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Brian D

Deneside - BR North Eastern Region

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IMPORTANT NOTE - This topic was previously entitled "Hawthorn Town Mk 2 (Working Title)" and renamed on 11 November 2017.  Please go to page 52 post number 1288 for layout title back story.

 

Having retired over two years ago (slightly early, just now turned 65) but having the last two years interupted by my operation last year then my wife's this year, matters are now in hand to get moving on my next (who knows, and possibly my last) layout.  Living in a three bed semi with a pint sized back garden and having one and a half daughters (long story) still at home, the site of the new layout has been restricted.

The location options were considered as follows:

  1. One of the bedrooms - not feasible due to human occupancy.
  2. The loft - not feasible due to a very slack roof slope, I can't quite stand up straight under the ridge line.
  3. Move to a larger property - I don't think so!  Couldn't face the grief of buying, selling and moving.
  4. The garage - our garage is not used as a garage, more like an overflow store for bikes, fishing equipment, ladders and garden tools/mover/strimmer, additional refrigeration, (don't ask), etc, etc.
  5. A garden shed - feasible, just, but the garden is very small.

After much deliberation going back over quite a few years now, and more recent research and experimentation, the shed option has now been enacted.   The shed base was installed a couple of weeks ago (see picture below) and the shed arrives next week.

post-1115-0-68554600-1408644194_thumb.jpg

The base comprises a pressure treated timber base installed by others.  4 x 2 treated joist are supported on 4 x 4 posts concreted into the ground.  Hopefully, it will last many years (thought concrete was a bit OTT and paving slabs not quite up to it - this using my professional judgement as a structural engineer).

The shed I selected will be supplied by Summer Garden Buildings (see link below).  It is pressure treated shiplap.  Since the base was installed I have added a geo-textile sheet to keep vegetation down or dead and additional boards under the external joists in an attempt to keep little furry animals from getting under the shed.  There is an 18 inch gap between the shed walls and the concrete garage on left and the rear timber panel fence to the rear for maintenance access.

http://www.summergardenbuildings.co.uk/products/garden-sheds/garden-shed-200810.html

 

An unbelievable amount of semi related work has gone on over the last few weeks, including sorting out the garden and redecorating our bedroom (ulterior motive - carpet being replaced by a new one so old one rolled up a and put in the garage ready for installation in the shed).

 

Enough for now.  I'll post more info about the further work I need to do to the shed and the layout plan as time goes by.  This thread will be a slow burner me thinks.  However, all comments and questions are welcome but I only come on here usually once a day via my laptop, so apologies if I don't respond quickly, but I will try to respond as soon as I can.

 

Regards,

Brian.

Edited by Brian D
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Well done Brian, I'm glad you made a start, the base looks good, I was warned today about little fury rodents so I will be boarding around my shed in a similar fashion.

 

What size have you gone for, and what format do you envisage, a roundy roundy or BLT?

 

Also what region and era will you be running?

 

Good start, well done.

Bodge

Edited by Andrew P
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From experience with my shed, now 3 years old, have a good look at the drainage behind the shed before you actually get it erected.  I made the mistake of putting a henfeed bin in front of mine and silt has washed off the roof causing an area where damp can come through the shed wall.  The feed bin has now been removed and replaced with a gravel soakaway but I'm concerned the damage may already have been done to the main timber.....

 

All the very best

Les

 

edited as usual for tryping mistoke...

Edited by Les1952
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Well done Brian, I'm glad you made a start, the base looks good, I was warned today about little fury rodents so I will be boarding around my shed in a similar fashion.

 

What size have you gone for, and what format do you envisage, a roundy roundy or BLT?

 

Also what region and era will you be running?

 

Good start, well done.

Bodge

Thanks, Andy.

I opted for an odd size shed, namely 7 feet x 11 feet, giving me about 10.5 x 6.5 once I've lined the shed internally - this forced on me by the size of the garden.  I've been experimenting with "acceptable curvature" to arrive at a workable double track layout and will reveal more about this later.

I could not get a circular layout to work, meeting my "acceptable curvature" criteria so will be pursuing an end to end U shape or possibly a spiral!  Again, more later.

I am firmly stuck in the BR steam and diesel transition era favouring the North Eastern (tangerine totems) Region but the layout will probably end up Eastern (blue totems) Region following the merger of the two BR regions.

Regards,

Brian.

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From experience with my shed, now 3 years old, have a good look at the drainage behind the shed before you actually get it erected.  I made the mistake of putting a henfeed bin in front of mine and silt has washed off the roof causing an area where damp can come through the shed wall.  The feed bin has now been removed and replaced with a gravel soakaway but I'm concerned the damage may already have been done to the main timber.....

