drduncan Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Does anyone have drawings of the Cornish Mineral Railways iron bodied tippler wagons that were absorbed into the GWR and seemed to do the bulk of china clay work before the production of the diag O13 wagon? Also any info on any end door wagons hired in/purchased/absorbed for china clay work by GWR woukd be most helpful - for example, GWR wagons by Tourret et al has an intriguing picture of a round ended wagon on one of the Fowey tipplers.... Thanks drduncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coline33 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Are you referring to the ex-CMR wagons taken over by GWR and renumbered into the 3xxxx series, please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted April 11, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 11, 2014 Not sure if either of these are referring to the correct wagons but you could try: Railway Modeller Jan 1965 page 7 - PO wagons that became GWR open china clay wagons or Railway Modeller June 1988 page 256 - GWR open china clay wagons I do not have immediate access to the magazines to check for you - but the first sounds promising from the description. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 Are you referring to the ex-CMR wagons taken over by GWR and renumbered into the 3xxxx series, please? Dear Coline33, Yes the ex-cmr iron bodied wagons are the very thing I'm interested in. D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Not sure if either of these are referring to the correct wagons but you could try:Railway Modeller Jan 1965 page 7 - PO wagons that became GWR open china clay wagonsorRailway Modeller June 1988 page 256 - GWR open china clay wagonsI do not have immediate access to the magazines to check for you - but the first sounds promising from the description.Hi Andy, thanks for the tip. I'll try to track them down and report back. I may even be able to post scans if we're lucky! D Edited April 13, 2014 by drduncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Does anyone have drawings of the Cornish Mineral Railways iron bodied tippler wagons that were absorbed into the GWR and seemed to do the bulk of china clay work before the production of the diag O13 wagon? Also any info on any end door wagons hired in/purchased/absorbed for china clay work by GWR woukd be most helpful - for example, GWR wagons by Tourret et al has an intriguing picture of a round ended wagon on one of the Fowey tipplers.... Thanks drduncan The round ended wagon photographed at Fowey was part of a batch hired from the Birmingham RC&WCo in November 1903 and given GWR numbers 01142 - 01191. They were marked "for use at Fowey". There were others for use at Par. I doubt they were all to the same design but having just seen the one example I can't be sure! They did have random B'ham fleet numbers. Details in 'Coal Trade Wagons' by Len Tavender (self published). I don't know of a drawing of the exCMR wagons though two of them were rebuilt as stone wagons and given diagram U1. Some details in the GWSG 'Pannier' no.33. The CMR wagons were built by the Swansea Wagon Co in the mid 1870s – details ought to be available somewhere in the GWR registers. D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coline33 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Dear Coline33, Yes the ex-cmr iron bodied wagons are the very thing I'm interested in. D I am currently going through the 'steam age' china clay wagons and depositing data of each type as I complete in a folder in both the Files and Photos sections of the China_Clay_Branchlines Yahoo Group. I am doing this in reverse order!!! BR diag.1/051, GWR rebuilds of ex-TVR wagons, GWR diagram O13 (94xxx series), GWR diagram O12, and GWR secondhand purchases (1906 and 1916) are covered with GWR 92xxx series in production and the BR folder to be updated. Behind the scenes work is continuing by the Group into the Private Owner Wagons (and their BR P-series renumbering). There are a small number of members interested in the ex-CMR wagons and study of the GWR Wagon Register entries will be made once NRM York have completed their work on the O13s. Then there is the hiring in both before the O13s were built and again post-WW1. So if you are interested you are very welcome to join the Group - the underlining in the Group's name are crucial to get the page - and add to the pressure to go further back into the past with these wagons. Regards, Colin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coline33 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 The round ended wagon photographed at Fowey was part of a batch hired from the Birmingham RC&WCo in November 1903 and given GWR numbers 01142 - 01191. They were marked "for use at Fowey". There were others for use at Par. I doubt they were all to the same design but having just seen the one example I can't be sure! They did have random B'ham fleet numbers. Details in 'Coal