Hawick_1987 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) From my introduction thread: Hello everyone, my name is Alastair and I am from Hawick, Scotland. I am 25 years old and I consider myself a keen amateur historian and archivist. I hold a particular nostalgic interest in the Waverley Route, West Fife Mineral Line and the railways of Glasgow. My dad first took me to a model rail exhibition in Hawick Town Hall c.1991 and purchased me my first Hornby set soon after! These days my significant other has set a blanket ban on creating/discussing model railways although I intend to create my own homage to the Border Union Railway once I get a big enough garden!!! In my spare time I run a community group called 'Project Hawick' (link in signature). We are a social discussion forum and digital archive for Hawick and the wider Borders region which started in October 2012. So far we have 93 members and our aim is to educate people on local history and to facilitate an online historical repository, in a similar vein to the B.B.C.'s Doomsday Project of 1986.I hope to use my time on these forums to re-invigorate my interest in model rail and make some contacts regards to the Waverley Route and Project Hawick. Thanks for having me! Project Hawick has a dedicated Waverley Route sub-forum. It is my fond hope that people from this site can help correct any mistakes we have made and even add their own photos and memories if they so wish! Registration if completely free. We have tried to upload as much original material as possible to preserve it in the future. In recent weeks Project Hawick has appeared in both the Southern Reporter and Hawick News.Project Hawick link: http://projecthawick.forumatic.comYou may also find us on Facebook: http://facebook.com/projecthawick Twitter: http://twitter.com/projecthawick YouTube: http://youtube.com/user/projecthawickFinally keep up the good fight regards to the Waverley Route! Edited March 17, 2015 by Hawick_1987 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Welcome Alastair. The brethren will endeavour to assist in any way possible. :-) Dave. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Oh that tingle just ran through me, unbidden and unstoppable.... I've been sat at my desk for the past half hour daydreaming about 1M82 leaving the Holm for the last time and passing Clerk's Leap in the wintry darkness, and now THIS! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawick_1987 Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 Thanks for the welcome folks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Good to have you on board - just been looking at the Primrose Cottage photos. Such a shame something can't be done with these. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newcastleton P.Way Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Oh that tingle just ran through me, unbidden and unstoppable.... Try bromide in your coffee mate... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawick_1987 Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) Project Hawick turns 3 months old today with 134 members, whilst we are improving the site and its content on a daily basis. Recent posts include these wonderful stories from Border Collie: I was an avid Train Spotter when I was a child, and spent most of my free time on the up-platform of Hawick Station, between 1962 and 1966.I can remember climbing up the long stairway from Mansfield Road, up to the Station entrance- the Taxi office plus the Coal Merchants kiosk on the left of Station Road, then going along to the end of the platform and watching the goods engines shuffling wagons onto the sidings.I got soaked one day when I pulled the 'on' lever for a laugh, on the water tank which was located at the end of the south of the platforms, above the auction Mart, and had 50 gallons of cold water spout over my head.I can remember well, a Saturday afternoon when I must have been around 14yrs old. and saw a Sir Nigel Gresley class locomotive stop to take on water- never will forget its' classic 2-tone whistle, which I first heard as it traveled past the old gasworks- I think it was on its' way to London, as it had a restaurant car at the front of the train.Another Saturday afternoon, a special train stopped at the Station, and it had only 2 carriages, one which was unlike any I had ever seen before. The carriage had a viewing porch at the rear of it, and was full of 'posh men' in suits. As it sat waiting in the Station, a waiter came out, and gave us a couple of slices of luxury fruit cake. I recall he told us it was a 'LMS Director's Special', on its' way to Edinburgh Waverley for a Conference!My special love was for Stobs Station, or Halt as it was known then.I used to cycle up to the Station whenever I could, and made great friends with the Stationmaster there- he used to allow me free access to the entire Station, including the tiny Ticket Office at the side of his house, and I had afternoon tea with him and his wife many times.It was strange, as his daughter (whom I had developed a schoolboy crush on) was actually a Secretary at Hawick High School, where I was a pupil.If anyone remembers Stobs Station, the Stationmaster let me spell out the name "STOBS" in large white stones, on the down side of the platform, in a tiny garden plot. Wonder if this is still there?I also cycled frequently up to Shankend to go to the Signalbox there.