Garethp8873 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Hello guys, I recently picked a lot of wagons which included four GWR Iron Minks. Two of them I can identify as regular GWR Iron Minks but the other two I can't determine what they are meant to represent. The one Iron Mink has DCI brakes from what I can fathom and has a handle on both ends on the left sides. I do not recall any of the GWR examples having these handles on them. As for the second, I would assume it's a GWR Gunpowder Van but I am not sure over the brake gears. If you need anymore pics, please ask and I will send. I've took these in a hurry. Many thanks! Garethp8873. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted July 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 23, 2014 The first one could be one of the ex Spillers iron minks bought by the GWR of which 30 were sold on to the Rhymney Railway (so between 1915 and their first repaint after Grouping you could have them in either livery. The second does indeed look very much like a GWR gunpowder van to diagram. But there are others on RMWeb much more knowledgeable than me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Gareth - it wasn't clear which of the pictures relate to your questions. Most of the brake gear in the pictures looks fictional. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted July 25, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 25, 2014 If they are from white mwtal kits they may well be of ABS origin. He did/doea a Barry Railway iron mink, a Z1 gunpowder van and a V6 iron mink. and may have done others in the past. I say does/did because not all of his range is always available. Also GNR, NBR, NER, LNW, LSWR gunpowder vans and two varieties of cement van which also have iron bodies. The GWR iron mink kit has separate doors so it is easy to change these to another design. But the DC brakegear seems to point to the first model being intended as an ex Spillers van, GWR V15, which is not in Adrian Swain's list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbr Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 The buffers also look wrong. I don't think any had round bases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted July 26, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2014 With the lack of detail on the brake gear on the last pic, it looks like they may have been attached back to front. Not sure what's going on with the broken lever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOxon Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Hi Garethp8873. You might glean some useful information from the thread at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35398-gwr-iron-mink-questions/ Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Hello all. Sorry I took the last set of photos in a hurry as I was busy. That will teach me not to hurry things like this again. I have took some more photos and hopefully these are alot better. All of the vans are EM gauge and constructed from the Ratio kit from what I have seen. These two are just standard Iron Minks. Nothing special unless you can see something I have not. This is the Iron Mink with the handles at both ends on the left sides and the unusual brake gear system. I have not seen anything like this in my books. The fourth I can assume is GWR Gunpowder Van. The one brake handle has broken off but can easily be replaced in the future. Hopefully these are alot better to see and help. My knowledge unfortunately only stems towards the GWR examples. Many thanks!! Garethp8873. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted July 27, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 27, 2014 The one with Dean-Churchward brake gear is not ex Spillers as they had DC1 which had both brake levers at the same end. The brake gear looks like an attempt at DC3 but as there is no connection between the levers and the brakes. However, as far as I know no GWR iron minks had DC brakes. The only other option is the Rhymney Railway minks built by Cravens in 1912 and 1913, but these actually had a coss cornered version of DC1 which includes the swan necked lever from the central V hanger to the brake lever. I can't see if this van has a swan necked lever. And even if it is the buffers are wrong as the RR vans had self contained bufers with rectangular bases. I am not sure what the buffers are meant to be. The only thing they bring to mind is some I have seen on GNR vehicles. And the dimensions of the Ratio kit are wrong for the RR vans. Your best bet might be to replace the brake levers by "ordinary" GWR style levers and treat it as an ordinary iron mink. And I would try to do something about the commode handles on the ends which look very thick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizerba Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Hi Gareth What you need is a copy of HMRS all about GWR Iron Minks which details the GWR minks and all the constituent GWR company minks, 3 sets of numbers covering the Spillers vans, these were purchased by the GWR in 1911 and were given the diagram V15,then went to RR and then renumbered 1923.Last one scrapped 12.52.Also they were slightly narrower than the GWR mink at 6ft 51/2 in. Regards bizerba Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAustin Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 The only GWR Iron Minks fitted with DC brakes (DC2) were the ones converted to cordite paste vans during WW1. After the war they retained the DC2 brake and were used for tea, presu,mably in fast fitted freight trains. Mark A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 The only GWR Iron Minks fitted with DC brakes (DC2) were the ones converted to cordite paste vans during WW1. After the war they retained the DC2 brake and were used for tea, presu,mably in fast fitted freight trains. It's reasonably certain that no Iron Mink built by the GWR was originally fitted with any form of DC brake, despite DCI being shown on the official V6 diagram. The cordite paste vans when converted in 1915 were given vacuum fitted DCIII. Lewis et al. in All about GWR Iron Minks quote the registers as saying 'righthand either side and vacuum brake'. They also show a late forties photo of 58515 with DCIII brakes. Why would they fit the outdated DCII when DCIII was already the norm for wooden bodied vans, with and without vacuum brakes? Beyond these conversions, there is some question of how may Iron Minks may have received DC brakes at some time. Lewis et al. only mention "...a few examples of GPVs converted to covered goods vans briefly between the wars." However, Atkins et al. claim that "The original one-sided lever brake on the GWR V6 vehicles was replaced sometimes by DCI and DCIII after repairs..." They also say that some of the Spillers/Rhymney vans received DCIII rather than the additional lever and single shoe. Despite these claims, photos seem a little thin on the ground... Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted July 28, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 28, 2014 Just to clarify one minor point in case it confuses future readers, only 30 of the Spillers vans went to the Rhymney. But that information doesn't help the current discussion at all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 The last vehicle has the doors of a GPV but the brake handle with a link in it (bottom row, first picture) makes me suspect that it is meant to be representative of an LSWR example. Given some of the inaccuracies elsewhere (those GW transfers on a red livery, for example) I don't know how representative without careful comparison to a reference book/photograph. This type of arrangement was common on other LSWR diagrams that I have studied for models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I was beginning to think the red livery was the elephant in the room that no one wanted to mention Yes, that slotted lifting link brake (if that's what it is meant to be) is certainly an oddity on the GWR. The only examples that come to mind, though there may be others, are the N32 vehicles built by Charles Roberts in the thirties and the post-WW2 N34. There's a photo of the mechanism on the latter on this gwr.org.uk page. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbr Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I took these at Didcot on Sunday. Note the buffers! There appear to be brakes on only 3 wheels. The two sides are independent as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I took these at Didcot on Sunday. Note the buffers! Good photos, David. The buffers are standard late c19 to early c20 GWR 1'6" tapered shank buffers as one would expect to see fitted to all Swindon built iron minks. There appear to be brakes on only 3 wheels. The two sides are independent as well. The additional single shoe brake was a late modification to comply with the right hand, either side, independent (i.e. release only on the side from which it was set) requirements. A few iron minks received these in 1924, but most were fitted from 1927 up to WW2. It was also fitted to some of the Spillers vans that retained DCI on one side (the left hand DC lever was removed) and to many of the absorbed iron/steel vans that did not come with compliant brakes. Nick ps. as you might expect, there are probably a few other features, e.g. door retainers, that are somewhat later than the pre-1904 livery in which this van is painted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbr Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Thanks, Nick. Useful bits to know and a warning not to take preserved vehicles at face value! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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