Whats on your 2mm Work bench

[Orange Cat]

 this hole was anything but square. 

 

 

Round, perhaps? They usually are.

[nick_bastable]

nice try  best tool in my box is the proxxon miller drills lovely straight holes

 

the M7 etch is a thing of beauty even I managed to build one and have it running at a show for the weekend ( my first ever successful 2mm chassis  ) although I cheated and built it as a  0-4-2-2

 

 

check out 3:34 minutes in 

 

 

Nick

 

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by nick_bastable

[CF MRC]

With double sided PCB spacers it is better to have the top layer below the frame top Gareth, that way it is less likely to peel away because the paxolin is sandwiched between two soldered joints. A good vertical drill press is well worth the money.

Hand drilling any hole over a long distance is terribly challenging. We can chat at Ally Pally when you are over in a couple of weeks.

 

Tim

[Phil Copleston]

Hello all,

 

Following on from my post #1434 (25th October 2016) about the three baseplates for my new 2mm finescale standard gauge circular layout, after a long gap here is a construction update from the workbench:

 

 

6mm ply risers push-fitted into slots in one of the three 9mm ply curved baseplates, but not yet glued in place.  

 

 

The risers now glued in and the lower cross-strengtheners attached and clamped. I'm not sure these latter are really needed but they may help make the baseplates and the riser joints more rigid. Two more baseplates awaiting risers can be seen stacked in the background.

 

 

More clamping to hold the outer end-plates in place (now double thickness) as the wood glue sets. More fretted-out risers lie on the bench ready for the next baseplate.

 

 

The top 6mm ply decks (where the scenery will be!) now attached to two of the boards and stacked together. As the daylight fades, this was the end of another day's hard baseboard building! Three photos taken on Sunday, 5th March.

 

 

 

These last two photos show the complete circular layout of all three baseboards temporarily clamped together to see how it looks. The inner, lower, fiddleyard strips are also now in place. Photos taken last Saturday, 11th March.

 

The three board joints are set exactly 120 degrees apart, and have an overall diameter of 1,676mm (5' 6"). There is a constant falling (or rising) gradient throughout the scenic section (to and from the two inner fiddleyards) of 1:127. Track viewing level will eventually be at chest height, 1,372mm (54"). These boards are to my own design of 'semi-monocoque' construction.

 

Almost complete with just the cross-over "flyover" to install (will eventually be hidden), the river bridges drop-sections (and a couple of other side bits) to cut out, and the inner and outer 4mm ply scenic side-profiles to attach. Nearly there. Thereafter, I have the three ply leg units and curved ply separation beams to fabricate, plus a couple of transport carry boxes to take the boards, legs and (eventually) the parasol-like suspended catenary lighting spider.

 

So, now that the "principal baseboard building" (to paraphrase a term from the film industry) is complete, let cork laying, track building and actual model-making commence. Hurrah! 

 

As I said in my earlier post, further updates will follow as construction proceeds...

Edited March 16, 2017 by Phil Copleston

[nick_bastable]

Hello all,

 

Following on from my post #1434 (25th October 2016) about the three baseplates for my new 2mm finescale standard gauge circular layout, here is a construction update from the workbench:

 

20170305_131021 (enhanced) 1600.jpg

 

6mm ply risers push-fitted into slots in one of the three 9mm ply curved baseplates, but not yet glued in place.  

 

20170305_144114 (enhanced) 1500.jpg

 

The risers now glued in and the lower cross-strengtheners attached and clamped. I'm not sure these latter are really needed but they may help make the baseplates and the riser joints more rigid.

 

20170305_162603 (enhanced) 1600.jpg

 

More clamping to hold the outer end-plates in place (now double thickness) as the wood glue sets. More fretted-out risers lie on the bench ready for the next baseplate.

 

20170305_175619 (enhanced) 1600.jpg

 

The top 6mm ply decks (where the scenery will be!) now attached to two of the boards and stacked together. The end of another day's hard baseboard building! These three photos taken on Sunday, 5th March.

 

20170311_173659 (enhanced) 1600.jpg

 

20170311_173752 (enhanced) 1600.jpg

 

These last two photos show the complete circular layout of all three baseboards temporarily clamped together to see how it looks. The inner, lower, fiddleyard strips are also now in place. These boards are to my own design of 'semi-monocoque' construction. Photos taken last Saturday, 11th March. 

