British outline locos overseas

[luckymucklebackit]

Cant see a mention for the twenty five NBR J36s that were loaned to the Government for use in France, from October 1917 until July 1919.

 

Jim

[pH]

There was a huge presence of Caledonian Railway "almost lookalikes" on the Belgian State Railway in the early 20th century.

 

The Belgian State Railway ordered 5 Dunalastair IIs from Neilson in 1899, then built another 90 in Belgium. The type was developed further, and additional batches of 140 and 15 engines were built to improved designs. At least one is preserved, with a Caley-type bogie tender.

 

At the same time as they bought the 4-4-0s, the Belgian State Railway obtained details of the Caledonian '812' class 0-6-0s. 82 engines were built to this design in Belgium, then another 809 (!!) of an improved version. At least one still exists.

[EddieB]

Cant see a mention for the twenty five NBR J36s that were loaned to the Government for use in France, from October 1917 until July 1919.

 

Jim

All the major railway companies loaned locomotives to the Railway Operating Division.  There was a series of articles in the Railway Magazine in the early thirties (which has been discussed on this site, possibly earlier in this thread) and covered more recently in a book on the ROD by WT (Bill) Aves. 

 

A little known fact: LNER6000 (the prototype EM1, as I understand it) was hired by NS in the late 1940's as up to then, NS had no electric loco's, only EMU's! In a political deal, it lead to the purchase of 60 French loco's, based on the BB300, as the NS1100 series and 16 locos series NS1300 based on the CC7100.

 

The NS600 Class was actually larger, there were series 500 and 700 loco's as well. Same body, drive system and almost everything, except some differences in equipment like the presence (or lack) of an air pump and air-line to brake attached stock. The NS600 had these, the 500 and 700 didn't.

 

The UK-outline, Canadian-built Class 66 was very popular in Holland as well. Nowadays they've been superseded by electric loco's (mainly BR189, German in origin).

 

In the steam era, many Dutch railways purchased English-build loco's, with Beyer Peacock as a major player in that field. Practically all where, however, of Dutch design and therefore not to UK loading gauge.

The Netherlands was, after Spain, the largest recipient of British-built locomotives during the steam era (totalling upwards of 1,350 locomotives, when second-hand acquisitions, former WD locomotives and industrial systems arev taken into account).  Prior to nationalisation the Hollandsche Ijzeren Spoorweg-Maatschappij (HSM) and the Nederlandsche Rhijnspoorweg-Maatschappij (NRS) were both large customers of Sharp Stewart (and later North Btritish), whereas the contemporay  Staatsspoorwegen (SS) bought heavily from Beyer Peacock.

 

There are some pictures of EM1 "Tommy" (which was LNER 6701 renumbered as 6000) running in the Netherlands in the current issue of "Modern Locomotives Illustrated" (MLI 215).  Between 1949 and 1951, two batches of six SNCF (ex-Paris-Orleans) BB300 locomotives were also loaned.  However the production series 1100 class was based on the SNCF BB8100.  (Domestic production of main line electric locomotives began with the 1000 class in 1948.

 

There was a huge presence of Caledonian Railway "almost lookalikes" on the Belgian State Railway in the early 20th century.

 

The Belgian State Railway ordered 5 Dunalastair IIs from Neilson in 1899, then built another 90 in Belgium. The type was developed further, and additional batches of 140 and 15 engines were built to improved designs. At least one is preserved, with a Caley-type bogie tender.

 

At the same time as they bought the 4-4-0s, the Belgian State Railway obtained details of the Caledonian '812' class 0-6-0s. 82 engines were built to this design in Belgium, then another 809 (!!) of an improved version. At least one still exists.

Of the 0-6-0s, one example of each of the saturated (class 44) and superheated (class 41) forms has survived.  It's a sore point that a second class 44 was sold for scrap a few years ago, when there would have been plenty of interest.  Again, I think it has been mentioned here that some of these Belgian 0-6-0s, which saw war service during WWI, went to Britain for servicing when their continental base was put out of action.