(One Sunday, as there were no trains scheduled to run, I actually cycled along trackside from Stobs Station to Shankend, via the viaduct!)I made friends with the duty Signalman at Shankend- his name was Mr Harkness, and he came from Weensland Park.I remember him letting me ring the 'up' and 'down' warning bells, and even change the points- He used to drink tea like treacle, and eat ham sandwiches which he had brought from his home and shared with me.During the Easter school holidays- it must have been in 1964- after cycling up to Shankend, it started to snow, so Mr Harkness put the signals on the 'up' line on red, so a goods train coming from Carlisle had to stop at the signalbox, and got the engine driver and fireman to fling my cycle onto the top of the tender, and let me travel in the engine cab back to Hawick.They had to let me out at the piece of track just before the bridge over Weensland Road, ("so that our bosses don't see us and get us into trouble"....) but I'll NEVER forget was is still the ride of my life.The engine on that day was a big A3 class, and I still remember it's number- 60035.I've got many more stories to tell about my love of the Railways in Hawick- I'll try to post a few more of them in the future.Hope you enjoyed my trip down memory lane.David Grieve (aka Border Collie) Stobs Station was always my 'first love' and when not helping out the Stationmaster, I often went down to the remains of the former Stobs Camp, on the hill opposite the Station. I believe it housed Prisoners-of-War at one time, and it had its' own dedicated sidings. This photo was taken back in 1905- a bit before my time- The Prisoner-of-War Camp was laid out as per this photo-I brought back many items that I found in the ruins of the old buildings, but the most memorable must be something I found in a field just South of the Station, next to a former bunker.It was a metal cylinder around 10" long and 3" in diameter, with fins on one end of it. I packed it into the rear carrier on my bicycle, and took it back home to Hawick. The next day I took it to the High School in my satchel, and showed it to my Maths teacher-a Bob Elliott who lived in Denholm, who promptly evacuated the whole floor of the building, called the Fire Brigade, and we all had to parade in the playground.Apparently I had brought a WW2 Mortar Bomb that had failed to detonate in a practice at Stobs Camp. The Army had to come from Berwick-upon-Tweed, and they took the mortar in a water-filled case to the Haugh, where they took it apart. Afterwards I was told there was still enough live explosive active in it, to demolish the Maths classroom. I had to go to the Headmaster's office where he give me 3 of the strap- but it was WELL worth it, as I was the hero of the school for the next month!Just south of Stobs Station, the tracks gently curved round to enter a long valley, and I always remember the down side of the embankment being covered with a huge number of pink and white Rhododendron bushes.One afternoon, I explored where these bushes were, and after scrambling through old barbed wire, fences and wading through a deep ditch, I found myself looking up at a large, ancient building. I had found the legendary Stobs Castle! I found out later that the wires, fences, etc, were set up during the War, when Stobs Castle was used by the War Office, allegedly to administer nearby Stobs Prisoner-of-War Camp.However that day, a lovely lady caught me in the grounds, but instead of giving me a row for trespassing, she took me into the Castle where I enjoyed a glass of "Middlemas's of Hawick" Ginger Beer, and some cakes bought from Houston's the Bakers. Wish I could remember her name!My final contribution tonight will be further up the track, just before the track curves round to approach Shankend Viaduct.There was a small Hut beside the track there, which was always left unlocked.I suppose it was for the track maintenance workers, as inside was plenty of old arm-chairs, sofas, and even a coal fire with a hearth for heating water for tea on. I never saw anyone use the hut, over the 4-5 years I spent going to Stobs and Shankend, but I used to have a break in it when I walked the track between the two Stations.I will always remember the HUGE pile of 'naughty' Mens magazines that were on a table in the hut- 'Naughty' for 1964 for nowadays you'll find more risque things in the Daily Star or The Sun! I always will remember their Titles- "Parade", "Reveille" and "Tit-Bits". You're showing YOUR age too, if YOU can remember them too. I will say that they made a teenage boy VERY happy! I've got a lot more memories of the Waverley Line, especially of Shankend, Whitrope Tunnel and Newcastleton (or Copshawhome as I called it then) but I'll keep them for posting next week, when the next episode will continue.David Grieve (aka Border Collie) We are looking for new members to share with us their stories and memories of the Waverley Route. Registration is free: http://projecthawick.forumatic.com/ucp.php?mode=register Edited January 12, 2013 by Hawick_1987 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Found Mac's dirty book stash then? 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawick_1987 Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Found Mac's dirty book stash then? Um, come again?! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newcastleton P.Way Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) Aye, the p.way like their creature comforts, especially in remote corners where they think they're not going to get bothered by the "gaffers". A LNER pre-cast concrete p.way hut (deliciously art- deco) reinstated in the cutting at Whitrope Summit is a long cherished ambition, but I fear I'll have my work cut out dragging Max Stafford, Tony G and Co away from the fire on a cold winter's day. Dare say the modern day "general interest" publications will find their way in there too.... Edited January 13, 2013 by Newcastleton P.Way 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Must get trawling ebay for some 'retro' ones. Dave. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Must get trawling ebay for some 'retro' ones. Dave. Is this not taking the details of preservation a bit too far? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawick_1987 Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 Some more excellent tales from Mr Grieve on Project Hawick: The Saga Continues- "The Mystery of Hawick's Airfield?..."As I explained earlier, I was great friends with Mr Harkness- the signalman up in Shankend Signalbox.One Saturday back in 1964, I cycled up to Shankend but this time, I went via the Bonchester Bridge road, up as far as the single track road that is at the top of the hill leading down into Bonchester Bridge, and turned right along it towards Shankend.Not far along this road, I heard a loud buzzing noise, and to my surprise, a small plane went about 6ft above my head, and landed in a long field beside the road, so I stopped to see what was happening.A man got out of the plane (I think his name could have been a Mr MCray or McVey?) and he told me he often landed in this field, as it used to be a grass airfield during the War, that was used for Stobs Camp and for Hawick.I remember there were a lot of old buildings lining the runway- Does anyone know the history of this airfield, (if it was one?) as I cannot find any reference to it in local history archives.The airstrip was on the single track road, between the top of the hill before going into Bonchester, and joining the Newcastleton road at Shankend.Strange, but true...David Grieve (aka Border Collie) The Saga Continues..."The Mystery inside Whitrope Tunnel..."Between 1963 and 1965, I used to visit the Signalbox at Shankend Station quite regularly, and made firm friends with Mr Harkness, the Signalman there.He often let me change the signals on both lines, top up the banks of batteries which were stored under the signal box, and even operate the points switches and warning bells, (although under his supervision).One Sunday morning, when there were no scheduled passenger trains running until late afternoon, I left my bicycle at the Signalbox, and walked right up to Whitrope Tunnel. Mr Harkness let me take a high-intensity lamp with me, as I intended to walk right through the tunnel.I remember entering the Tunnel at the Shankend end, walking through about 1/3 of a mile, and spotting a set of points that seemed to go nowhere. There was a signal just before the points, but it was covered with grime.I had a close look at the brickwork next to the points, and noticed that a whole section seemed to have been rebuilt.This rebuilt section was just before one of the overhead air vents.I didn't walk any further up into the Tunnel, as I remember I was getting very wet and cold, so I walked back down to the Signalbox at Shankend.I immediately asked Mr Harkness about what I'd found, and I recall he pointed to the end of the bank of point and signal switches, where a couple were covered up with canvas hoods, and he said that these were the switches for the points and signal that I'd found in the Tunnel. He said they had never been used for years since the points and signal had been removed.He then told me the 'secret'....Apparently at one time, there had been a siding built inside Whitrope Tunnel, accessible only from this single set of points and signal, and this siding was directly beside the main line Tunnel, about 350yds in length.It was specifically used to 'park' carriages owned by "The War Ministry" which had come from the Armaments Depot down at Longtown, and which were loaded with ammunitions, shells, and other explosives, etc, under cover and in safety inside the Tunnel.These carriages were hooked onto the end of mainline passenger trains, (he said only at nightime) and taken up to restock Navy ships that were docked up in Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen.It all was totally secret, not only to protect 'National Security' but also because the Train Operators did not want the Public to know that high explosives were being carried around Scotland, tacked onto the end of passenger trains.So that's the 'Secret inside Whitrope Tunnel'.....Anyone else know about this 'secret'??David Grieve (aka Border Collie) 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 That last tale is an absolute corker! Unearthing these recollections is human archaeology of the best kind 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steele Road Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) Fascinating stuff. Am I right in interpreting that this 'secret siding' was in another spur of tunnel which branched off the the main bore (and later sealed up) as opposed to running alongside the up/down lines inside the existing tunnel? The reason I am assuming this is having walked through the tunnel myself, it does not look wide enough to have accommodated three lines at any point. Edited January 15, 2013 by Steele Road 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawick_1987 Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 Fascinating stuff. Am I right in interpreting that this 'secret siding' was in another spur of tunnel which branched off the the main bore (and later sealed up) as opposed to running alongside the up/down lines inside the existing tunnel? The reason I am assuming this is having walked through the tunnel myself, it does not look wide enough to have accommodated three lines at any point. It was another spur that branched off the main Tunnel bore, on the side that ran from Shankend towards Riccarton.If I remember correctly, it was approx. between 1/2 and 1/3rd of a mile in, and the bricked in part was just before a roof vent- very difficult to spot unless you looked closely at it. Wonder if any history sites about the Longtown Armaments depot contains more information about it? Let's know if you discover any further info, David Grieve (aka Border Collie) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Oh. I'm rocking back on my heels at this point.