 

All the very best

Les

 

edited as usual for tryping mistoke...

Hi Les,

Yes indeed.  Once the shed is up, there will be an 18 inch "maintenance" gap between the existing garage and rear fence.  Enough room for me to get into the gap and sort out any problems.  I need to do a lot of work on the shed once it has been erected before I can start layout building.  More news on this later.

Regards,

Brian.

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Hi Brian.

 

Following your link in your PM, I'll keep an eye out on the new layout. Your shed option will certainly have Andy P's attention!

 

Looking forward to your progress!

 

Jeff

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I've mentioned above what I call "acceptable curvature".  It was becoming clear to me 2 or 3 years ago that I would not have the luxury of a large space in which to build my new layout.  This ruled out modelling an actual location with sufficient interest and this also leads on to the use of relatively sharp (compared to prototype) curves.  I really didn't want anything sharper than about 36 inch radius but was forced to the reality that that is exactly what I would have to do.  So, how to decide on the minimum acceptable curvature?

In the end I used various software to print curves and parts of a 4mm scale layout full size on A4 sheets, stuck the sheets together and "plonked" (there is no better word) on to the resulting patchwork quilt various trains or parts of trains to see how they looked.  The main concern was with the longer passenger stock.  Some photos of this exercise follow.

post-1115-0-20146600-1408896719_thumb.jpg

post-1115-0-26301700-1408896778_thumb.jpg

post-1115-0-10472400-1408896946_thumb.jpg

post-1115-0-69455500-1408897152_thumb.jpg

Apologies for the photo quality, especially the dmu image, but hopefully you can see what I was trying to achieve.

The upshot of all this was that I eventually compromised on a down line minimum radius of 30 inch radius and a corresponding up line minimum radius of 28 inches.  Any parallel goods headshunt inside the pair of main running lines would by necessity therefore be 26 inch radius which I could tolerate in terms of appearance for general shunting 0-6-0s and 4 wheel wagons.

So, the main outcomes of this exercise were that (1) I was not modelling a real location and (2) I had settled on the radius of the main running lines which were tolerable in terms of appearance.

Hopefully this does not smack of grandmothers and egg-blowing.  It is always slightly odd exposing one's self on the internet, if you'd pardon the expression, in this way in the anticipation that the audience finds all this waffle interesting.  Oh well, here goes, uploading now.

Regards,

Brian.

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The shed arrived yesterday and I'm very pleased with it despite a couple of issues.

post-1115-0-34660100-1409161165_thumb.jpg

post-1115-0-85038000-1409161209_thumb.jpg

One of the issues is that despite ordering and paying for two opening windows, it has only come with one.  No problem I'm told by the supplier, a replacent panel is on its way.

The other issue is the awful weather we had (non-stop heavy rain) over the Bank Holiday Monday and yesterday here in Essex.  The supplier is based in Northampton and it came all the way down from there on the back of their truck before being delivered and erected in the pouring rain.  The shed is very wet and needs drying out so a small 800 watt oil filled radiator is currently gently warming it up.

Until the replacement panel has been fitted and the shed has dried out, I am loathe to start insulating and lining the shed.  Instead, I need to concentrate on providing a decent all weather path from the patio to the shed door!

A slow burner this thread as I think I've already said.  More in due course.

Regards,

Brian.

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Well, not a lot is happening about the new layout at present until....

1... the shed dries out.  I reckon that its various components were loaded on to the delivery truck on the Friday, it rained cats and dogs most of the Bank Holiday weekend and the day of delivery and erection (Tuesday just gone) and was fully exposed to the wet all of that time.  Despite the fact it has been tanellised, this treatment does not keep the water out, it merely discourages timber munching bugs and wet rot.  So the dehumidifier has been brought out of retirement and is running 24/7 at the moment via an extension lead from the adjacent garage.

2... the replacement panel has been fitted, this with the missing opening window.  I'm promised this will happen on September 8th.

3... the shed has been insulated and lined.  I can't start this until the shed has dried out a bit more or finish it until the panel has been replaced.  But I'm planning on making a start and have bought some materials and identified others I need.