[m0rris]

The railways of Hong Kong give some interesting examples of British outline locos abroad, which look almost comical at times when paired with large colonial style wagons and carriages.

 

Most likely made "famous" by the Bachmann model, the KCR Austerities were brought in after the war to replace/supplement the Kitson locomotives that had served the railway well but were run into the ground during the war period

Recognisable in parts was this bizarre saddle tank which I confess to knowing very little about, other than it looks like a parts bin special made from Hunslet Austerity parts.

The following pair of saddle tanks are very British in outline, the first I know nothing about but the Hudswell Clarke was brought in to help build the line, after which it seemingly disappeared.

Looking more like a Colonel Stevens railway contraption, the KCR experimented with various railbuses.

 

The aforementioned Kitson locos, I have tried in vain to find a suitable UK loco to use as a base for these.

 

And finally, what swept all of this away. Designed in America and built in Australia. Dieselisation came swiftly but even when the railway switched to diesel it would not be long before the massive growth and modernisation of Hong Kong resulted in the MTR system and an important switch to light rail.

[EddieB]

Kitson built so many locos for export - including numerous 4-6-0s for India, Ceylon, Argentina and Queensland - that I wouldn't necessarily expect the KCR 4-6-0s (built 1930) to bear resemblance to a British prototype.  Likewise any comparison with the Dutch 3700 series (which had its origins with Beyer Peacock) is probably biased on behalf of the Dutch contingent!

 

Talking of 4-6-0s, both the French (Ouest) and Belgians had locomotives similar to the Great Western "Castles".  Furthermore, many of that wheel arrangement ("ten wheelers" as the North Americans called them) had their roots in the good old Prussian P8, that likenesses exist both due to common heritage or by convergent evolution.

 

There were two of the RSH 2-6-0Ts on the KCR, which were acquired from the War Department in 1946.  (Originally WD nos 2000/1, built 1942).

 

Hudswell Clarke supplied two 0-6-0STs, ordered by the Crown Agents, and two two-foot gauge 0-4-0STs (for the Kowloon-Sham-Chun Tramway), all in 1907.  The railcars were 150hp petrol models built by Hall Scott (USA) in 1921 and rebuilt in 1936.  They look like the sort of thing that would end up getting wrecked on "Top Gear".  In addition the KCR also acquired 2-6-4Ts and 4-6-4Ts from Kitson, 0-4-0STs and 0-4-4Ts from Bagnalls.

[mpb56125]

Pictures from Bulgaria  at https://mark5812.smugmug.com/Trains-2015/Bulgaria-September-October/

Includes ex UK class 87's, 92's and Jarvis DTS tamper

 

Mark

https://mark5812.smugmug.com

[nomisd]

A few examples from North America, all in a preserved state between 2010 and 2012. The first four are at Exporail, the railway museum just outside Montreal. The first is not strictly Dorchester the Robert Stephenson built which was the first loco to work in Canada in 1836 but a copy built by CN for the centennial celebrations in 1936.

 

 

The next is another replica. Built by Kawasaki in 1970 it is a copy of an loco built by Kinmonds, Hutton & Steel of Dundee in 1849 for the Champlain and St Lawrence Railway. It seen here being used for demonstrating the use of a turntable.

 

 

Tucked away in a store shed were the following two locos, neither of which really need any explanation. The A4 wasn't in the best of shape.

 

 

 

Over the border into the US. The first is another first loco in the country and another Robert Stephenson loco. This one is in the  Smithsonian in Washington DC. John Bull was supplied to the Camden and Amboy in 1831 named Stevens. Its been preserved since 1885 when it was donated to the Smithsonian.

 

 

Yet another Stephenson built loco, this one an ex Cavan & Leitrim one Lady Edith preserved at the Pine Creek Railroad in New Jersey.

 

 

The last one is a fairly rare beast - a British built industrial loco supplied to the USA. A 2 ft 6in gauge loco, it was built by Clayton in 1979 and supplied to Leslie Salt in Newark, California. The site is now owned by Cargill and no longer uses its railway but the loco, along with two others and some wagons are preserved at the site.