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernowtim Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Must get trawling ebay for some 'retro' ones. Dave. Have a Sept 1967 Railway Modeller I could send to start the magazine collection 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37175 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I'm lucky enough to have all (and I mean ALL) the BUR engineer reports from when the tunnel was dug, currently in a folder on my bookcase. I have studied these at great length and there is absolutely no mention whatsoever of such a secondary bore being tunnelled when the main bore was tunnelled. I would also think it highly unlikely that during the lifetime of the railway being operational such a massive undertaking was taken in a working tunnel. There are also no overhead air vents as the shafts were infilled, though no.4 shaft (around 400 yards from the south portal) still continues to pour water at great rates and it's likely the wall around this section occasionally had to be rebuilt & strengthened. There are in fact several sections of the tunnel lining that have been renewed at some stage. Border Collie says he saw a set of points and a signal inside the tunnel yet the Shankend Bobby, seemingly knowing a lot about the "secret", said these had been removed. Like Steele Road, I too have walked through the tunnel, on many occasions, and have also videoed inside the tunnel aided by hi-intensity lamps. Not wishing to be a sceptic, but I have my doubts - it sounds like this is a classic tale of someone being at the receiving end of a practical joke - a good one, but a joke nonetheless, I'm sorry to say. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37175 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Aye, the p.way like their creature comforts, especially in remote corners where they think they're not going to get bothered by the "gaffers". A LNER pre-cast concrete p.way hut (deliciously art- deco) reinstated in the cutting at Whitrope Summit is a long cherished ambition, but I fear I'll have my work cut out dragging Max Stafford, Tony G and Co away from the fire on a cold winter's day. Dare say the modern day "general interest" publications will find their way in there too.... I'm guessing that there'll be a few "heritage" ones stashed somewhere offshore .... these could be preserved somewhere more deserving to give it a retro-feel, so to speak. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37175 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 A little bit of background detail about the construction of Whitrope Tunnel (detail which has been gathered from the engineer reports that I previously mentioned), the whole 3 years of which can be found on one of the interpretation boards in Whitrope Heritage Centre together with diagrams of how the tunnel was constructed and much, much more: At the begining of the project most of the workmen were engaged on the Tunnel as would be expected, 197 men worked on the tunnel often twenty four hours per day including some miners which Mr Ritson had brought from his project in Wales at Briton Ferry. The Whitrope contract was worth £72,000 and at the end it cost just over £76,000. The project was supposed to be finished on 20th August 1861 but because of the appalling weather and the water pouring into the tunnel, the first passenger train actually ran on 1st July 1862. The Shafts were numbered from the north and shaft number 1 was commenced on 16th November 1859, the other shafts having commeneced on 3rd October. The deepest shaft was number 3, nearest the centre of the tunnel, which amounted to 276 feet deep. The problems with the water manifested themselves from the beginning. A horse gin was constructed to pump out the water, this proved of only limited use. It was only when a steam pump was finally hauled up from Hawick that the water level could be reduced. Sadly a number of horses died of exhaustion in trying to reduce the levels before the steam pump arrived. In October all the land had been purchased and three cuttings were in progress and a start had been made to all five shafts in the tunnel and a temporary "way" had been laid from the turnpike road at Limekilknedge along the line of the tunnel. The shafts are all in red sandstone and the dimensions of each are 9ft x 7ft. At this stage there is no sign of water but that changed very soon after. 17 navvy huts had been built and others were in progress. By November 27 gallons of water per minute were pouring into shaft 4 and progress on this shaft has been stopped. The number of men employed has now reached 316 men. A temporary railway has been built along the tunnel; a steam engine to pump out the water from shafts 4 & 5 has been purchased and is "on the road". Copyright © WRHA 2012 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steele Road Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Border Collie says he saw a set of points and a signal inside the tunnel yet the Shankend Bobby, seemingly knowing a lot about the "secret", said these had been removed. Just to play Devil's Advocate here, could he have meant removed as in disconnected ie removed from operation/switched out of use? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37175 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Just to play Devil's Advocate here, could he have meant removed as in disconnected ie removed from operation/switched out of use? Possibly, it still seems like a good tall tale though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawick_1987 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 I'll pass this on in the nicest possible terms, great information though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steele Road Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I've been pondering about the points and signal inside Whitrope tunnel. Could they have been there to allow banking locos on the down line to cross over and return to the Holm on the up once they had assisted their train over Whitrope summit? As for being operated by Shankend box; that would have been a very long pull, especially considering Whitrope Siding 'box was a lot nearer. Hmmm... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now