 

Almost complete, with just the cross-over "flyover" to install, the river bridges drop-sections (and a couple of other bits) to cut out, and the inner and outer 4mm ply scenic side-profiles to attach. Nearly there.

 

Thereafter, I have the three leg units and curved support beams to construct, plus a couple of transport carry boxes to take the boards, legs and (eventually) the parasol-like suspended lighting spider.

 

So now that the "principal baseboard building" (to paraphrase a term from the film industry) is complete, let cork laying, track building and actual model-making commence. Hurrah! 

 

As I said in my earlier post, further updates will follow as construction proceeds...

blimey that looks interesting with great woodwork

 

Nick

[queensquare]

Hi Phil, great progress - soon be time to get some track nailed down!

 

Regarding the use of cork as an underlay in 2mm, I'd have another think about that. In my experience it's more trouble than it's worth and by the time track is glued down and ballasted any sound deadening properties it ever had are gone. I have used 1mm ply successfully in the past though on Tucking Mill I used balsa.

 

Jerry

[D869]

Following on from my post #1434 (25th October 2016) about the three baseplates for my new 2mm finescale standard gauge circular layout, after a long gap here is a construction update from the workbench:

 

Looks good. How were all of those fancy shapes cut out? Was it all manually done or was there some automated assistance? DIY or outsourced?

 

Regards, Andy

[Douglas G]

Hi Phil, great progress - soon be time to get some track nailed down!

 

Regarding the use of cork as an underlay in 2mm, I'd have another think about that. In my experience it's more trouble than it's worth and by the time track is glued down and ballasted any sound deadening properties it ever had are gone. I have used 1mm ply successfully in the past though on Tucking Mill I used balsa.

 

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

 

I'd be interested if you could expand on the problems with cork as an underlay in 2mm scale. My thoughts are that as it is soft, it is easier to make channels under it for wires, point actuating rods and the like, and easier to cut than plywood.

 

I will be at this stage soon with Dulverton. I know there can be issues with glueing the cork down - I was planning to use evostick impact adhesive.

 

Regards,

 

Douglas

[CF MRC]

I have always taken the view that it is better to have a hard reliable surface under the track, especially at baseboard joints. Noise abatement with cork is not going to be very worthwhile, once the track is ballasted. As Jerry says, a thin layer of ply can be used to raise up the track, but equally, it's not too difficult to remove a layer of ply if required, using craft knives and sharp chisels. All services on our layout come through the baseboard, rather than along the top. Again, if required, there is no real problem in grooving the ply with hand tools or a bur in a Dremel.

 

Tim

[Phil Copleston]

Looks good. How were all of those fancy shapes cut out? Was it all manually done or was there some automated assistance? DIY or outsourced?

 

Regards, Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

No, all made by me. The shapes were cut out using a pillar drill (for the corners), a band saw, a hand-held jig saw and by hand using a fret saw. Then the edges cleaned up using glass paper. The rest is all about careful marking out, accurate working, and attention to finish. Having access to a decent wood workshop and tools helps too.

 

The resulting 'semi-monocoque' baseboards are immensely strong, ridgid and light. For this form of circular layout they are ideal. The only tricky thing was setting up the 120 degree joints to be spot on otherwise the whole thing won't work.

 

But I made sure I carefully marked it all out on a full sized cartidge paper masterplan using my own made 60cm diameter protractor and then carefully measuring the resultant chords. From the masterplan were derived the tracing paper cutting templates which I then used to prick through the shapes onto sheets of ply, then I drew it all back in again. Long-winded, but pretty straightforward really. 

 

The paper masterplan was then used to draw out the complete track plan (there are three through stations based on actual prototypes) and associated scenic features (bridges, etc.). From this was derived the cork cutting templates, which is where I am at now.

 

Here are a couple of extra close-ups of one of the 'semi-monocoque' baseboards:

 

 

 

I know there can be issues with glueing the cork down - I was planning to use evostick impact adhesive.

 

Hi Douglas (and Jerry),

 

I wouldn't use evostick. I stick down the cork with good quality wood (white) glue. After initial gluing, the boards are inverted onto a nice flat workbench surface and plenty of weight applied. Works a treat, resulting in a lovely flat surface. I like to work with a cork trackbed because, a) I believe it has some useful sound deadening qualities, b) I like the natural texture to work onto, and c) I like the smell! 