 

[pete_mcfarlane]

I'm surprised that the C&L loco hasn't been repatriated back to Ireland.

[Blackthorn]

There is an RSH 0-6-0 at the La Grange railway museum in Kentucky USA. I have no idea of the details to its export but it can be seen in the museums photo gallery site here: http://www.lagrangerailroadmuseum.org/photo-gallery.html It looks as if they are restoring it (I hope) to working order. 

[EddieB]

There is an RSH 0-6-0 at the La Grange railway museum in Kentucky USA. I have no idea of the details to its export but it can be seen in the museums photo gallery site here: http://www.lagrangerailroadmuseum.org/photo-gallery.html It looks as if they are restoring it (I hope) to working order. 

It's RSH 7745 of 1952, originally Meaford Power Station No. 2 (Staffordshire), which was sold to the Boyne City Railroad (Michigan) in 1971 (via a dealer in Rochdale).  The Boyne City Railroad was a tourist operation that folded.in the late 'seventies (I have a flyer from it somewhere).  I think it was here that the loco acquired its nickname "Flying Duchess".  Anyway, when the railway folded, the stock was sold and - by a circuitous route the loco now finds itself in Kentucky.

Edited October 16, 2015 by EddieB

[Valentin]

It seems no one mentioned the nine locomotives built between 1868 and 1869 by Canada Works (designed by J. Ramsbottom) for the Bucharest (Filaret) - Giurgiu railway, in Romania, the line itself being designed and built by the British company J. T. Barkley - J. Staniforth.

 

The engines were numbered 1 to 9:

• Nos. 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9: 2-4-0 (for passenger trains)
• Nos. 1, 3, and 5 were 0-6-0 (for goods trains).

It is worth pointing out that B. G. (Bucuresti Giurgiu) Railway No. 8 "CĂLUGĂRENI" (from 1882 CFR No. 43 "CĂLUGĂRENI"), works no 233 / 1869 is the only survivor out of 300 built at Canada Works Birkenhead and she is preserved, in working order, in Romania by the Romanian Railways Museum (Muzeul Cailor Ferate Romane) in Bucharest. She is also the oldest preserved Romanian locomotive, stored at Mogoșoaia, not far from Bucharest.

 

Picture from the Romanian Railway Tourism Company:

 

 

And a YouTube video clip (from June 2014 - 75 years Anniversary of the Romanian Railway Museum.

 

https://youtu.be/NrVFE6YOSQ0

 

The information above appears in the Romanian History of the Rail Traction ("Istoricul Tractiunii Feroviare din Romania") book, vol. I, by Serban Lacriteanu and Ilie Popescu (ISBN 973-86011-3-4).

[EddieB]

Definitely worth a mention, Valentin.  A loco that is placed high up my "bucket list" (it regularly appears in magazine photos after public events in Romania have finished).

 

Canada Works were established by the engineers Peto, Brassey and Betts, ostensibly to supply locomotives for the Grand Trunk Railway of Canada (hence the name).  Once a suitable site had been located near Birkenhead, construction of the works was fairly rapid and locomotive deliveries commenced very soon afterwards.  The total production is not known - something like 244 locomotives have been identified, but there could have been as many as 300.  Of these, nearly 90 were exported to the railways of Europe (including eight which went to Finland and mentioned earlier in this thread).  Only the Romanian example is known to be preserved.