Trade Wagons' by Len Tavender (self published). I don't know of a drawing of the exCMR wagons though two of them were rebuilt as stone wagons and given diagram U1. Some details in the GWSG 'Pannier' no.33. The CMR wagons were built by the Swansea Wagon Co in the mid 1870s – details ought to be available somewhere in the GWR registers. The '0' prefixed numbers used by GWR when hiring in wagons deserves a treatise of its own!!! Photos of those used for china clay show a variety of plank heights and lenders. Even with the construction of the O13s, the shortage of wagons was going to continue until the depression of the 1930's. Even the LNWR Society was taken back when sent a photo of a LNWR wagon in line to discharge to conveyor at Carne Point!!! For a GWR modeller of the clay scene, the period from 1900 to 1931 gives tremendous wagon modelling opportunities. D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coline33 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I am currently going through the 'steam age' china clay wagons and depositing data of each type as I complete in a folder in both the Files and Photos sections of the China_Clay_Branchlines Yahoo Group. I am doing this in reverse order!!! BR diag.1/051, GWR rebuilds of ex-TVR wagons, GWR diagram O13 (94xxx series), GWR diagram O12, and GWR secondhand purchases (1906 and 1916) are covered with GWR 92xxx series in production and the BR folder to be updated. Behind the scenes work is continuing by the Group into the Private Owner Wagons (and their BR P-series renumbering). There are a small number of members interested in the ex-CMR wagons and study of the GWR Wagon Register entries will be made once NRM York have completed their work on the O13s. Then there is the hiring in both before the O13s were built and again post-WW1. So if you are interested you are very welcome to join the Group - the underlining in the Group's name are crucial to get the page - and add to the pressure to go further back into the past with these wagons. Regards, Colin. I have heard back from NRM regarding the GWR Wagon Register entries for the ex-CMR wagons in the 30xxx series to say they cannot see any confirmation as to which were used for china clay. As further news on these comes available then it will be added to the Yahoo Group's files. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 Dear all, Attached is a copy of the Railway Modeller Jan 1965 article which may be of interest. drduncan RM china clay article.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 Can anyone date the wagons that are drawn in the Raikway Modeller article posted above? drduncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Can anyone date the wagons that are drawn in the Raikway Modeller article posted above? drduncan English China Clays was formed in 1919 as a merger of Martin Bros, W of E China Clay & Stone and N Cornwall C Clay Co, and in turn linked up with Lovering and Pochin in 1931 to form ECLP – so that gives you some idea of operating dates allowing for up to 3 year lag in repainting wagons. Likewise the Slaters kit for the John Lovering wagon should cover the period from 1897 up to 1931. I've no idea if they (there were 5 of them) stayed in use that long. Loverings didn't buy any other wagons from Gloucester. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 Hi Richard, Thanks fof that. I don't suppose you can date the Hannan/Hannah Sawell wagon drawing? Regards D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Hi Richard, Thanks fof that. I don't suppose you can date the Hannan/Hannah Sawell wagon drawing? Regards D I haven't got any information on the company but the drawing has both the 1926 and 1933 RCH markings so that dates it. It appears to be a drawing of an RCH 1923 standard wagon though I've no idea if it is appropriate. Dapol produced a limited edition wagon in HS livery... Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 Thanks! D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Does anyone have a photo of North Cornwall China Clay Company Wagons? POWSides do a transfer pack but I have never seen a photo of the wagon. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Platt Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) Sorry, I've just found this post albeit 7 years too late to help! I do have a copy of a diagram for a conversion from BG of a West of England China Clay Co covered china clay wagon dated 2/4/92 (1892) numbered 9862w. The wagon has 3 x 10.5" planks, side doors and hinged covers in the style of salt or lime wagons. I also have diag 9861w dated 30/30/92 for the conversion of a 4-plank open of the same company. Both of the above were obtained from NRM York in 2009. They came with a diagram from GWR Swindon dated 17/12/86 for BG No 3 Cornwall Railway Brake Van which was 6 wheeled. Edited January 18, 2021 by Nick Platt addition 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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