Wright writes.....

[Barry Ten]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

These were the first 'proving' samples of Hornby's new 28XX, taken a decade ago in Margate. Was the original Hornby 28XX tender-drive?

 

 

 

It was indeed tender drive, Tony, and rather shockingly I've found a picture of mine I posted nearly ten years ago, in November 2009!

 

 

It's been detailed and repainted. Compared to the newer 28xx it's a bit dimensionally off in some areas but not enough

that you'd notice unless both were side by side. I know tender drives aren't popular around these parts but it's a

nice runner for what it is.

 

Al

 

[Headstock]

38 minutes ago, Chamby said:

In terms of ‘the best’, I’m surprised nobody has mentioned this variation on the 2-8-0 theme...

 

 

Top trumps on several counts, including coal consumption According to some!

 

Evening Chamby,

it was original supposed to be based on two O4 chassis, many claim it would have been a better engine in its original form. The Robinson 2-8-0 must trump the 9 fss on 'for King and country' score, more a case of we came in last but ever so fast for the big un. Tongue in cheek outraged modellers of the world.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Headstock
to clarify a point

[LNER4479]

4 hours ago, APOLLO said:

THIS loco Trumps everything !!

 

 

One just overhauled and returned to service within the last few months also. Well done Union Pacific.

 

Brit15

 

Like this you mean?

 

Sherman Hill. 4th May 2019

[Northmoor]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Is it also fair to say that they were the 'best' locos ever to work over the S&D? 

 

Brilliant on the S&D they were, but too late to save the line.   9Fs could have been used earlier but the NUR's men blacked them because they could do the job of two locos, or more to the point, two loco crews and the associated overtime.

 

There are many conspiracy theories amongst S&D fans about why the line was run down, but it seems the railwaymen themselves didn't exactly help with more economical operation. 

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, Headstock said:

the LNER .... Their fully fitted freight stock outnumbered that owned by the other big four  companies combined, by almost three to one. 

 

That's an interesting statistic. May I ask what your source is for it, and to what date it applies?

 

I have read (and observed for myself in photos) that the fitted heads of LMS express goods trains were largely made up of Great Western vehicles.

 

Were all fitted wagons non-pool?

Edited October 24, 2019 by Compound2632

[APOLLO]

9F - The finest British built freight locomotive ever built.

 

Battle at Brickyard crossing by Phillip Hawkins. This painting should be pride of place in the National Art Gallery in London.

 

 

Trump that for atmosphere & artistic craftsmanship !!

 

Brit15

[Compound2632]

There will be a 3F doing its bit pushing at the back.

[Pacific231G]

3 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

9F - The finest British built freight locomotive ever built.

 

Battle at Brickyard crossing by Phillip Hawkins. This painting should be pride of place in the National Art Gallery in London.

 

 

Trump that for atmosphere & artistic craftsmanship !!

 

Brit15

Ummm;  Rain, Steam and Speed perhaps?

[Pacific231G]

5 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

9F - The finest British built freight locomotive ever built.

 

Battle at Brickyard crossing by Phillip Hawkins. This painting should be pride of place in the National Art Gallery in London.

 

 

Trump that for atmosphere & artistic craftsmanship !!

 

Brit15

Ummm; Rain, Steam and Speed perhaps?

[Clive Mortimore]

55 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Like this you mean?

 

Sherman Hill. 4th May 2019

I bet the SD90 (?) is doing all the work.

 

[grahame]

17 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

9F - The finest British built freight locomotive ever built.

 

 

Nah, Kestrel trumps a 9F. That's game, set and match.

 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

There will be a 3F doing its bit pushing at the back.

Or even a 94xx...

 

That's all right, I'll see myself out.

[jrg1]

In all the posts regarding the merits of heavy goods locomotives, why has there been no mention of the GWR 47xx class?  

Fast, powerful, versatile and at home on heavy mixed traffic-and only nine were ever built.

[robmcg]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I bet the SD90 (?) is doing all the work.

 

 

Actually the diesel was added so its dynamic brakes could provide work for the two engines...  and make a better show. At times.

[The Johnster]

35 minutes ago, jrg1 said:

In all the posts regarding the merits of heavy goods locomotives, why has there been no mention of the GWR 47xx class?  

Fast, powerful, versatile and at home on heavy mixed traffic-and only nine were ever built.

Fast and powerful certainly, but one can hardly describe a locomotive restricted to work on only two routes because of axle loading as being versatile.  They were equalled for performance on express fitted freight work by Halls once those locos came into service, and the Halls were cheaper to run, easier to fire, could run anywhere with a red route restriction (the 28xx could manage blue), rode better, and were a lot more versatile by any standards.  The 47xx are much admired by enthusiasts but were in fact too heavy and turned out to be a developmental dead end.  

[chrisf]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

In all this talk of 'best' (steam) loco for freight work, I'm surprised the 9F has not been mentioned. They could do anything which any of the other types cited could do (more easily) and they could also do something that none of the others could do; take an express at over 90 mph down Stoke Bank! Or take 'The Red Dragon' from South Wales to Paddington on a 'Castle' or 'Britannia' timing. Can anyone imagine a 28XX doing that?