Edited December 30, 2015 by EddieB

[railsquid]

North British Locomotives and English Electric exported a number of electric locos to Japan in the 1920s: http://homepage3.nifty.com/EF57/r.museum/ED17.htm

[mpb56125]

Former UK 56115 has been in a serious accident in Hungary http://www.kisalfold.hu/kepek/baleset_nyulon_-_vonat_utkozott_kamionnal_-_foto_hbe/2050165/3147163/

May be they can use the parts for 56117 http://www.mark5812.smugmug.com/search/?n=mark5812&scope=node&scopeValue=7DmcJ&c=photos&q=650+003#q=659+003&i=0

 

Mark

http://www.mark5812.smugmug.com/

Edited November 28, 2016 by mpb56125

[EddieB]

Former UK 56115 has been in a serious accident in Hungary http://www.kisalfold.hu/kepek/baleset_nyulon_-_vonat_utkozott_kamionnal_-_foto_hbe/2050165/3147163/

May be they can use the parts for 56117 http://www.mark5812.smugmug.com/search/?n=mark5812&scope=node&scopeValue=7DmcJ&c=photos&q=650+003#q=659+003&i=0

 

Mark

http://www.mark5812.smugmug.com/

Looks really nasty, as the cab appears to have borne the brunt of the impact. Just hope the driver is ok.

 

Seems pretty clear that it hit a truck that failed to obey the Stop sign.

 

Do you know where and when it happened?  (The only sign visible seems to be "Vasutallomas" which means "station").

 

Edit: I see that the accident happened at Nyul, just south of Györ.  The driver is in a critical condition having severed an artery.  The truck driver appears unhurt, and had driven across the level crossing without stopping.

 

Update: Just seen news that the driver has died from his injuries and severe loss of blood.  RIP.

Edited November 29, 2016 by EddieB

[rodent279]

More here

 

http://www.victorianrailways.net/motive%20power/fdie/fdie.html

 

Technically more like a Class 11 (LMS design) since the Victorian locos had the 4ft wheels rather than the 4ft 6in of the 08/09.

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/sllyname/model_vr/VRdiesel-v1-partA.pdf.

 

Page 10 for plan.

 

There were also very similar machines sold in small numbers to Sweden :-

 

https://flic.kr/p/6ZCkV2

 

and 15 sold to Egypt:-

 

https://flic.kr/p/w86oMo

 

& some to Denmark, but I can't find any photos.

Edit:-found it! http://www.jernbanen.dk/motor_solo.php?s=9&lokid=21

The Danish machine was the former WD 70273, built Derby in 1945, taken into DSB stock as traktor no. 6 in 1954. It appears to have worked at Korsor, Helsingor & Copenhagen, being scrapped in 1974.

 

There's also these:-

 

https://flic.kr/p/sZHj3k

 

 

https://flic.kr/p/w86oMo

Edited February 11, 2017 by rodent279

[EddieB]

There were also very similar machines sold in small numbers to Sweden :-

 

Very small numbers, two in fact - both going into industrial service and (happily) both preserved.  In the same era, broadly similar machines were supplied to Malaya (as it was then) and Sudan, being of metre and 3'6" gauge, respectively.

 

All these shunters can trace their ancestry to early designs of the 1930s.  English Electric had gained a team of highly skilled diesel engineers from the aeronautical industry following the crash of the R-101 Airship at Beauvais, and from it developed their standard 'K' series of engines.  An early demonstrator was built by Hawthorn Leslie in 1934 and fitted with an EE engine rated at 300hp.  It was acquired by the LMS and became the fore-runner of a production series of ten locomotives built for that railway.

 

Almost contemporaneously, very similar 3'6" gauge versions of those LMS locomotives were built by Hawthorn Leslie and supplied to Sudan Government Railways and South Africa.  Here is a picture of one of three Hawthorn Leslie locomotives (HL 3867/1936) that were supplied to New Consolidated Goldfields Ltd. (Vogelstruisbult Gold).  After passing through the ownership of Zincor (Zinc Corporation), this locomotive was set aside for preservation at the museum being established by SANRASM, Millsite (Krugersdorp), where the picture was taken.  Unlike the many steam locomotives that fell victim to organised scrap metal thieves there, the diesels survived the onslaught and this locomotive was removed to the Reefsteamers depot at Germiston in 2014.  For those that care to make comparison, the similarity to the early LMS diesel-electrics will be apparent and its historical value enhanced since none of those locomotives survive.