 

As for wiring and cutting slots etc., as this layout will be DCC operated with mechanically controlled turnouts, apart from vertical dropper wires from the track to the bus wires underneath there will be hardly any wiring required. Keep it simple, I say!

 

Thank you all for your kind and encouraging comments.

 

More anon...

Edited March 16, 2017 by Phil Copleston

[Yorkshire Square]

Looks very nice Phil. You could have a bit of underground railway in there!

[Phil Copleston]

Looks very nice Phil. You could have a bit of underground railway in there!

 

Thanks. Ahhh, but there is a reason for that extra depth. More will be revealed later... 

[Orange Cat]

Thanks. Ahhh, but there is a reason for that extra depth. More will be revealed later... 

 

Is there a reason why the surface appears to be unsupported between the cross members? Unless you are building a roller-coaster? I wouldn't like to trust that ply to stay level without some vertical supports along its length.

[JohnBS]

Phil,

I think that OrangeCat is correct - in my view, getting the horizontal alignment (the level) is trickier than coping with the directional alignment, which is easy to check visually. I run a carefully planed spline beam unde the centreline of the track before fixing the track bed, then plane the track bed and fix the rails directly to this. More layers just gives more opportunity for errors to creep in. I then finish everything off with a gentle pass with a nine-inch file or a carborundum stone. This gets rid of the switch-back over baseboard joints.

Hope that this helps.

Best wishes,

John

[Phil Copleston]

Is there a reason why the surface appears to be unsupported between the cross members? Unless you are building a roller-coaster? I wouldn't like to trust that ply to stay level without some vertical supports along its length.

 

I think that OrangeCat is correct - in my view, getting the horizontal alignment (the level) is trickier than coping with the directional alignment, which is easy to check visually. I run a carefully planed spline beam unde the centreline of the track before fixing the track bed, then plane the track bed and fix the rails directly to this. More layers just gives more opportunity for errors to creep in. I then finish everything off with a gentle pass with a nine-inch file or a carborundum stone. This gets rid of the switch-back over baseboard joints.

Hope that this helps.

 

Thank you both for your concern and advice. Much appreciated.

 

I spent quite a lot of time considering how these support structures will function, including seeking advice from those with considerable experience with plywood baseboard construction. No doubts were expressed that this might not work.

 

The horizontal spans of 6mm ply between the uprights are 27cm (10½") on the inner curve, with 34cm (13¼") on the outer face. The upper surface is dead level, well on a designed continuous 1:127 gradient anyway. However, should it prove neccessary I can always add a spline beam later, as John suggests. We shall see. But at the moment all seems well.

 

Don't forget, this is not a passive deck of ply between uprights as on a normal baseboard. But instead is a stressed integral structural member of the 'semi-monocoque' design. Each monocoque compartment is a very ridgid 'box-like' structure, similar to Telford's once famous 'Britannia Bridge' over the Menai. I shall keep an eye on it anyway.

 

So, as long as I don't deliberately set it on fire (like the bridge), I shall be alright! 

Edited March 16, 2017 by Phil Copleston

[Yorkshire Square]

Is there a reason why the surface appears to be unsupported between the cross members? Unless you are building a roller-coaster? I wouldn't like to trust that ply to stay level without some vertical supports along its length.

 

Brafferton is built with radial splines at the same frequency although that is made of five baseboards with three cells per section rather than three baseboards with five cells each. I have had no issues in the eight years it has been built; the space between each spline is little miore than 12" at its widest. Phil's layout is slightly smaller than Brafferton - 5'6" o/d as against Braffertion's 6' sio should have even less of an issue.

 

I should point out that Brafferton was built with the slightly superior Yorkshire system of "mono cock"...

Edited March 17, 2017 by Yorkshire Square

[queensquare]

I should point out that Brafferton was built with the slightly superior Yorkshire system of "mono cock"...

I don't think Phil will have any problems with sagging between supports. If Brafferton has been problem free in the thin air of the frozen north I suspect the balmy climes of the south west will only act in its favour

 

Jerry, only an hour or so from the M4 frontier!

