RMweb Gold scottystitch Posted December 16, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2013 This is an N Gauge Code 55 plan. Each square is 12" by 12". It assumes that Perth Station developed differently and at a site further north of the city than it is at present. It forms a junction between the Inverness and Aberdeen lines from the right hand side. Aberdeen comes from the curve at lower right, Inverness from directly right, and through a partition wall. To the left (south) the double track heads for Glasgow & Edinburgh via a further junction off scene. The oval track at the left hand side represents an elongated helix connected to a storage yard under the main station board. Platforms 3 & 4 and 5 & 6 should be ten coach platforms, 1 & 2 should take eight coaches. 7 & 8 will take six coaches. There are two avoiding/freight holding lines at the top of the plan for freight, with access only to/from the Inverness route. An Aberdeen route freight/holding line runs between platforms 3 & 4. I'm in two minds about rationalising the platforms a bit and removing either 7 & 8 or 5 & 6. I'm not sure if it's all too cluttered. Every platform should be accessible from/to any approach track, although I still have to include a crossing on the left hand side twin track to allow access to/from the freight avoiding lines.Top right will be a distillers (Dewars) loading/unloading siding or two. The other sidings I haven't decided on yet. Possibly transfer sidings or DMU stabling. All points will be motorised and control will be DCC. The main station building will lead out onto platform 1. approach curves will be disguised with bridges at the left hand side. I'm undecided about the right hand side, although the Inverness line will most likely be tunnelled. Ten coach trains will be restricted to long distance traffic to/from London, mostly via the Waverley route and behind Type 4 diesels, including a sleeper service. More local/short distance passenger trains will be predominantly diesel hauled (Type 2s), although the Glasgow/Aberdeen 3hr expresses will be modelled with A4, A2 and A1 Pacifics (until someone produces a RTR class 21/29.) Freight trains will be a mix of Steam and diesel (WD 2-8-0, Princess Coronation, Black 5, B1 Type 4 Diesels, Type 2 Diesels, etc.) Any terminating trains will be removed by a station pilot back down to the storage yard and vice versa. Comments regarding the track plan requested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted December 16, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2013 Regaining the down line from the yard is currently very difficult. I would say that you want to either add or move a crossover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold scottystitch Posted December 17, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2013 Regaining the down line from the yard is currently very difficult. I would say that you want to either add or move a crossover. You're quite right. And I've just seen that the same applies to platforms 5 & 6. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bri.s Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Sounds an intresting plan with a lot of operational potential Will be watching with interest Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanStock Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Looks very interesting. My own model is based just north of Perth but in late 1970's. I've used inspiration from the real station, plus also Dundee and elsewhere. One thing that strikes me about your plan is that I suspect the bay platforms would face south to accommodate locals from Glasgow and Edinburgh, rather than north towards Inverness...assuming you don't have room for bays at both ends as per the real station. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold scottystitch Posted January 10, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2014 Looks very interesting. My own model is based just north of Perth but in late 1970's. I've used inspiration from the real station, plus also Dundee and elsewhere. One thing that strikes me about your plan is that I suspect the bay platforms would face south to accommodate locals from Glasgow and Edinburgh, rather than north towards Inverness...assuming you don't have room for bays at both ends as per the real station.Hi Ian, and thanks for the reply. In fact, it's the other way around.Glasgow/Edinburgh is on the left, Inverness/Aberdeen to the right. However I've since altered the plan, splitting platforms one and two into two sets of bays, and removing the original bays. I'll post the revision soon. Incidentally, at the real Perth station, the northern bays have been filled in, probably at around the time the passenger traffic from the Aberdeen line ceased, and so the only bays left are south facing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanStock Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Hi Ian, and thanks for the reply. In fact, it's the other way around.Glasgow/Edinburgh is on the left, Inverness/Aberdeen to the right. However I've since altered the plan, splitting platforms one and two into two sets of bays, and removing the original bays. I'll post the revision soon. Incidentally, at the real Perth station, the northern bays have been filled in, probably at around the time the passenger traffic from the Aberdeen line ceased, and so the only bays left are south facing. [/quote Hi Scotty, this will probably be irrelevant if you've changed things anyway, but I realised G/E are on the left - which is why I thought platforms 7-8 would face the other end - as is the case at 'real' Perth, like you say... Your plan for 1/2 would of course work fine, though one feature of a number of Scottish stations was the bays are set into an island platform, which is a feature I really like. Think not only Perth but also Dundee, Stirling and (formerly) Leuchars. You could even say Waverley too. It's something a little different from the normal 'bays at the side' arrangement, and from an operational point of view, it creates far fewer conflicting moves as terminating trains don't have to cross through lines to reach the bays. Grab a glance of my 'Stanley' if you haven't already done so...