dibber25 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 It wasn't the press meeting that was derided , just the ridiculous press embargo after, which was usually broken, often by Model Rail! Much better releasing information directly to the market, avoids these shenanigans. Simon Kohler did state that they were moving to 3 pole motors . I think at the time they were quoted as £20 cheaper. If I'm correct it was part of the"design clever" initiative which has since been reversed by Hornby. Indeed the now arriving J15 has a 5 pole motor . Unfortunately the Hall , although also only arriving now, was announced a year earlier and designed in the "design clever"era which is why it has moulded smoke box darts . Still you would have thought that as the new 42xx has separate darts , Hornby could have made the effort with the Hall. I'm waiting to see the model before committing. But for me Im more interested in whether Hornby have an acceptable colour of BR green. The catalogue illustrations look a bit dull to me reminiscent of the waxy green finish of the late 70s. If I'm forking out an extra £40 I want to know it's not in need of a repaint, otherwise Olton Hall will do just as well ONCE by Model Rail and before that by Rail Express IIRC. The embargo wasn't ridiculous, but it WAS impractical. It was designed to give everyone the chance to announce the news at the same time but in reality it never worked in the way that was intended. I haven't seen a J15 yet and I'll be interested to see the mechanism. Possibly, there's not space for a 3-pole and flywheel. For the majority of models - particularly those with their 'feet' in the Railroad range, I would think moulded smokebox door handles are inevitable. The failure rate - unsaleable models - due to broken smokebox door handles during packing and handling - would add further to the price. I suspect that the crazy disparity between on the one hand, Hornby's efforts to keep models affordable, and on the other hand some modellers complaints about models still being 'over-priced', must lead to some hair-tearing in both Margate and China. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2015 And to prove Chris's point about broken smokebox handles,much as I love my new J15,its Achillees' heel is exactly that. 30 minutes search with an LED torch finally recovered that minute part. It was an experience very reassuring for my eyesight but not one I'd care to repeat too often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 It's curious that a 3 pole motor is apparently £20 cheaper........ Mashima motors are less than that. Hmmm........ negative pricing here? edit for fat finger syndrome Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2015 I suspect that the crazy disparity between on the one hand, Hornby's efforts to keep models affordable, and on the other hand some modellers complaints about models still being 'over-priced', must lead to some hair-tearing in both Margate and China. CHRIS LEIGH I think this sums up the predicament facing manufacturers. Part of their customer base is whinging about the price of new models, another part wants ever more fine, prototype specific detail and high end mechanisms and a large part of the customer base which is somewhere in between in wanting good models but also being mindful of costs. Hornby tried design clever and it was a disaster for them (at least judging from forum comments and their u-turn) so I think now us customers have to accept that Hornby tried to reduce price inflation and found it was not what their customers wanted hence we accept what that means for pricing. The sad thing to me at least is that Hornby have demonstrated that it is possible to build lower spec models which are acceptable to many modellers at prices which are very attractive. If design clever had been well implemented (as it was on the 2-BIL) then I believe the concept could have worked. However that is water under the bridge. As I posted a few posts earlier I do hope that Hornby do not abandon their new Railroad projects as I think they fill a valuable niche. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I do hope that Hornby do not abandon their new Railroad projects as I think they fill a valuable niche. I don't see why they would. There's nothing wrong with the Railroad Range idea. They just need to make sure it is self-evidently different from their high-spec range - more than a nice coat of paint. "Design clever" (ie: making manufacturing short cuts in the high-spec range) was a bad idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I dont know what it would cost Hornby to produce a smokebox dart in metal instead of plastic, but it would at least fit all models. Also there would be a market for the dart as an accessory for those who want to replace the plastic dart. Moulded darts entail some careful carving to remove them completely before fitting a new one. I happen to have a good few Britrail darts. They are to no particular prototype design but they do do the job nicely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2015 I dont know what it would cost Hornby to produce a smokebox dart in metal instead of plastic, but it would at least fit all models. Also there would be a market for the dart as an accessory for those who want to replace the plastic dart. Moulded darts entail some careful carving to remove them completely before fitting a new one. I happen to have a good few Britrail darts. They are to no particular prototype design but they do do the job nicely. There are a number about on the 'after parts' market although in the past couple of years I have still not succeeded in finding any of the nice turned brass ones which were around about 20 years ago - probably too expensive to manufacture nowadays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 There are a number about