtrack Sept 1995 (P481) 3 colour photos

Backtrack Spring 1989 (P33-38) Text and photos

Backtrack Nov 2000 Front colour photo (P624-632) Text and photos (inc 6 colour pics)

Steam Railway July 1986 (P23-31) Text and Photos

Steam World June 1991 (P6-12) Test and photos of both the Killin and Aberfeldy lines

 

Locomotives Illustrated 21 BR standard Tank Locomotives (P18) picture at Loch Tay Shed.

Locomotives Illustrated 144 LMS Passenger Tank locomotives (P13) picture at Loch Tay Shed (P14) Killin Pug 2 pics (P25) Killin Train pic on main line.

 

If I have missed any I'd like to know so I can hunt them down.

There is also loads of photos in various locations on the web, haven't made a note of them though.

 

If you want to follow the build my ramblings are on the blogs page.

[Argos]

Martin,

 

I stumbled across this picture of a 24 with a single coach train at Aberfeldy, almost makes me want to switch location!

 

http://www.colour-rail.com/Preview.aspx?ImgRef=DE1446

 

Argos

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

These layouts both sound very interesting - any chance of posting any photos of progress, trackplans etc?

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Argos]

Ben A,

 

A blog is underway for the 2mm version mentioned; the western extention to Fearnan - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1220-argos-blog/

 

Argos

[design8027]

On 13/11/2012 at 09:17, Argos said:

Julian,

 

At the risk of apearing slightly obsesive, below is the list of publications I currently have relating to the Killin Branch

 

Books:-

 

The Callander and Oban Railway - John Thomas

The Killin Branch A Personnel Recollection - Peter Waylett

The Killin Branch Railway - Colin Hogarth

Modelling Scotland's Railways - Ian Futers (P82 &83)

Caledonian Cavalcade - (Picture of Killin Junction P67)

 

Magazines:-

 

Modellers Backtrack Vol 4/No 3 Aud Sept 1993 (P153-163) 3 pages on the Killin Pug loco then 7 pages of plans and photos of all the main structures on the line.

Modelling Railways Illustrated JAn 1996 (P249-253) Photos and Track plans by Chris Ellis (plus Jim Watts' marvelous 2mm Caley layout Connerburn as a bonus!)

Backtrack Sept 1995 (P481) 3 colour photos

Backtrack Spring 1989 (P33-38) Text and photos

Backtrack Nov 2000 Front colour photo (P624-632) Text and photos (inc 6 colour pics)

Steam Railway July 1986 (P23-31) Text and Photos

Steam World June 1991 (P6-12) Test and photos of both the Killin and Aberfeldy lines

 

Locomotives Illustrated 21 BR standard Tank Locomotives (P18) picture at Loch Tay Shed.

Locomotives Illustrated 144 LMS Passenger Tank locomotives (P13) picture at Loch Tay Shed (P14) Killin Pug 2 pics (P25) Killin Train pic on main line.

 

If I have missed any I'd like to know so I can hunt them down.

There is also loads of photos in various locations on the web, haven't made a note of them though.

 

If you want to follow the build my ramblings are on the blogs page.

This book good for a 1960’s layout?

[Argos]

14 minutes ago, design8027 said:

This book good for a 1960’s layout?

 

The book is a history of the line, not much changed through the life of the line up until closure of the Eastern section so most of the photos will be relevant, it depends what you are looking for?

 

Beware though there are numerous inaccuracies in the captions in the book.