 

It seems that Canton regarded "Evening Star" as at least the equal of a Britannia.  There must have been red faces when she arived at Paddington 20 minutes early on the up "Red Dragon" and not just because passengers were still eating their lunch.  The schedule of 180 minutes for the 145 miles from Cardiff to Paddington was a joke.

 

Chris

[jamie92208]

6 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Actually the diesel was added so its dynamic brakes could provide work for the two engines...  and make a better show. At times.

Apparently  one of the main reasons for using the dynamic brake facility on the diesel is to save brake shoe wear on the loco and ciaches on the long tours, of several thousand miles each, that the loco is now doing. It also neans that they don't have to take another set of fitters with them to change brake shoes on a night.

 

Jamie

[Clem]

I've heard it said via a number of sources that Colwick men always preferred a 'Tiny' (O4) on the coal and iron ore trains in Notts and Derbyshire because of, amongst other things,  their sure-footed abilities. They must certainly be the most aesthetically pleasing design to connoisseurs like us. 

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, chrisf said:

 

It seems that Canton regarded "Evening Star" as at least the equal of a Britannia.  There must have been red faces when she arived at Paddington 20 minutes early on the up "Red Dragon" and not just because passengers were still eating their lunch.  The schedule of 180 minutes for the 145 miles from Cardiff to Paddington was a joke.

 

Chris

Perhaps the leisurely "Red Dragon" schedule was purposely devised to allow passengers to take lunch on the train?

 

The time at which it ran also indicates a service aimed at people who were not intending to return the same day, rather than up-and-back business travellers without a club to stay at...

 

A relaxing "travelling experience" was a primary selling point of the additional named trains created in those times. Not, as today, one to be got over-and-done-with as rapidly as possible, with rudimentary snacks grabbed off a passing trolley (if you are lucky).

 

John

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[bbishop]

I think this thread is proving, that each railway designed a locomotive specifically for its own traffic.  Thus comparisons can be unrealistic.  Just two examples, the Garrett was popular at Wath and highly unpopular on the Lickey.  The S&D 7F locomotives were designed for short hard bursts of power and were unsuccessful when trialled on the Midland main line.

 

Tony is right, the 9F was the best heavy freight locomotive.  It was also the second best heavy mixed traffic locomotive, behind only the LSWR / SR S15 class.  Hat, coat, duck.

 

Bill

[Dunsignalling]

25 minutes ago, bbishop said:

I think this thread is proving, that each railway designed a locomotive specifically for its own traffic.  Thus comparisons can be unrealistic.  Just two examples, the Garrett was popular at Wath and highly unpopular on the Lickey.  The S&D 7F locomotives were designed for short hard bursts of power and were unsuccessful when trialled on the Midland main line.

 

Tony is right, the 9F was the best heavy freight locomotive.  It was also the second best heavy mixed traffic locomotive, behind only the LSWR / SR S15 class.  Hat, coat, duck.

 

Bill

The other reason the small class of S&DJR 7Fs survived so long, was their excellent brakes, which made them doubly effective on the hilly terrain of their home turf.

 

Otherwise, the huge number of LMS Class 8Fs, offering superior haulage capacity but with less effective stopping ability, would have seen them off as "non-standard" before WW2.

 

I tend to agree about the S15 (the Maunsell version, at any rate), though (IMHO) the GWR Grange ran the 9F close for second place in the MT stakes.

 

John

Edited October 25, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Headstock]

9 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That's an interesting statistic. May I ask what your source is for it, and to what date it applies?

 

I have read (and observed for myself in photos) that the fitted heads of LMS express goods trains were largely made up of Great Western vehicles.

 

Were all fitted wagons non-pool?

 

The LMS society,

 

The LNER had aprox 60,000 fitted vans and wagons out of a total fleet of aprox 295,000 wagons. The LMS had aprox 20,000 fitted vans and wagons from a fleet of aprox 350,000 vans and wagons. The other two were well behind in comparison. I'm not sure on the last question.

[Headstock]

4 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

The other reason the small class of S&DJR 7Fs survived so long, was their excellent brakes, which made them doubly effective on the hilly terrain of their home turf.

 

Otherwise, the huge number of LMS Class 8Fs, offering superior haulage capacity but with less effective stopping ability, would have seen them off as "non-standard" before WW2.

 

I tend to agree about the S15 (the Maunsell version, at any rate), though (IMHO) the GWR Grange ran the 9F close for second place in the MT stakes.

 

John

 

V2, easly the best heavy MT locomotive.

[Dunsignalling]

3 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

V2, easly the best heavy MT locomotive.

Depends how hilly your railway is, but that gets us back to "horses-for-courses" does it not?

 

Also, with the same size wheels, what makes a V2 MT and a Merchant Navy or A2, not?

 

John

Edited October 25, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Tony Teague]

31 minutes ago, bbishop said:

It was also the second best heavy mixed traffic locomotive, behind only the LSWR / SR S15 class.  Hat, coat, duck.

 

8 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

I tend to agree about the S15 (the Maunsell version, at any rate), though (IMHO) the GWR Grange ran the 9F close for second place in the MT stakes.

 

I'm relieved!

I had been waiting for the Southern to get a look in!