 

[doctor quinn]

There were also very similar machines sold in small numbers to Sweden :-

 

https://flic.kr/p/6ZCkV2

 

and 15 sold to Egypt:-

 

https://flic.kr/p/w86oMo

 

& some to Denmark, but I can't find any photos.

Edit:-found it! http://www.jernbanen.dk/motor_solo.php?s=9&lokid=21

The Danish machine was the former WD 70273, built Derby in 1945, taken into DSB stock as traktor no. 6 in 1954. It appears to have worked at Korsor, Helsingor & Copenhagen, being scrapped in 1974.

]

I hadn't realised that DSB traktor 6 was ex War Deprtment.

 

A later British shunted in Denmark was the Sentinel owed by Copenhagen Free Port http://www.railorama.dk/fotos/970,39

 

There was also at least one Ruston & Hornsby shunted supplied to a peat railway

 

Nick

[EddieB]

I hadn't realised that DSB traktor 6 was ex War Deprtment.

 

A later British shunted in Denmark was the Sentinel owed by Copenhagen Free Port http://www.railorama.dk/fotos/970,39

 

There was also at least one Ruston & Hornsby shunted supplied to a peat railway

 

Nick

Two 0-4-0DM of type 416 were built by Fowler for the Fjerritslev-Frederikshan Jernbane in 1952.  In 1969, one went to the Hjørring Privatbaner (no. 41), the other to the Lollandsbanen (M14).  Unlike the ten locomotives of the same type built for domestic market, the Danish examples had a 100hp Leyland engine.

[Londontram]

I don't know if any one has mentioned it but there was the Caledonian Railway Dunalastair 2 that was built for I believe the Belgium state railway and classed as there class 17

 

So impressed with there performance the Belgium railways went on to build another 424 modified versions of there own one of which is preserved

[rodent279]

Very small numbers, two in fact - both going into industrial service and (happily) both preserved.  In the same era, broadly similar machines were supplied to Malaya (as it was then) and Sudan, being of metre and 3'6" gauge, respectively.

 

All these shunters can trace their ancestry to early designs of the 1930s.  English Electric had gained a team of highly skilled diesel engineers from the aeronautical industry following the crash of the R-101 Airship at Beauvais, and from it developed their standard 'K' series of engines.  An early demonstrator was built by Hawthorn Leslie in 1934 and fitted with an EE engine rated at 300hp.  It was acquired by the LMS and became the fore-runner of a production series of ten locomotives built for that railway.

 

Almost contemporaneously, very similar 3'6" gauge versions of those LMS locomotives were built by Hawthorn Leslie and supplied to Sudan Government Railways and South Africa.  Here is a picture of one of three Hawthorn Leslie locomotives (HL 3867/1936) that were supplied to New Consolidated Goldfields Ltd. (Vogelstruisbult Gold).  After passing through the ownership of Zincor (Zinc Corporation), this locomotive was set aside for preservation at the museum being established by SANRASM, Millsite (Krugersdorp), where the picture was taken.  Unlike the many steam locomotives that fell victim to organised scrap metal thieves there, the diesels survived the onslaught and this locomotive was removed to the Reefsteamers depot at Germiston in 2014.  For those that care to make comparison, the similarity to the early LMS diesel-electrics will be apparent and its historical value enhanced since none of those locomotives survive.

 

K1C95028b.jpg

Fascinating, I knew nothing of the South African & Sudanese connections.

 

There seems to be very little information online about the Egyptian "08's". I wonder if any survive?

 

cheers N

[EddieB]

I don't know if any one has mentioned it but there was the Caledonian Railway Dunalastair 2 that was built for I believe the Belgium state railway and classed as there class 17

 

So impressed with there performance the Belgium railways went on to build another 424 modified versions of there own one of which is preserved

Some mention made in posts #128 and #129 further up the thread.  It may comes as a surprise that around 350 steam locomotives were exported to Belgium (including purpose-built and second-hand purchases, but not those used by the ROD and returned to Britain after WWI).  There were also a few diesels too I think I may have posted this Hudswell Clarke loco, formerly of the Port of Bristol Authority and bought by George & Cie., Charleroi.