on the 'after parts' market although in the past couple of years I have still not succeeded in finding any of the nice turned brass ones which were around about 20 years ago - probably too expensive to manufacture nowadays. I agree. A chap in Sheffield used to have some very neat brass turnings produced. These included whistles of quite a variety and smokebox darts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 The last of these that I bought were from Mainly Trains but I don't think Dave lists them any more. I appreciate the point made by Ian Hargrave. Believe me, nothing causes quite as much panic as knocking the smokebox door handle off a review sample in the gloom of a photographic studio just before the photographer has taken the lead shot for a review! Searching the floor may well be a waste of time, and a repair in Photoshop may be the easiest answer! CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted February 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2015 I bought a nice set of brass smokebox door handles from Branchlines at Warley last autumn. Not sure whether they'd suit a GW engine - I think they may have originated with the V2 detailing kit they produced, and include the disc that's attached to the smokebox door - but may be worth investigating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted February 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2015 This may be help to those searching for smoke box darts.. Eileen's Emporium: https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=eny_fly_default.tpl&product_id=3514&category_id=71&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted February 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2015 ONCE by Model Rail and before that by Rail Express IIRC. The embargo wasn't ridiculous, but it WAS impractical. It was designed to give everyone the chance to announce the news at the same time but in reality it never worked in the way that was intended. I haven't seen a J15 yet and I'll be interested to see the mechanism. Possibly, there's not space for a 3-pole and flywheel. For the majority of models - particularly those with their 'feet' in the Railroad range, I would think moulded smokebox door handles are inevitable. The failure rate - unsaleable models - due to broken smokebox door handles during packing and handling - would add further to the price. I suspect that the crazy disparity between on the one hand, Hornby's efforts to keep models affordable, and on the other hand some modellers complaints about models still being 'over-priced', must lead to some hair-tearing in both Margate and China. CHRIS LEIGH In fact there's two fly wheels and a 5 pole motor. I think there's a pic on the J15 thread on here. As to the embargo , it was more than one Christmas, not your fault , but I remember subscription copies turning up in advance of Christmas at least twice. Leading to the situation where enthusiasts knew but could not discuss it on here! Rail Enthusiast did eventually toe the line, but it was never certain that they didn't have permission to publish anyway. Really Hornby do it much better these days,without all this fuss, and , of course, Bachmann always did it efficiently with minimum of hassle Still no sign of Rood Ashton Hall . Keeping an eye out to see finish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2015 Those wishing to cast their eyes on an image of 4965 should tune in to Olivia's Trains ( sic! ) website where all will be revealed.I post this with tongue firmly in my cheek....honest. They have it in stock. Looks ok to me.....I mean the Hall. Useful for reference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted February 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2015 Thanks Ian. Going to have to see one in the flesh. Can't make up my mind on shade of green. It looks a bit waxy to me wasn't overly impressed with the review of the GWR one in Hornby Mag. Thought the green was too dull and bland. The BR lining should help but as I said jury is out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I was very taken with the Railroad 'Hall' and so have been looking into it in more detail. Detailing it as I did with the Railroad Duke would be interesting but my eyes settled on the driving wheels this afternoon, or should I say the wheel bosses. They are very large and would be more at home on an LNER loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2015 Thanks Ian. Going to have to see one in the flesh. Can't make up my mind on shade of green A couple of things on the matter of the paint job.Colour is a subjective issue and digitally transmitted images via the web may or may not present you with satisfactory "evidence" which meets your criteria....whatever that might be.Don't forget this is a commercially produced model and what you might like it to be is down to you.For instance,toning the finish down with subtle light weathering will vastly improve authenticity. It is now half a century since the prototype graced the W.R.Documentary evidence,given the quality of photographic rendering of that era,is questionable.Frankly,the only "evidence" I trust is my own memory of the whole class of Halls.....49XX through to 69XX from circa 1950 to 1965 in BR black initially and then lined green.In other words,I saw more of them then most,if not all members of this forum. Given that,all I can say is that it looks fine to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 In fact there's two fly wheels and a 5 pole motor. I think there's a pic on the J15 thread on here. As to the embargo , it was more than one Christmas, not your fault , but I remember subscription copies turning up in advance of Christmas at least twice. Leading to the situation where enthusiasts knew but could not discuss it on here! Rail Enthusiast did eventually toe the line, but it was never certain that they didn't have permission to publish anyway. Really Hornby do it much better these days,without all this fuss, and , of course, Bachmann always did it efficiently with minimum of hassle Still no sign of Rood Ashton Hall . Keeping an eye out to see finish. The embargo thing really does depend on which side of the fence you're on. Leaving aside printers doing things early so they can have a Christmas holiday, an embargo is easy to apply and easy for Editors to adhere to. Readers don't see or hear what goes on behind the scenes when trying to comply with the systems imposed by some manufacturers, which can actually place the printed media at a huge and often unnecessary disadvantage. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 A couple of things on the matter of the paint job.Colour is a subjective issue and digitally transmitted images via the web may or may not present you with satisfactory "evidence" which meets your criteria....whatever that might be.Don't forget this is a commercially produced model and what you might like it to be is down to you.For instance,toning the finish down with subtle light weathering will vastly improve authenticity. It is now half a century since the prototype graced the W.R.Documentary evidence,given the quality of photographic rendering of that era,is questionable.Frankly,the only "evidence" I trust is my own memory of the whole class of Halls.....49XX through to 69XX from circa 1950 to 1965 in BR black initially and then lined green.In other words,I saw more of them then most,if not all members of this forum. Given that,all I can say is that it looks fine to me. As I have said a few times, we do not need to rely on memory. Precision model railway paints has been around a very long time and some of my tinlets were obtained when Methuselah was still teething... There is little to chose between some colours, for example: P11 GWR 1945 loco green and P100 BR pre-1954 loco green, and the difference is so minimal as to be a waste of effort. Both are a lot darker than the shade Hornby uses. Personally I would plump for P11 for representing the oily-rag wiped down paintwork on a green loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2015 Point taken from the master craftsman.For those of you,like me,seeking the at the moment elusive Rood Ashton Hall..R 3205,The Track Shack have them in stock at a good price which includes first class postage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 seeking the at the moment elusive Rood Ashton Hall..R 3205 Just picked one up from Peter's Spares. Outstanding runner and happy with 8 heavy kit built coaches. Me thinks a late night, retro fitting from BR to 1930's Great Western. I shouldn't have bought it really as I have two small tender 4901 on order but 'resistance is futile'. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2015 Just picked one up from Peter's Spares. Outstanding runner and happy with 8 heavy kit built coaches. Me thinks a late night, retro fitting from BR to 1930's Great Western. I shouldn't have bought it really as I have two small tender 4901 on order but 'resistance is futile'. Mike Wiltshire Thanks for that update on performance which seems to be as I suspected it might be.All very encouraging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted February 18, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2015 Will have a look to see of anybody has got them at Model Rail Scotland over weekend, maybe Cheltenham Model Centre will have them in stock. If not might place order on Hereford ad they test locos before despatch Thanks for updates Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leavesontheline Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Hornby were showing "Hurry - Only 4 Left" on their website yesterday for R3205. Today though their stocks seem to have been replenished! Maybe they will get some more out to retailers now too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 There seem to be quite a few new models arriving, Hattons have R3229 BR Star 'British Monarch' in stock. Hornby.com have that as well as R2905 'Rood Ashton Hall' as well as all the J15s and now R3305 weathered K1 62059. But a silly question from me; what is the difference between the quality of the RR R3170 GWR 4901 'Adderley Hall' and main range R2905 'Rood Ashton Hall'? ...apart from packaging and name-plates? The Hornby catalogue pics of the RR GWR version look excellent, glazed cab, brake rodding etc., and I'm presuming it will have the crosshead pump just like Rood Ashton. In any event I bought a weathered K1 and an LNER J15, the latter will look so charming with Gresley suburbans, and both are fine RTR models. I thought I had been prudent buying 'just' a WW1 Star class trainpack, but I had to buy both to qualify for free shipping, what an easy mark I am! It's a bit off the subject but I bought a TMC-weathered Bachmann D11/2 LNER 6385 'Luckie Mucklebackit' which looks very nice, and the LNER J15 will suit my 'period' if not my location. I have pre-ordered a weathered D16 and of course it's anybody's guess when that will arrive. I wonder if the Chinese New Year will affect things which are currently expected in April-June? Here is my pristine K1, edited pic. https://www.facebook.com/brsteamphotos/photos/pb.203786143120392.-2207520000.1424312594./408974965934841/?type=3&theater Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted February 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2015 The difference between 4901 and 4965 is also the finish. The differences are as follows Reduced tender and cabside lining Unpainted cab interior Etched nameplates Packaging Brake rigging included As far as I'm aware, they are the differences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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