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold scottystitch Posted January 20, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2014 Hi Ian, and thanks for the reply. In fact, it's the other way around.Glasgow/Edinburgh is on the left, Inverness/Aberdeen to the right. However I've since altered the plan, splitting platforms one and two into two sets of bays, and removing the original bays. I'll post the revision soon. Incidentally, at the real Perth station, the northern bays have been filled in, probably at around the time the passenger traffic from the Aberdeen line ceased, and so the only bays left are south facing. [/quote Hi Scotty, this will probably be irrelevant if you've changed things anyway, but I realised G/E are on the left - which is why I thought platforms 7-8 would face the other end - as is the case at 'real' Perth, like you say... Your plan for 1/2 would of course work fine, though one feature of a number of Scottish stations was the bays are set into an island platform, which is a feature I really like. Think not only Perth but also Dundee, Stirling and (formerly) Leuchars. You could even say Waverley too. It's something a little different from the normal 'bays at the side' arrangement, and from an operational point of view, it creates far fewer conflicting moves as terminating trains don't have to cross through lines to reach the bays. Grab a glance of my 'Stanley' if you haven't already done so...! Hi Ian. I've revisited this following your suggestion. What do you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 What happened to the Dundee line? A fascinating station in steam days where Crewe based Duchesses and Princesses brought in Sleepers for the north and handed over to pairs of Black fives, and Perth based Standard Fives worked the Aberdeen - Glasgow trains, changing engines southbound I believe standard five for standard five hugely interesting engine workings which ended with highland steam in 1962 and came back again with the A4s in 65 on the Aberdeens, Lord Faringdon etc, I spent many happy hours there diesel spotting in the late 80s when 47s went Inverness Perth Edinburgh Aberdeen Inverness and vice versa on cyclic diagrams. The wierd hole in the wall carriage sidings and the platform cut in half by a shunting neck are weird features no one would believe if you modelled them, nor would anyone believe the strange way the Dundee line curved away. Incidentally Caley 123 the single wheeler lived out her last days in revenue service between Perth and Dundee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanStock Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Hi Ian. I've revisited this following your suggestion. What do you think? Hi Scotty, sorry for late reply - haven't been around for a while. I think that looks a better bet with regard to the southern end of the layout. Not quite sure about the single lead to platforms 1 and 2 - but hey, one could go on quibbling for ever... I'm kind of wondering whether 1 and 4 wouldn't be the main through platforms? Or would it be 1 and 9? There again, maybe the original steam layout would have divided the Inverness and Aberdeen lines south of the station, with 9 and 4 for Inverness and 1 and 3 for Aberdeen... Who knows? ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold scottystitch Posted February 18, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2014 Hi Scotty, sorry for late reply - haven't been around for a while. I think that looks a better bet with regard to the southern end of the layout. Not quite sure about the single lead to platforms 1 and 2 - but hey, one could go on quibbling for ever... I'm kind of wondering whether 1 and 4 wouldn't be the main through platforms? Or would it be 1 and 9? There again, maybe the original steam layout would have divided the Inverness and Aberdeen lines south of the station, with 9 and 4 for Inverness and 1 and 3 for Aberdeen... Who knows? ;-) Hi Ian, no problem. Yes I'm more comfortable with the look now, having bay platforms facing both north and south, it certainly gives a better flavour of the real Perth. I agree with regards to the single line entry to platforms 1 and 2, but I've not found a solution that allows double line entry that a) Fits and b) I'm happy with. The alternative is to remove them both. I'll no doubt decide finally when the time comes to lay the track. I have however reworked the entry into 5 & 6 and 7 & 8 into double line rather than single. Revised track plan later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold scottystitch Posted May 31, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 31, 2016 A few years down the line, and following a number of trials and tribulations, the layout is back in the planning stage. I now have more room, 18ft by 9ft, and by a happy coincidence this length is more or less enough to accommodate Perth General (as it is properly known) almost to scale with minimal compression. For reasons of arrangement, the Dundee platforms have sadly not been included. Other than that, I think the plan below is a good representation of Perth Station. I haven't scaled out the platform widths, but the two main through platforms should as near as dammit to scale length.The northern approach (right hand) looks pretty good, prototypically speaking as