hayfield Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I have just added extra bits to my last post. The curved Vees are easier in copperclad construction, as with the chair method you have to pre bend then. But looking at the plan I have they are straight crossings I now use the C&L 0.06mm copperclad strips to hold the crossings together, but scrap brass from etched kits is fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Woolford Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 I've just had a look at the c&l website and have found what looks like the pdf files that were previously on the exactoscale website. They can be found here: http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=36 Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Michael The bottom set are the initial ones you work from, the other ones were the plans on Exactoscale site for their kits (Its the plan you get with the kit). I am certain that if you order parts from Peter if you request the odd plan (not the C&L plan) he will oblige Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Woolford Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 Thanks for the advice John, much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Woolford Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 I thought I would add to the pictures I posted the other day and show the plan that could be seen in a couple of the other images, just to show what I am trying to achieve. I'm hoping I don't need to change anything for signalling purposes. I will continue to update on progress to show my journey through planning everything out and my attempts at building my own track. Hopefully to something that can eventually be used on the layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Michael You might want to try and do the plan in Templot first, just to get an idea of how much space you will need. Whilst making slips which is a knack of its own, I would for this purpose use a diamond crossing which would suffice for an outline plan. The reason for me saying this is that Templot will automatically align the turnouts, and you can set the track centres, which will help with not only double track but also where platforms are between tracks. Also it will automatically splice the turnouts together for crossovers. Creating Turnouts, diamonds and crossovers are very easy and for the most is automated. It will be completable with your C&L plans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2013 Using the template which has crossing angles of 1in4.5 and 1in6.5 things seem to fit on a nice curve and there don't seem to be any problems so far. The slip is described as a 1in8 by c&l and Martin Wynne believes this to be rather large for an outside slip. Would be nice to know if anyone else agrees with him on that. Hi Michael, The outside slip in your pictures is 1:4.5 which is a common size for an outside slip. It is not 1:8. I do not know where that description has come from. C&L are in the process of introducing a big new range of templates. These are being drawn by Len Newman in 00 and EM to match the Exactoscale P4 templates. Sadly Len is ill in hospital again (see the update on the C&L web site), so these developments are on hold. Best wishes Len and get well soon. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Woolford Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 I definitely think it is time to bite the bullet and spend some time trying to figure out the basics of Templot, I will have to have a play and see what I can come up with. I did not realise Len was not well, so wishing him a speedy recovery. Once again thanks for the advice. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2013 I definitely think it is time to bite the bullet and spend some time trying to figure out the basics of Templot Hi Michael, This is the first page to read for the basics: http://templot.com/companion/index.html?gs_firstoff.htm Lots of friendly help on the Templot Club forum if you get stuck: http://85a.co.uk/forum/ regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Hi Michael, The outside slip in your pictures is 1:4.5 which is a common size for an outside slip. It is not 1:8. I do not know where that description has come from. C&L are in the process of introducing a big new range of templates. These are being drawn by Len Newman in 00 and EM to match the Exactoscale P4 templates. Sadly Len is ill in hospital again (see the update on the C&L web site), so these developments are on hold. Best wishes Len and get well soon. regards, Martin. Michael The basic layout planning is quite easy to do and it may surprise you how quick and easy it is to make a simple but detailed plan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustytrev Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 I definitely think it is time to bite the bullet and spend some time trying to figure out the basics of Templot, I will have to have a play and see what I can come up with. I did not realise Len was not well, so wishing him a speedy recovery. Once again thanks for the advice. Michael Hello Michael, Even if you dont get round to actually building your layout Templot can be interesting and fun in its own right.Like Martin says there are lots of helpful people on the forum and a fantasic sharing of knowledge. trustytrev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Woolford Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Hello Michael, Even if you dont get round to actually building your layout Templot can be interesting and fun in its own right. I hope I get round to building it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2013 The Templot download will not be available for the next hour or two while I upload a new update program version. Sorry for any inconvenience, please try again later. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Woolford Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 No worries Martin, I already have the program installed; just haven got round to understanding it. I will update in due course. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Michael Go on to Templot Club, good tutorials (though the functionality differs with your version as many were made using the original program) also download and print the short cut keys, they are very usefull Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Woolford Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 I thought I would post a quick update just to show that Templot really isn't that difficult to use when creating basic plans. I will admit that for a long time I have been putting off learning the basics. I had no problem creating simple turnouts and even after having a play with it, diamond crossings were almost as easy. My layout, being a medium sized mainline terminus, makes the use of slightly more complex S&C. As is shown in one of my previous posts, I am using several slips (which includes two outside single slips). I decided to have a go at making a double slip using the single slip tutorial on the Templot website, it proved relatively simple, although I did have to redo a few steps. Not only did I manage to create a double slip, following the tutorial and repeating the steps needed to create the slip roads also showed me how to join pieces of track and other basic manipulating tools. I may have jumped into slightly deep water by attempting what I did, but the fact that after a fairly short period of time I was able to create what I set out to do and pick up on a few other things along the way. I wouldn't necessarily recommend doing what I did to start with, but I suppose the point I am trying to make is that if I can manage a double slip as a first attempt, then I don't see why anyone should have any problems creating a simple scheme. I have come to think that Templot is one of those things that people put off attempting because it seems complicated when in fact, given some time and research is actually very easy to understand. To me, from what I have heard of others being 'put off', I would compare it to wiring a layout. To start with, most people are put off and worry about how complicated it is (I was myself to start with) but once research had been done everything became much clearer (it just takes time). Of course, this is just my personal experience and there will be people who may disagree with the way I have put things. At the end of the day, everyone picks things up at different paces. I feel I have done well and picked things up fairly quickly (of course there is much more to learn and I have probably only just scratched the surface, I only wanted to create a rough outline design). Below is a screenshot of the double slip I made: My next challenge is to try and create an outside single slip so that I can fit a suitably curved turnout that fits nicely. Below you will be able to see the position of platforms 5 and 6 and the two roads they need to align with. From the picture, the platform 6 line looks incredibly tight (which it is at the moment). The image only shows the platforms as they will be at the buffers, so I will have to have quite a wide platform between 4 and 5 towards the end of its length to allow a more gentle curve. The turnout that is required joins the single slip and platform 6 on its tightest curve and carries on to a double slip which enables access to the turntable and headshunt as shown below: You may only just be able to make out the two tracks and the short lines either side representing the platforms. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Woolford Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 Tomorrow I will be making a visit to my local model shop; there is a gentleman by the name of Steve who works there and he has kindly offered to dig out some copper clad turnouts that he has (if he can find them!). I will be using them as something to work towards in the way of constructing crossing vees and switch blades. As I will not be using copperclad on my layout they will serve no working purpose to me. Once I am happy with how things are coming along, I may even use them for parts. I'm sure they will also be useful in the planning of the trackwork. I will post some pictures of the turnouts tomorrow if I get time. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Michael Switch blades are quite easy to make, just practice and a few tools. Building the common crossings is a little more difficult and a different process from copperclad construction ( switch blades are much the same build process in both types of constructions). Once mastered (if one ever masters it) you will find your own preferred method of fabricating both of them. At first building the initial set of each will take some time, certainly building a switch blade will eventually take a couple on minuets. A common crossing between 30 to 60 mins, I find that sometimes they go together quite easily, other times they take ages. Like all things practice makes perfect. Good luck and enjoy the process and don't get hung up if you make the odd mistake or two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Woolford Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 Thanks for the advice John. Would you say that common crossings built for copper clad are unsuitable for ply sleepers and plastic chairs? Or is it just the method of construction that differs? Do you use jigs like those available from the EMGS; is it worth the investment? I quite like the idea of folding a length of rail in half, bending it the the required angle, and filing it as one to create the vees. I am really eager to get going and see what I can come up with. I do need to place an order with C&L for some bits. One of the first things I might do is attempt putting all the bits together (I bought a set of B switch blades and a 1:6 common crossing along with some other bits from a stand at a show for a good price). Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Michael Filing up the rails to form a Vee is much the same, I use a slightly different method that you fancy where you file one side of the first rail down to the web. Then bend it so the outside of the rail is straight. Next file the other side to the required angle. The second rail which is spliced to the first is then filed to the correct angle. I then use a jig made from copperclad sheet and strip and holds both rails in place while they are being soldered together. When build copperclad turnouts I just solder the first rail to the sleepers, followed by the other. Back to chaired track. You now have a Vee, Next is to solder either some brass shim from an etched kit or I use the 0,6mm thick copperclad strip supplied by C&L across the nose of the Vee and another one where the next sleepers is. These pieces should be a little bit longer than the distance required to solder the wing rails to it. With a straight edge and gauge solder the first wing rail in place, then with a flangeway gauge solder the second on to make the common crossing. I also solder a third piece of copperclad strip across what is referred to as the frog. See my old work bench thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57911-hayfields-turnout-workbench/ as photos are much easier to understand. The only jig I use is my own, built from copperclad sheet & strip. The EMGS one would be nice, but there are other tools I would prefer first. Nothing wrong with using the parts you have as it allows you to concentrate on the build and not fabricating the switch blades and common crossings, your decision is whether to use standard chairs and adapt some or use the Exactoscale special chairs as well. PM me if you want a chat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Woolford Posted August 29, 2013 Author Share Posted August 29, 2013 John, Many thanks for that, I will have to spend some time reading through you thread. As I mentioned yesterday, I was offered some old copperclad turnouts. So, today I went to see Steve and he had a pile of turnouts and a few lengths of plain track. When he first offered them to me he did not mention that they were over 30 years old! All of the turnouts are A6 and they are not in the best condition. Like I said before, I may use them for parts as they offer me no functional use. I just need to find a way of cleaning up the rails so I can use them to practice with (any suggestions?). I will add that they are infact 00 fs and for some reason the sleeper sizing and spacing is incorrect. These turnouts were used on an old club layout over 30 years ago, and were pulled up so that they could create a new O Gauge layout. I have taken some photos to show how old they are and the condition that they are in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Michael I think you may spend more time dismantling and cleaning up that they are worth, especially as you will have to remove all traces of solder and they may not be the correct size. Someone else may have the correct answer as to 00 finescale turnouts, but the back to back gauge may differ from modern standards, though it is very easy to alter the check rails. They should be fine for fiddle yards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Here's an excellent view of chaired track being replaced on the Tanfield railway (a blog that is really worth following, like I do, for great close up views of bullhead track, etc) showing the base of the rail nicely and the chairs themselves. The yellow things are the metal keys:- http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-h5en6W6TkM4/Uh-DqDQfvwI/AAAAAAAAPaY/KRzu2_-Opa4/s1600/290820136013b.jpg Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Woolford Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 It has been a while since I last updated this thread and I thought it would be good to give a small progress report...In all honesty, I haven't got any further than when I last posted in this topic. The main reason for this is that the academic year started in September and I have been bogged down by coursework. I did manage to make a visit to my local exhibition; the Swindon railway festival. I also managed to go to the NEC for the Warley show last month. I bought a few items from the C&L stand, so when I get the time I can finally have a go at some trackwork. Before I actually start making track to go on the layout though, I will be buying special chairs so that everything looks right. Since the layout is located in my grandparents garage, and they moved to a bungalow last Wednesday, everything needs to be unpacked and the garage cleared of boxes before any work can be done such as tracklaying. I'm hoping that once I have submitted all of my assignments for the Christmas break, I might actually be able to get some modelling done. In the meantime, back to coursework! More soon I hope, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Woolford Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Finally, a proper update! I have tomorrow morning free and I am going to take the opportunity to have a go at building my first bit of track (it's been a long time coming!). Since I am just dipping my toe in the water to start with. I Will be using a turnout kit bought at Warley back in November; to be specific, the turnout will be a B6 (see below) and I will decide on the handing tomorrow. Of course, gauges and butanone, along with some common tools are required for the build. Hopefully, the build will be an enjoyable experience and is challenging but not too difficult. I have a lot to learn and after several separate attempts, I hope that I am confident enough and have gained the necessary skills to make a start on the trackwork for the new layout. I will report on my attempts tomorrow and hopefully, I should soon have something that might actually work! Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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