RosiesBoss Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Introduction I am fascinated by unusual GWR locos and rolling stock – particularly absorbed and elderly ones which worked in areas of Wales with family connections (Radnorshire, Breconshire, Carmarthenshire, Cardiganshire) and especially those which ran on or near the former Mid-Wales Railway. So far, I have built/rebuilt/acquired the following: GWR 1196 (ex-Cambrian Railway) – scratchbuilt GWR 1670 (ex- Brecon & Merthyr Railway) – modified Dublo body on scratchbuilt chassis GWR 908 (ex-Cambrian Railway) – Lima H0 4F loco chassis & footplate, Hornby J94 wheels, scratchbuilt boiler & cab, Mainline powered tender GWR 3265 “Tre Pol & Pen” – Airfix outside frames & bogie, scratchbuilt boiler & cab, scratchbuilt chassis, Tri-ang tender GWR 3282 “Comet” – K’s whitemetal kit – remotored GWR 5 “Portishead” – K’s whitemetal kit GWR 2161 (ex- Brecon & Merthyr Railway) – Centre Models whitemetal kit, Portescap motor GWR 2517 – Mainline body, Wills 1854 class chassis, Romford wheels, Airfix tender GWR 848 – Modified Airfix 48XX body, Dapol chassis Current Project Some years ago, I acquired a Hornby “Terrier” 0-6-0 model and started to explore how I could integrate it into my GWR collection. Its chassis runs perfectly and shows no sign of wear, but the body has been damaged somewhat. As I already had “Portishead”, I looked for a different class of similar dimensions. The nearest I could find was ex-Bristol & Exeter Railway 1376, which worked the Tanat Valley Railway post-grouping. The model chassis is just about right, but the body requires so much alteration that I think it will be simpler to scratchbuild a replacement from brass & copper. I have searched for published photos of 1376 and have only unearthed the following: RCTS “The Locomotives of the Great Western Railway”, Part three, Plate C137. (The same photo is in Modellers’ Back Track (“MBT”), June/July 1992) Williams, C.L.: “More Great Western Steam In Wales and the Border Counties” (Bradford Barton, 1975) I can work from a 4mm-scaled copy of the MBT image, but I would prefer to work from a scale drawing. The BRMNA website magazine references do not list any apart from MBT (which only has the photograph). Are there any such drawings about that I could obtain a copy of? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Introduction I am fascinated by unusual GWR locos and rolling stock – particularly absorbed and elderly ones which worked in areas of Wales with family connections (Radnorshire, Breconshire, Carmarthenshire, Cardiganshire) and especially those which ran on or near the former Mid-Wales Railway. I started a model of this some years ago - a Plasikard body on a Tri-ang TT 0-6-0T chassis - to have extended axles for EM gauge -, but gave up due to the lack of a suitable drawing. She seems to have missed out mention in most of the 'standard' reference books. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 Hello everyone, I need to make one correction and list another photograph for 1376. The photo in the RCTS volume is actually the same as on page 17 of C.C.Green "Cambrian Railways Album Vol.2" Ian Allen, 1981). The MBT photo looks to have been taken on the same day by H.C.Casserley from a slightly different angle. Another image, taken from the other side of the loco, was sold recently on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Railway-Photograph-GWR-ex-Bristol-Exeter-Railway-060T-No-1376-Oswestry-/140901136471?pt=UK_Collectables_Railwayana_RL&hash=item20ce5cb857 There may be enough info in these 4 images to begin the project. We'll see. Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 The only photo I have is rather small and dark in 'Locomotives at the Grouping No. 4' by Casserley and Johnston. It shows 1376 front buffers to front buffers with 'Tre Pol and Pen' at oswestry in 1926. The boiler top appears to be in line with the boiler centre of 3265, Dimensions given are limited to weight (22 tons 6 cwt (1376) and 24 tons 4 cwt (1377), cylinders (12" x 18") and driver diameter at 3' 6". T.E. is 7,344lb for 1376 and 7,875 lb for 1377 (boiler pressures 140 psi and 150 psi). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwell Hall Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 To the best of my knowledge the only drawing of GWR No.1376 - and her sister 1377 - is the Swindon weight diagram. This was published in my Weymouth Harbour Tramway book - published by Wild SwanPublications in 2001. Beware though for the Swindon weight diagrams are little more than sketches for reference only - they certainly were not intended to erect real locomotives let alone models - and are unreliable. The weight diargram records the locomotive as it was when rebuilt at Swindon 1881 prior to many years service on the Weymouth Harbour Tramway. By the time 1376 went into semi-retirement in Wales she had been considerably altered and was a very elderly engine! Hope this helps. Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 Hello everyone, Thank you to Il Grifone and Bulwell Hall. The photo in "Locomotives at the Grouping" is a small version of that in "More Great Western Steam in Wales", which I originally listed. This is one of my favourite images and led to my kitbashing "Tre Pol & Pen", around 1993: I appreciate the advice re the Swindon weight diagram, as I have seen it included in the OPC lists on the NRM website. I won't bother ordering one of those. It looks like I will indeed have to rely on photographs, scaled against known dimensions. Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 I've begun construction, using a 4mm-scaled copy of the image on page 17 of C.C.Green "Cambrian Railways Album Vol.2" (Ian Allen, 1981). After removing the body and couplings from the Hornby "Terrier", I cut a piece of 1.2mm copper sheet to the size of the footplate and then fretted out openings for the Hornby chassis. I drilled and tapped 8BA holes to secure the footplate to the chassis using the holes originally used for the body securing screws. I then made the cab/tank sides from 0.5 mm copper sheet, allowing a little extra length for the bend towards the boiler at the front of the side tanks: The boiler was next, made from 19mm dia copper pipe, with holes fretted out for the Hornby mechanism. Once this fitted, another piece of the same pipe was cut to length, split and then opened up to become the smokebox wrapper. A piece of 0.1mm brass sheet was then cut to size as the smokebox front. (The door will be fitted much later.) So, before any assembly, I had the following collection of parts: I then soldered together the boiler components and then soldered this assembly to the footplate. Here is the result so far: The side tanks and wheel splashers will conceal most of the ugliness of the mechanism. It will be a couple of days before I get back to this, but I'm happy with the result so far. Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I thought the photo I had was probably one of those already listed. There don't seem to be many. I was wondering about using a Mainline J72 as a basis, but was holding fire hoping to find a drawing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 G'day, David, Thanks for the comment re the J72. I have a very worn Mainline model of one of these also in my scrapbox. Both the Terrier and the J72 are generally similar to 1376, but adapting either requires acceptance of a few compromises. The dimensions of 1376 are: Wheels: 3ft 6in dia. Wheelbase: 6ft 3in + 6ft 3in The J72 dimensions are: Wheels: 4ft 1.25 in dia. Wheelbase: 6ft 8in + 7ft 0in The Terrier's dimensions are: Wheels: 4ft 0in dia. Wheelbase: 6ft 0in + 6ft 0in In addition, my Mainline chassis is very tall and will not fit inside the body of 1376. The Hornby Terrier chassis is much more compact and will just fit into the outline of 1376. I hope this helps clarify my choice of donor chassis. Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 Hello, everyone, More progress. I've fabricated a few more body parts. One of the aspects of this loco is its very GWR-style coal bunker. It's just like those on the 48XX and 517-class, in respect of its subtle curves. With this in mind, I've used the drawing of a 48XX in C.J Freezer "Locomotives in Outline GWR" ((Peco Publications,1977) to get as close to the correct shape as I can. This also gave me help on the curve of the cab roof. Window spacing was conjectured. Here are the parts: Here they are, assembled on the footplate: (I still have to tidy up the excess solder - I ran out of time yesterday!) The next jobs will be to trim back the rear of the boiler, mount the cab front and then the tank sides. Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 G'day, all, Some more progress today: boiler barrel trimmed to length cab floor and front fitted tank sides bent to shape, trimmed and ready to be soldered in Here's a couple of images - one without the tank sides and the other with them just sitting in place, giving an indication of the final look of the model: Still a fair way to go, but it's now starting to look quite promising. Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Rob Very impressive so far, I am looking forward to watching the progress of this loco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 G'day, all, Another fruitful day: tank tops cut to size and soldered into place buffer beams fabricated and fitted body test fitted to chassis and adjusted to eliminate tightness and any short circuits chassis overall length reduced a little to fit between buffer beams Keen observers will notice that the brake blocks are currently behind the driving wheels instead of being in front. This is because I had to reverse the orientation of the chassis from its original relationship with the "Terrier" body. The brake rods are also outside the driving wheels. One of the next jobs will be to take off the plastic keeper plate from the chassis and turn it around, so the brake blocks will be in front of the driving wheels. I will drill new holes for the mounting screws as well as a new slot for the gear wheel. The brake rods will be cut off at this time also. I will then reattach it to the chassis. "Watch this space." Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Hello everyone, More progress today: wheel splashers fabricated using the technique described in Guy Williams "Model Locomotive Construction in 4mm Scale" (Ian Allen, 1979) splashers soldered to footplate and small gaps filled with solder (trick learned when taught panelbeating) body test fitted to chassis again and adjusted to eliminate short circuits excess solder removed and then body polished with wire brush on mini drill Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 G'day, David, Thanks for the comment re the J72. I have a very worn Mainline model of one of these also in my scrapbox. Both the Terrier and the J72 are generally similar to 1376, but adapting either requires acceptance of a few compromises. The dimensions of 1376 are: Wheels: 3ft 6in dia. Wheelbase: 6ft 3in + 6ft 3in The J72 dimensions are: Wheels: 4ft 1.25 in dia. Wheelbase: 6ft 8in + 7ft 0in The Terrier's dimensions are: Wheels: 4ft 0in dia. Wheelbase: 6ft 0in + 6ft 0in In addition, my Mainline chassis is very tall and will not fit inside the body of 1376. The Hornby Terrier chassis is much more compact and will just fit into the outline of 