 

.

[uax6]

In 1909 the L'Etat took over the Ouest Co of France, and discovered that it was very short of locos. It needed a class of locos for medium power for immeadiate delivery. North British were at the time building two 4-6-0 Highland Railway Castles, and secured an order for 50 of them. The order came in in Jan '11, and the first five were at the docks on the 13th April, with the rest following at a rate of five a week. All were at work by the summer of 11.

 

They were slightly wider than the HR engines, and had a large air pump infront of the cab, and a taller chimney and weighed 3 tons more. The tenders (bogie) had solid coal rails. All were plain black. Running numbers were 230.321 to 370.

 

They worked in Upper Normandy but some worked between Paris and Mantes. Most of the work for them had gone by 1930, 34 were left in '34, and 20 in '36, and all had gone in '38, but one or two were still intact when seen by the BEF in '39-40. Three were repaired and used to run workmans trains around Evreux in '41, gaining SNCF numbers 230D323, 341 and 365.

 

Andy G

 

Edit: http://roland.arzul.pagesperso-orange.fr/materiel/traction/230.htm 4th class down.

Edited February 19, 2017 by uax6

[Marshall5]

Very small numbers, two in fact - both going into industrial service and (happily) both preserved.  In the same era, broadly similar machines were supplied to Malaya (as it was then) and Sudan, being of metre and 3'6" gauge, respectively.

 

All these shunters can trace their ancestry to early designs of the 1930s.  English Electric had gained a team of highly skilled diesel engineers from the aeronautical industry following the crash of the R-101 Airship at Beauvais, and from it developed their standard 'K' series of engines.  An early demonstrator was built by Hawthorn Leslie in 1934 and fitted with an EE engine rated at 300hp.  It was acquired by the LMS and became the fore-runner of a production series of ten locomotives built for that railway.

 

Almost contemporaneously, very similar 3'6" gauge versions of those LMS locomotives were built by Hawthorn Leslie and supplied to Sudan Government Railways and South Africa.

In 1982 I was one of a small group from TEFS who toured Sudan by train.  At Atbara works we saw one of the Hawthorn Leslie shunters Eddie mentioned.  SGR 402 was one of a pair built in 1936 (401 was the other) and followed on from # 400 which was supplied by Harland and Wolff the previous year.  The photo shows it in the line of locos retained for the 'Museum' and I don't know if it survived.  At least one of the locos, a 4-4-0T also, then, in the line up is was derelict in Khartoum in 2010.

I've still to scan my slides but I have scanned a few prints of other British built locos out there and can post them if they are of interest.

Cheers,

Ray.

[Marshall5]

Here's a few more pics of British built locos in the Sudan. Despite much of the railway infrastructure being 'on it's last legs' they were still overhauling steam locos mainly the North British built 310 class 2-8-2's and 220 class Pacifics.  When I enquired about this, when so many quite modern diesels were left semi-derelict, I was told that the Gov't had no money for spares and they could rebuild the steam locos with the equipment they had.

In the last post I mentioned the 'museum' line up at Atbara works and the photo below shows 4-4-0T No 4 built in 1885 and variously described as a Hunslet or a Kitson.

 

SGR 0-6-0DE # 405 (built by?) and Mikado #317 built by North British in 1952 at Atbara works in Dec 1982.                                       

 

Another 310 class #316 in steam at Sennar Jc.  A year or so later several of these Mikados were selected for rebuilding to help transport relief supplies to the drought stricken areas. The boilers were shipped to Wales for overhaul by Hugh Phillips and fitted with Lempor exhausts and other improvements.

 

The 220 class Pacifics were built by NBL in 1942 for the War Department to an earlier SGR design and shipped to Sudan. Similar locos went to Australia. This 4-6-2, #254wasvseen shunting at Ed Demazeen near the Ethiopian border.

 

Hope they are of interest.

Ray.