Andy Y Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Prompted by an off-forum discussion about this image http://www.rmweb.co...._25#entry872822 the question is did a Merchant Navy ever get north of Oxford and run to Birmingham (or beyond)? Plenty of Bulleid's Light Pacifics did so over the years but did an MN and is there any photographic evidence? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Pretty sure the answer is yes Andy, but that will be today's research !!!! Hopefully back to you later Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Thanks Phil! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Prompted by an off-forum discussion about this image http://www.rmweb.co...._25#entry872822 the question is did a Merchant Navy ever get north of Oxford and run to Birmingham (or beyond)? Plenty of Bulleid's Light Pacifics did so over the years but did an MN and is there any photographic evidence? Presumably you mean other than during the 1948 Exchanges or railtours? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Correct; I should have clarified. The question was intended to be general in the extreme but more specifically were any piloted forward from Oxford on specials? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 One made it to Stockport on a special in the 1960's. It is in one of the NW books. Clan Line in preservation. Mike Wiltshire edit. Thanks to my mate Chris who has found one of the shots I remembered. 35026 Lamport and Holt Line at Stockport Edgely shed whilst working a railtour in the north of England on page 88 of "Bulleid Pacifics at Work" by Colonel H.C.B. Rodgers Quick Google and there is a shot of 35026 at York https://www.flickr.c...450/8006987656/ and at Newcastle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 35022 went to Rugby twice in 1952 to be tested on the rollers at the Testing Station there but I have never seen any mention of how it was worked to and from there, but I suspect light engine.However, the engine then went up to the Settle and Carlisle line for Controlled Road Tests with a Dynamometer Car in October/November of that year. After that it was fitted with a single blast pipe and chimney and revisited the Test Plant in March 1953. Its final visit to Rugby came in December 1953/January 1954. JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Must have been a railtour regular. 35026 at Snow Hill on a different date https://www.flickr.c...N08/6462554605/ Mike Wiltshire And piloted by a 9f same day https://www.flickr.c...N08/6462552755/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 One got to Derby on a railtour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 13, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2012 I remember one coming to Snow Hill on a special around 1966. Still got the press cutting from the Birmingham Mail somewhere, I was on the picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Correct; I should have clarified. The question was intended to be general in the extreme but more specifically were any piloted forward from Oxford on specials? Hi Andy It's not being piloted, but there's a photo of Port Line at Banbury on 12 March 1966 on a returning Soton - Wolves football special in John Sagar's book "Steam in Action - Bulleid Pacifics". The caption indicates that it worked the train throughout. I'd have loved to have some MN thrash up Hatton, but I was only 1 year old at the time and might not have appreciated the rarity value! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Must have been a railtour regular. 35026 at Snow Hill on a different date https://www.flickr.c...N08/6462554605/ Mike Wiltshire And piloted by a 9f same day https://www.flickr.c...N08/6462552755/ That is the one I had in the recesses of my memory. Thanks "coach bogie". Slightly OT but still relating to steam in New St. A colleague of mine who started as a cleaner and fireman at Oxley in 1965 told me of a trip to Kings Norton once. Towards the very end of steam in the West Midlands, they were returning light from Kings Norton to Oxley and were routed via the West Suburban into New St to "change ends" then run across the Stour Valley. The signalman in New St was horrified when the "target" tuned out to be a BR Std class mogul instead of the perceived diesel, and it was rapidly despatched up Monument Lane !!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 13, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2012 I remember one coming to Snow Hill on a special around 1966. Still got the press cutting from the Birmingham Mail somewhere, I was on the picture. Looking at Six Bells Junction it would have been 35022 on 27th November 1965. Worked Warwickshire Railway Society special Waterloo, Neasden, Aylesbury, Bletchley, Nuneaton, and Water Orton. 70012 took over from Park Lane Junction to Crewe and back to Wolverhampton LL via Wrexham and Shrewsbury. 35022 then took it back to Paddington, booked via High Wycombe, Northolt, Greenford and Old Oak West. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 13, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2012 That is the one I had in the recesses of my memory. Thanks "coach bogie". Slightly OT but still relating to steam in New St. A colleague of mine who started as a cleaner and fireman at Oxley in 1965 told me of a trip to Kings Norton once. Towards the very end of steam in the West Midlands, they were returning light from Kings Norton to Oxley and were routed via the West Suburban into New St to "change ends" then run across the Stour Valley. The signalman in New St was horrified when the "target" tuned out to be a BR Std class mogul instead of the perceived diesel, and it was rapidly despatched up Monument Lane !!!! Also OT, but I remember more consternation at New St PSB just after the wires were switched on, when Saltley shed sent the Breakdown Train out towards Selly Oak with a Black 5 on the front. It got routed back via Camp Hill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 13, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2012 The WR and they were also permitted, with restrictions, over the West London Line 1963 Route Availability book shows them as permitted without any restrictions 'Oxford via Banbury to Wolverhampton'. However