A slow burner as I keep saying.  This state of affairs has prompted thought of interim arrangements and the need to get trains running in the shed as soon as possible.  I have checked whether my existing layout will fit in the shed and it will, just, on the slant as shown below.

post-1115-0-27609200-1409420047_thumb.jpg

As a reminder, this is the scenic layout plan...

post-1115-0-60870900-1409420130.jpg

..and some recent shots showing some of the new stock that I have accumulated over the years.

post-1115-0-19969900-1409421398_thumb.jpg

post-1115-0-36705600-1409421445_thumb.jpg

post-1115-0-47554100-1409421483_thumb.jpg

post-1115-0-13153700-1409421514_thumb.jpg

post-1115-0-84406500-1409421551_thumb.jpg

A fairly catholic selection of BR Eastern Region RTR locos (with the exception of the J52 which is a hybrid Lima body on a Bachmann GWR Pannier Tank chassis) I think you will agree.  The new layout will therefore likely be based much further south than the Durham coast between Sunderland and Hartlepool which, I'm sure never saw any of these locos, or will be a "dual personality" type layout, depending on the stock I run.

Anyway, I still have a lot to think about including how I might metamorphose the existing layout into the new one in order to keep trains running as long as possible.

Thanks for popping in.

Regards,

Brian.

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I do hope you are going to throw a Q6-sized spanner in the ER works.....

 

Les

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I do hope you are going to throw a Q6-sized spanner in the ER works.....

 

Les

I have "expressed interest" on the appropriate website, Les :imsohappy:

Regards,

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Good Evening,

A quick progress (or lack thereof) report.

I checked with the shed supplier yesterday and my replacement panel is first on the list for Monday morning delivery, about 7.30/8.00 am so that's good.  In the mean time I've given a great deal of thought to the means of insulating and lining the shed.  At the moment I am planning to fill the 45 mm or so between the shed outer ship lap boarding and the 12 mm mdf lining (that I have opted for, mainly on grounds of cost) with "Multi-layer air bubble film insulation with aluminium bonded to both faces" from a well known DIY shed together with 25 mm thick Jablite polystyrene insulation, maintaining an air gap between the insulation layers and the ship lap.  The means by which I maintain the air gap will be by some sort of spacer system that I have yet to devise.

I have also done much measuring up of the shed interior framework in an attempt to sort out a cutting plan for the 8 x 4 mdf and Jablite sheets such that I can get them in the car!

So, in the meantime I thought I would post a picture of "Happy Knight", which formed part of my retirement gift from LU, posed on my existing layout - I was certainly a Happy Knight when I retired so it was a very appropriate gift.

post-1115-0-34221300-1410026699_thumb.jpg

Regards,

Brian

 

 

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Cleared the decks in the back garden this afternoon ready for the shed panel replacement tomorrow :)  Not very photogenic I'm afraid so here's another pic of the current layout featuring a Mucky Duck and a Cement Mixer :jester:

post-1115-0-71585000-1410109836_thumb.jpg

Regards,

Brian.

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Ooops, just been trawling through my photos.  The Cement Mixer is not heading the passenger stock,  The correct loco desciption should have been "Fairburn 2-6-4 tank".  Apologies.

Regards,

Brian

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Just had a call from the shed people.  Their truck has broken down and is being recovered so no remedial work will be done today :umbrage: However, it is now promised for first thing tomorrow :imsohappy: Keeping everything crossed now.

Regards,

Brian.

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Still keeping everything crossed for the morning but in the meantime this is not a Fairbairn tank, definitely a Concrete Mixer.

post-1115-0-05574900-1410211029_thumb.jpg

Regards,

Brian.

 

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The shed people arrived very early this morning and replaced the panel to provide two openable windows as originally ordered.  See decidedly dodgy phone pics below.

 

post-1115-0-30477000-1410285627_thumb.jpg

 

post-1115-0-53629400-1410285663_thumb.jpg

 

So it is time to crack on and sort out some cutting plans for the mdf lining...

 

post-1115-0-22339800-1410286496_thumb.jpg

 

...and commence work on the insulation.

 

post-1115-0-11073500-1410286087_thumb.jpg

 

To use the Facebook vernacular of some of my younger relatives, "Excited!"

 

Regards,

Brian.

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I went down to B&Q today armed with a cutting plan for the mdf sufficient to cover the rear wall.  Similarly I purchased enough Jablite for that wall (2 no 8 x 4 sheets), screws and more "bubble wrap", etc.  I was in there 2 hours!  Why oh why don't they get more staff in on "old codgers' day"?

Anyway, whilst I was in there, I stumbled across the pipe insulation and picked up a couple of lengths, which, when cut into short 15mm lengths, should make ideal spacers to maintain a void within the insulated and lined shed walls, see below.

 

post-1115-0-37265100-1410373191_thumb.jpg

 

Looking forward to making a good deal of progress on the rear wall tomorrow.  As a reminder, here is a drawing of what I'm trying to achieve.