does the southern end. That said, this is really just a schematic on anyrail, the nitty gritty and freezing of the trackwork will begin in earnest when the boards are built. The scenic breaks will be the road bridges at either end of the station. The idea is to run prototypical trains, within the realms of what is available and the time period is 1962-1964 (64 being an enforced cut-off as I want to run one or two Princess Coronations.) I have a timetable for 1962 and this will form the basis of a schedule, in sequence form, rather than true timetabling. The only Rule 1 concessions (so far) are a class 47 (not running in scotland until 66 I believe) and the Midland Pullman. There will be a predomination of Class 26/27s and hopefully black 5s. By this time the Highland Mainline to Inverness was devoid of steam. Anyway, thoughts, comments, criticisms and questions all gratefully received as long as they are given in a constructive manner..... Train control will be DCC via NCE. Point actuation will be by Cobalts, but not digitally controlled. I hope to use DGs for remote electromagnetic uncoupling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMay Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Have you considered shortening the platforms a little bit? I realise you want scale-length trains but it looks to me like you've hugely compressed the station approaches but not compressed the platform lengths, and that seems a little out of balance. I think losing a foot or so of platform would help balance it out a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold scottystitch Posted June 1, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 1, 2016 Have you considered shortening the platforms a little bit? I realise you want scale-length trains but it looks to me like you've hugely compressed the station approaches but not compressed the platform lengths, and that seems a little out of balance. I think losing a foot or so of platform would help balance it out a bit. Hi Tony, In actual fact, there isn't much compression at all, certainly not at the southern end (LHS). Perhaps a little at the Northern end, but not much really. The track work is reasonably accurate for the time scale, within the restrictions of code 55 geometry. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.3939682,-3.4407612,485m/data=!3m1!1e3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 It looks impressive but have you thought about actually operating this monster? I operate a 20 odd foot long 00 through station and the best viewing points are from outside through the windows at the end of the shed or from a cam corder set up in a corner. The middle is sort of a dead area and much of the interest comes from shunting at the station throat and watching trains accelerate away from the station around a 180 degree curve. I suppose you could stretch the period to include the LNER Pacifics on the Glasgow - Aberdeen trains. For many years they were run by Perth Std 5s but had a downgrade to diesels then back to steam for the end of the A4s etc. I think Lord Faringdon was still on them in 1966 I often wondered about modelling the station throat of somewhere like Carlisle Citadel or York with the station canopy being the scenic break and the station merging into the fiddle yard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold scottystitch Posted June 27, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 27, 2016 Hi David. Indeed, a lot of thought has gone into the operation. The layout will be run closely in accordance with the 1962 summer timetable (with the exception of the Glasgow-Dundee traffic, which will be removed), with authentic (wherever possible) coaching marshalling, courtesy of the 1963 marshalling document for the region. 1962-64 already encompasses the A2, A3 and A4 operations to Aberdeen (the only missing link is the NBL Type 2s). 1964 is the cut-off due to that being the year the Coronation Pacifics were withdrawn. While the timetable will be closely adhered to, it won't be run around the clock face, merely as a sequence of events. Platforms 2 and 7 are split and can accommodate two trains each simultaneously. There is also plenty shunting potential around the carriage shed and motorail bays. Locomotives will be changed as per the prototype, Perth being a major shed for the region. By this time, the bay platforms had their crossovers removed and so trapped locomotives will need to be released and so I think there is plenty of action to keep me amused (I am for 99% of the time a lone operator). There is provision for camera set-ups overlooking both road bridges. I appreciate what you are saying re the approach road...erm, approach, but I have some personal reasons for wanting to try and replicate the station in it's entirety, so I am going to give it a go. The fiddle yards will be permanent, but I am quite prepared to do an Orange Juice with the main scenic area, and rip it up and start again if it doesn't work out, but I have to try. Bridge of Dun appeals to me as well, so that is a useful plan B. Thanks for your input. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold scottystitch Posted June 27, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 27, 2016 As an example of what I was talking about above, about timetabling, etc, this is an extract from a spreadsheet I have put together. It is still a work in progress, but the first 20 movements of the day look like this at present: 30 Arrival Glasgow 23:00 Inverness PMV BG SK SK SK CK SLSTP SLSF CK CHANGE ENGINE IN INVERNESS FIDDLE YARD 31 Arrival London Euston 13:30 Perth PL1 BFK RF SO SK BFK BSK SK CK BSK BG BG 36 Arrival Edinburgh W 22:55 Perth PE7 PMV BG BSK CK SO BSK 36 Arrival Kinross 00:06 Perth 175 DMU 40 Departure Glasgow 23:00 Inverness PMV BG SK SK SK CK SLSTP SLSF CK 57 Departure Perth Aberdeen 03:20 420 Arrival Inverness 23:20 Glasgow BS 06:25 CK SLCT SLCT CK SK SK SK BG PMV 433 Departure Inverness 23:20 Glasgow BS 06:25 CK SLCT SLCT CK SK SK SK BG PMV 437 Arrival London Euston 19:10 Inverness 08:40 The Royal Highlander Sleeper BG BSK CK SLF SLSTP SLF SLF SLSTP CK BSK BG BG BG 452 Departure London Euston 19:10 Inverness 08:40 The Royal Highlander Sleeper CHANGE ENGINE INVERNESS RU BSK CK SLF SLSTP SLF SLF SLSTP CK BSK BG BG BG 545 Departure Perth Struan 08:09 BCK CK SK BSK CCT 549 Arrival London Holloway 21:20 Perth 102 Sleeper & Car Carrier BSO SLSTP SLSTP SLSTP SLSTP SLSTP TCV TCV TCV TCV TCV TCV 608 Arrival Glasgow BS 04:00 Aberdeen 07:56 SK BSK SK SK RU FK BSK 618 Departure Glasgow BS 04:00 Aberdeen 07:56 SK BSK SK SK RU FK BSK 625 Departure Perth Edinburgh W 08:18 CCT BSK CK BSK SK SK SK Stanier 740 Arrival Dundee Tay Bridge 07:00 Perth 748 Arrival Blair Athol 06:35 Perth DMU 2-Car (Preferably 3-Car) 820 Departure Perth Edinburgh W 09:47 DMU 2 Car 832 Arrival Aberdeen 06:20 Perth BSK CK BG BGZ(STOVE R) And so the sequence will go something like this: 1 - Glasgow - Inverness arrives platform 7 2 - London Euston - Perth arrives platform 2 3 - Edinburgh - Perth arrives platform 5 4 - Kinross - Perth arrives platform 6 5 - Glasgow - Inverness departs platform 7 6 - Perth - Aberdeen departs platform 4 7 - Removal of coaching stock from platform 5 8 - Removal of coaching stock from platform 2 9 - Inverness - Glasgow arrives platform 2 10 - Inverness - Glasgow departs Platform 2 11 - London Euston- Inverness arrives platform 7 11A -Substitute RU for BG on London Euston - Inverness 12 - London Euston - Inverness departs platform 7 13 - Empty Struan stock delivered to platform 3 14 - Perth - Struan departs platform 3 15 - London Holloway - Perth arrives platform 2 16 - Empty Edinburgh stock delivered to platform 5 17 - Car carriers removed from London Holloway and shunted to motorail bays 18 - Glasgow - Aberdeen arrives platform 7 19 - Glasgow - Aberdeen departs platform 7 20 - Perth - Edinburgh departs platform 5 21 - Dundee Tay Bridge arrives platform 5 22 - Blair Athol - Perth arrives platform 4 23 - Perth - Edinburgh departs platform 6 24 - Aberdeen - Perth arrives platform 3 It gets busier, obviously, especially when freight is thrown in there as well, but the beauty of this arrangement is that it will take many many operating sessions to complete a full 'day' and so I am hoping the room for boredom will be lessened. It does mean rakes need to be tracked well, particularly the ECS. Whilst I have plenty of motive power, coaching stock needs to be built up and so during testing of the track, etc, I will use the Glasgow-Aberdeen trains, as I have the full rakes made up for these, and then gradually add other destination couples. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold scottystitch Posted July 11, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2016 A view from Glasgow Road bridge, looking south. Photograph owned by me but copyright is not. Photographer unknown. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold scottystitch Posted February 20, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2017 For those who are following and those who are interested, the project continuous to journey through a slow and at times painful progress. That said, light is at the end of the tunnel. The following is what will most likely be the final iteration of the plan, subject to one or two tweaks when track meets board. The dundee platforms are gone, again, a victim of the railway room having a dual purpose (recording studio being the main one). They would have necessitated too big an obstruction. Other than that and a slight compression of length, the track plan follows reasonably faithfully that of Perth, save for the omission of coach sidings at the very bottom of the plan which have been removed. I am still undecided about the scissors on platform 7 (the bottom-most platform in the diagram) By 62-64 I think it had gone, whilst the one at platform 4 remained (into the 70s I believe), but it helps with operation so much that I am tempted to retain it. Glasgow Road bridge on the extreme left has been manipulated a bit more than reality to sit at a slightly greater angle, but hopefully it will help disguise the curve. The inside track radius is around 33inches, so not so bad. The fiddle yard has been rationalised and will for the most part use cassettes as this saves space and cost in points. There are a number of round-round loops for non-passenger trains that can realistically travel in the same direction (since empties and loaded will always be travelling in the same respective direction - Empty coal, loaded Coal, Empty cars, Loaded cars). A number of sidings remain for trains that won't be lifted by cassette. Appropriate "virtual" engine sheds exist for locomotives to be added and removed from the layout by cassette. The red boards are lift out, the long one on the right for access to the garage pedestrian door and the square one for occasional access to the boiler. Currently I am getting quotes for removing the garage up and over door and installing wall/windows in its place. But soon work can begin on installing the support of the fiddle yard boards and then installing those boards and fiddle yard track. Whilst I do have some cobalts, I am tempted by the servo and megapoints controller so will need to build a test board to try them both out. EDIT: Comparative prices: Megapoints controllers (x7) plus Megapoints Frog Driver (x7) plus servos (x80) = £832 DCC Concepts Cobalts 12 pack (x7) = £1022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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