they were definitely a rarity on workings off the Southern to Oxford although - I think - not entirely unknown on the usual booked SR turns to Oxford. (As an aside they were also permitted to run to Plymouth via Newton Abbott but were banned from all the ex SR lines in the Plymouth area including the route into Friary) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meil Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 There is a photograph somewhere of one at Millers Dale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Not a "Merchant", and only just north of Oxford granted, but I felt this lovely picture deserved an airing on here because it is a Bulleid lightweight and is therefore very nice, and on a freight !!! http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8073/8256503740_1dba688e11_b.jpg This is Gerald's Flickr site http://www.flickr.com/photos/64215236@N03/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunker3 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I rember seeing 35007 Aberdeen Commenwealth at Selby (ECML) on a special 1966/7ish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 As part of the initial conversation Tony Wright dropped me an email - I've just noticed your thread relating to this 'Merchant Navy' business, prompted by the picture in question. I've checked in John Sagar's book and there (on page 32) is the evidence of an MN on a football special north of Oxford. I admit, I missed this one in my 'research' last night. I can only conclude that it went from Banbury to Aynho, thence to Oxford, Didcot, Reading West, Basingstoke and finally to Southampton (it's carrying the appropriate SR route code). But, it's the bit between Aynho and Didcot which had the restriction on weight (in the same way that the 'Kings' never used this route). However, by this date (1966), things were getting slacker but I'll venture to state that the presence of 35027 (at least a Bournemouth-based loco) on a football special to/from the West Midlands was (probably) a one-off. It's true, where there was no restriction on weight - the ex-GC, ex-L&NWR and ex-GWR main lines to the West Midlands - then MNs were often seen on railtours, particularly towards the end of steam. (My italics) as this seems to be the pertinent point that if an MN did run from Southampton on such a working by which route would it have reached Oxford? We also speculated where would such a footex for Villa Park have terminated? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 13, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2012 (My italics) as this seems to be the pertinent point that if an MN did run from Southampton on such a working by which route would it have reached Oxford? We also speculated where would such a footex for Villa Park have terminated? See Post No.15 above and note also that MN were permitted without any restriction between Reading New Jcn or Oxford Road Junction and Oxford via Didcot without restriction. All SR classes were permitted without restriction between Southcote Jcn and Reading New Jcn via Oxford Road Jcn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 As part of the initial conversation Tony Wright dropped me an email - (My italics) as this seems to be the pertinent point that if an MN did run from Southampton on such a working by which route would it have reached Oxford? We also speculated where would such a footex for Villa Park have terminated? I can say that a number of footexes to Villa Park from the south, after unloading at Witton, ended up at Walsall for servicing. There are photos by Jack Haddock of Bl*e P*ll**s on Ryecroft shed for fuelling and servicing prior to running empty back to Witton, for the return journey. One example was the semi final of the FA cup in 1964 when 'Villa played Swansea. On the same page of his book Walsall's Engine shed, Jack refers to another rare visitor 72000 "Clan Buchanan" which ended up on Ryecroft in 1955 off a special train. Of interest the "headcode" hanging off the smokebox door handrail read S1187. EDIT I've just realised we can actually write Blue Pullman now can't we ? How times have changed !!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Andy - the Villa Park footex workings would have terminated at Aston and / or Witton stations, both of them being within walking distance of the ground itself. I dare say the empty stock would hve then gone to Oxley via Perry Bar / Soho, or the other way via Bescot, Portabello Jcn and Wolves high level. Edit : nice one Phil... your post arrived as I was still typing mine mate...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mow Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 As part of the initial conversation Tony Wright dropped me an email - (My italics) as this seems to be the pertinent point that if an MN did run from Southampton on such a working by which route would it have reached Oxford? We also speculated where would such a footex for Villa Park have terminated? April 27th 1963 FA Cup semi-finals at AVFC, 15 special trains from Southampton arrived at Birmingham Snow Hill. 14 were hauled by Bulleid Light Pacifcs, 3 arrived via Worcester piloted by Class 8Fs from Stourbridge. Photos in Colin Garrett- The Golden Years of Steam Trains - photos of Rev AWV Mace. The combination of Light Pacific + 8F intrigued me - sorry for going off topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The footexes to Witton for Villa Park are quite interesting and I note photos of some trains which ran from Stourbridge Jn at various times with class 56xx/66xx on non corridors. If they ran to Hawthornes for the West Bromwich Albion games I can understand that, but if they ran to Witton for Villa Park they presumably went down Soho bank and faced towards Walsall, Wolverhampton or Bushbury. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 April 27th 1963 FA Cup semi-finals at AVFC, 15 special trains from Southampton arrived at Birmingham Snow Hill. 14 were hauled by Bulleid Light Pacifcs, Excellent, but no evidence of MNs for that one? My initial thoughts were Aston or Witton, by what route did they get there? Small Heath - New Street - Hansdsworth - Aston (and then run around for ecs to Walsall)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.