 

post-1115-0-20605000-1410373559.jpg

 

Regards,

Brian.

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Good Evening All,

Quite a bit of progress today - three quarters of the long rear wall of the shed is now fully insulated and lined.  Progress pictures are as below.

 

First board and Jablite in place

post-1115-0-69845000-1410555605_thumb.jpg

 

Close up of the insulation and lining layers.

post-1115-0-38688600-1410555693_thumb.jpg

 

Second board and Jablite in place.  "You can hardly see the join, Ern"  :imsohappy:

post-1115-0-19015800-1410555767_thumb.jpg

 

All three boards in place, floor to ceiling.  I had to cut a slot in the mdf board for the central steel roof beam.

post-1115-0-24155500-1410555952_thumb.jpg

 

Admitedly, there is not much railway modelling visible yet.  But hopefully, those contemplating building or relocating a layout to a shed will find the above of interest.  I must admit that I did research garden sheds on here and elsewhere in formulating my shed delivery spec and insulation/lining options before progressing with this project.

Thanks Andy and the Warners' support.  What a fantastic resourse RMWeb is to its membership and all who call in here.

 

Regards,

Brian.

 

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Finished off the rear main wall this afternoon so one wall down in terms of insulation and lining out, three more (and the roof) to go.

I have measured up the long window wall including the positions of the various vertical and horizontal members so that I can prepare a cutting plan prior to my next "old codgers' day" visit to that well known DIY store.  The verticals are much closer together (circa 500 mm) than the rear wall (circa 800 mm) so I may well opt for 9mm mdf board to line it out - much lighter and easier to handle.

There is now likely to be a short intermission.  Me and Mrs D are off on holiday for a couple of weeks on Thursday next.  I doubt whether I will get much physically done before we go but hopefully will have sorted out cutting plans for the remaining work so I can get stuck in on our return.

Regards,

Brian

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Hi Brian

 

That is one good looking shed, I will keep an eye on how you progress with it.  Have you furthered the track planning at all?  I must admit to enjoying that phase of the work, especially with AnyRail.

 

Cheers

Tony

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Hi Brian

 

That is one good looking shed, I will keep an eye on how you progress with it.  Have you furthered the track planning at all?  I must admit to enjoying that phase of the work, especially with AnyRail.

 

Cheers

Tony

Hi Tony,

Thanks for dropping in.  Yes, I've been tinkering with AnyRail for several months.  I have a couple of options planned out in reasonable detail but am waiting to find out the final internal dimensions of the shed once all the insulation and lining is completed.  I'll post them on here in due course but another option is, in order to keep trains running, to adapt my existing layout by adding on a scenic U bend to link the terminus on one side of the shed with the fiddle yard on the opposite side. Ideally, this U section would incorporate a new loco shed and turntable along with a viaduct (which I'm keen to include, albeit a bit tricky to build on a 30 inch or thereabouts radius curve) and would ideally mate to the rebuilt mk 2 layout.

There is a lot to think about and plan out.  I also want to move from code 100 track to code 75, including live frogs.

A slow burner as I said so bear with me.

Regards,

Brian

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Still on holiday folks but dipping in to RMWeb when I can, hindered somewhat by a less than smart "smartphone" and intermitent wifi.
Back home on Thursday so will be in the shed soonest thereafter :-)

 

Edit on the laptop for duplication of text - stupid phone!  Or was it "pilot error"?

Edited by Brian D

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Back from Crete today (I miss the island already) but can't wait to get back in the shed.  Hopefully I'll have time tomorrow to get some more mdf and Jablite and crack on.

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I really couldn't be bothered (jet lag?) to drive the 8 or so miles to B&Q and back yesterday to buy more mdf and Jablite.  However, I did get in the shed for an hour yesterday and staple gun the bubble wrap stuff to the end wall.

Feeling more invigorated this morning, B&Q was duly visited and 1 sheet of 9mm mdf (including cuts) and a sheet of Jablte purchased, along with a shed alarm (noticed by Mrs D whilst heading for the checkout) and a couple of handsaws (2 for £10 - couldn't resist).  Got back home in a biblical downpour so didn't get all the stuff out of the car and into the shed until just now.

Anyway, I have now got enough mdf and Jablite to treat most of the shed windows wall which I hope to do tomorrow.  The forecast is good so I can drill, cut and otherwise work the mdf in the fresh air.  The dust from this stuff is toxic if inhaled so best done outdoors and not in the shed.

Hopefully more to report tomorrow.

Regards,

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