[2mm Andy]

No, all made by me. The shapes were cut out using a pillar drill (for the corners), a band saw, a hand-held jig saw and by hand using a fret saw. Then the edges cleaned up using glass paper. The rest is all about careful marking out, accurate working, and attention to finish. Having access to a decent wood workshop and tools helps too.

 

 

 

 

Looking good Phil. I'd add good quality materials to your list - the difference that the use of decent birch plywood makes to baseboard construction is huge in my experience. I'd never go back to using the awful stuff sold by some of the big DIY sheds now. By the time you add the plywood side profiles I think it'll be a very strong and stable set of boards.

 

Btw, any chance you could create a separate thread for your layout? I find that long-running topics often get lost on the general workbench threads and are difficult to find later.

 

Andy

[Phil Copleston]

Looking good Phil. I'd add good quality materials to your list - the difference that the use of decent birch plywood makes to baseboard construction is huge in my experience. I'd never go back to using the awful stuff sold by some of the big DIY sheds now. By the time you add the plywood side profiles I think it'll be a very strong and stable set of boards.

 

Btw, any chance you could create a separate thread for your layout? I find that long-running topics often get lost on the general workbench threads and are difficult to find later.

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks. Yes, a good idea to create a separate thread (or blog) about my layout, if you think people will be interested. I had sort of wondered whether that might be a better place for it. I shall look into it and post a link on here. Good call!

 

You are quite right about only utilising good quality materials - more expensive, but well worth it. My ply is top-quality Russian birch ply obtained from Timber Cut, Marsh Barton Industrial Estate, Exeter https://www.roachcarpenters.co.uk/timber-cut  The ply is so smooth and creamy it cuts like cheese (no ragging), which is a pleasure to work with. Timber Cut will accurately slice up the 8' x 4' ply sheets into three managable bits (for a reasonable sum) so I can get them into the back of my car. Very handy.

 

All gluing is done using industrial strength 'Titebond Original Wood Glue' (much stronger than Resin W) available from Axminster Tools, Axminster, Devon http://www.axminster.co.uk/titebond  A few panel pins are added to hold the trackbed down while the glue sets, but nothing more.

 

These are the same suppliers my baseboard mentor and good friend Maurice Hopper uses. So highly recommended. 

 

Well observed about the side profiles. Indeed, by the time I've added the inner and outer scenic profiles to the three boards they will be even stronger and stable. So I am having no worries there.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Phil Copleston

[Ian Morgan]

Phil,

 

If you create a blog on here, Nigel can link to it from the 2mm Scale Association home page to announce new entries automatically - I don't think forum threads are included in RSS feeds.

 

However, I get the feeling forum threads get more views.

 

Either way, I will follow progress on what you are building.

[Donw]

I would agree with Phil that evostick is not the best for sticking down cork you can get lumps in the cork. Using PVA it does seem to soak into the cork a little reducing the softness. I dont see much need for it. However I do find raising the track a little from the surface a great help. The balsa suggested by Jerry is a good option I have also used card packing to adjust levels.  

Don

[CF MRC]

I don't think Phil will have any problems with sagging between supports. If Brafferton has been problem free in the thin air of the frozen north I suspect the balmy climes of the south west will only act in its favour

Jerry, only an hour or so from the M4 frontier!

Nah...everything goes mouldy in the sodden SW. Least it does in our caravan.

 

Tim

[Donw]

Nah...everything goes mouldy in the sodden SW. Least it does in our caravan.

 

Tim

 

Ah but we do get some lovely cream me dear.

[2mmMark]

I've used 300mm square cork floor tiles as track underlay. Defintely a lot better that the rolls of cork sheet sold for this purpose. The tiles have a finished level surface top and bottom and seem less compressible than untreated cork. Adjacent to baseboard joints, I substituted ply for the cork.

 

Mark

[Middlepeak]

Sorry to interrupt a 2mmFS thread, but here in the relatively bigger world of p87, I'm about to embark on an experiment using 15mm thick cork as an underlay. The idea is that the greater thickness gives better separation between the track and the baseboard top, and therefore less noise transmission. We'll see!

 

Another advantage of cork is that the templot drawing can be laser cut into the surface, which is a great help for tracklaying.

 

Regards,

 

Geraint