1376. I hope this helps clarify my choice of donor chassis. Regards, Rob Yes it would appear that the J72 is rather larger than 1376. (I seem to have mislaid/thrown out the drawing I made. Your speed of construction puts mine to shame. I only got as far as the cab/tanks and bunker (in Plastikard) - years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 Hello everyone, More progress: Keeper plate reversed on chassis, so brake blocks are now in front of the driving wheels Front and rear crew steps fabricated from copper Tool boxes fabricated from 0.25" square section brass rod Non-standard tank breathers made from brass rod Chimney modified from London Road Models NW3 Dome modified from H0 spare in scrapbox Tri-ang Dean Single safety valve cleaned up Smokebox door made from domed button New fittings soldered or superglued to model My next session will probably focus on finer fittings, such as smokebox door hinges and handles, handrails, boiler bands, scale couplings, etc. Dean/Churchward buffers are on order from Mainly Trains. She now looks more like a locomotive: Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 G'day everyone, More progress on a windy, rainy day: Finishing edging soldered to cab side sheets and bunker top Handrails fitted after drilling lots of sub-millimetre holes with a pin vice and miniature drill bit (Thank goodness that's finished!) Clack valves and feedwater pipes fabricated and fitted Buffer beams drilled for dummy scale couplings Awaiting Dean/Churchward buffers and tank fillers from Mainly Trains. Not far to go now: Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Hi Rob, To quote the Titfield Thunderbolt - what a little beauty! Good job sir. All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 G'day, Castle, Thank you for your encouragement. So far, this has been quite a challenge, due to the lack of drawings and only four photographs known to me. I'm still hopeful that, despite some obvious chassis compromises, the final result will still remind us of the original 1376. I look forward to running her on my fiddleyard to terminus layout with a short train of 4-wheelers. Here's a glimpse of that layout, with GWR 23 and some ex-MSWJR coaches (as described on the GWR Modelling website) and ex-Cambrian Railway toad 8782. Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 Hello everyone, Another fruitful session today, making and fitting some more details: Front sandboxes. Made from 0.25 in square section brass rod - ground, filed and polished to shape, with filler hatch made from card, using a suitable leather punch Smokebox door hinges. Made from brass flat bar and phosphor bronze wire, shaped and soldered together, then superglued to the smokebox door (a modified domed button). Smokebox dart. Made from 0.3mm dia nickel silver wire (purchased for my working H0 tramway's overhead wire, but also used for handrails), a long handrail staunchion and a 14BA washer Boiler bands. Made from self-adhesive paper labels, cut into thin strips. Tank fillers. Hatch punched out of polystyrene sheet (leather punch again). Lock handles made from phosphor bronze and nickel silver wire, shaped then soldered together, then superglued to the model. Cab roof. Made from copper sheet curved to fit the cab, with brass bars soldered inside to correctly locate it onto the cab. This item is currently a firm fit and removable to facilitate access to the cab interior for painting and detailing. Whistles. Commercial items, soldered to the cab roof. Here she is at the end of today's session (photos almost twice the size of the model, cruelly showing up every blemish!): Details still to be added include: buffers lamp brackets and hooks vacuum brake pipes relocated brake rods scale and tension-lock couplings Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 Hello again, Dean/Churchward buffers turned up in the post a couple of days ago. (Thank you, Mainly Trains!) Construction recommenced: Buffers fitted to both buffer beams Scale couplers soldered to buffer beams Bachmann slimline tension-lock couplers fitted to chassis Brake rods removed from outside the wheels and refitted between the wheels Details still to be added include: lamp brackets and hooks vacuum brake pipes Here is the underside of the modified chassis. Remember that the keeper plate has been reversed from its original position. Here are some images of the model at the end of today's session: Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Hello everyone, Only a few obvious changes today: Lamp brackets and rear hooks fabricated from office staples (very fiddly job!) and then superglued into position Vacuum brake pipes formed from ancient insulated single strand intercom wire and superglued into place She's about ready for final cleanup, priming and painting, pending the clearing of Sydney's current very wet weather. Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share Posted March 3, 2013 Hello everyone, Painting has begun, starting with "shop grey" (automotive grey spray primer), applied to the new body: The cab roof is still a loose fit, to facilitate installation of a backhead to the boiler and for the painting of the cab interior. When 1376 is more "colourful", I'll post some more images. Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 After this inspiration, I really must have another go at mine. Now where did I put that TT chassis? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 That's a really characterfull little engine you've put together there. Congratulations. Just goes to show that not all GWR engines looked the same! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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