Early 80s scrap train , what wagons ?

[rob D2]

Hi,

Just wondering, would a circa 1982scrap train be mostly unfitted 16T or the bauxite vacuum fitted version ?

Thinking South Wales with this......a

 

Thanks

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

....seen rakes of MCVs used a few times during this period.

 

Dave

[br2975]

16 ton minerals mainly, with fitted wagons becoming more prominent as the unfitted vehicles were gradually withdrawn.

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There were also some fitted 21 tonners used, notably on a flow from Shotton to South Wales.

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First real use of AB wagons was toward the mid-80s using the SR (Standard Railfreight) wagons - which were occasional visitors to Tidal Sidings, but not in great numbers.

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ASW POA 'Black Adders' came in the mid-late 80s.

 

Brian R

[petethemole]

Scrap traffic along the Northam Tramway in Southampton to the Pollock Brown & Co/600 Group scrap processing/export site on the river continued until 1984 and I saw these trains several times. The wagons were 16 ton minerals and I remember them as mainly grey. Ian Drummond's book  has a photo of a brown one in 1974.

 

Pete

[Fat Controller]

I'd go with mainly fitted 16-tonners by then, possibly with some fitted 21-tonners (I don't remember seeing unfitted ones in scrap traffic, perhaps because shipment coal from Swansea used huge numbers). OHV (steel-bodied) and OWV (wooden-bodied) 13t opens were sometimes used, though the latter tended to be on a one-way trip, as loading/unloading wrecked the bodywork; I remember some being loaded at Longport from the former coke-loading ramp. Some became firewood...

A decade previously, 16t unfitted minerals predominated; when doing my daily wagon census at BSC Landore (someone had to..)in the summer of 1974, it was extremely unusual to see anything else. That said, there was still some variety, with welded/rivetted bodies and even the odd ex-LMS/LNER wagon.

[eastwestdivide]

Did the Sheerness Steel bogie scrap wagons get to S Wales? They were around in that period if you fancied modelling a few.

[Fat Controller]

Did the Sheerness Steel bogie scrap wagons get to S Wales? They were around in that period if you fancied modelling a few.

Pretty certain they didn't; South Wales, at the time, was an importing region, with flows to BSC plants at Llanwern, Port Talbot, Landore and Dowlais, Duport at Llanelli and ASW in Cardiff. The Sheerness wagons worked from the West Midlands, West Yorkshire and Snailwell to Kent.

[87023Velocity]

Hi,

 

I've attached 2 links which show fitted 16T mineral wagaons used on scrap traffic in the early 80's to the long closed Lowton Metals sidings at Ashton-in-Makerfield. I cannot remember if these trains then went to South Wales or Sheffield though.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/12352429@N07/12307207484/in/photolist-jKxE1u-d3Xhmj-eS8oPW-fPrjpS-fPrnKC-fPa4Qa-fPa1mc-eS8a3W-eS8f9G-eV8bGC-eS82F5-eS7Mh3-eS7ZY9-eRW9Mk-eRVNTz-eRVJZM-eRWbAX-eUVPzn-eS8rwY-f5QWvx-f5RaWv-eV87k7-eRVwkp-eRVCEz-gYrnER-eaVFTy-93FMYA-aZJosR

 

http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=3&id=3466&gallery=Railways&offset=60

 

The first picture with the class 02 is 1982 and the second picture is 1984. The 16T minerals were replaced with POA scrap wagons from around 1985/6.

 

Cheers

 

Simon

[rob D2]

Thanks folks,

Looks like I'll be sourcing some fitted 16T jobbies then

[Rivercider]

I agree that fitted 16t minerals are the most likely for scrap in South Wales in the early 1980s.

In the late 1970s we were sending scrap from Lawrence Hill in Bristol to Llanelli in unfitted 16t minerals,

The 1980 Steel Strike and subsequent steel plant closures meant many coal wagons suddenly became surplus 

and large numbers of unfitted coal wagons of all types were then stored and scrapped.

There were occasional forwardings of scrap from the West Country in fitted 16t minerals in the early 1980s going on normal services.

 

Here are a couple of shots of scrap traffic in South Wales in the 1980s.

46049 passes Gaer Junction Newport with 6C43 Severn Tunnel Junction - Llandeilo Junction 25/1/82

From comments added to this photo in my Flickr site we now know the scrap was tin can offcuts from Upton Park in Essex and destined to

Nevill's Dock Llanelli for Bachelor Robinsons Works for de-tinning. 

 

Later in the 1980s MDVs appeared on scrap traffic

47112 works a train of MDVs of scrap past Severn Tunnel Junction Undy Yard, it is heading for Cardiff Tidal, 25/9/86

 

cheers

 

[Fat Controller]

That's a heck of a lot of tinplate scrap for Batchelor-Robinson..Once it had been de-tinned, the majority went to BSC Landore, to make ingot moulds.

Towards the end of vacuum-braked operations, a hundred or so MDVs were fitted with through air-pipes, becoming MDW; most were used on relatively short-distance flows within N E England (Blaydon, Dunston and Byker to Teesside, for example). The air-pipe meant they could be worked in the various Tyne- Tees air-braked services. I'm not sure if any made it further afield.

[br2975]

Whilst I don't recall seeing them in South Wales in their early days, but Sheerness Steel JXA bogie wagons did reach Tidal during the 80s, 90s and 00s - on an occasional basis, as did the SR POA twin axle wagons..

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11/02/02            60032 19.52 (6V24) Saltley to Cardiff Tidal Scrap
3012, 3054, 3056, 3049, 9811, 3008, 3061, 9823, 3047, 3052, 5217, 4568, 4577,
470072, 470163, 5216, 5227, 470104, 470068, 470124, 4570, 5224, 5229, 5233, 4563, 5226, 470100, 470158, 5220, 470154, 4565, 5219, 5230, 470176

11/02/2002        60066 19.57 (6M74) Cardiff to Beeston
3016,3019, 3048, 9817, 9812, 3017, 3022, 3060, 9814, 3043, 3044, 3051, 3013,
3020, 3023, 3042, 3045, 3058, 3057, 9824, 9810

 

13/02/02            60057 Saltley to Cardiff Scrap
3052, 3047, 9823, 3061, 3008, 9811, 3049, 3056, 3054, 3012, 470176, 5230, 5219, 4565, 470154, 5220, 470158, 470100, 5226, 4563, 5233, 5229, 5224, 4570, 470124, 470068, 470104, 5227, 5216, 470163, 470072, 4577, 4568, 5217

 

 

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Brian R

[philwaglab]

The Upton Park to Llanelli traffic was quite regular in 1975 with up to 15 -20 wagons being loaded daily.

[60091]

 

Towards the end of vacuum-braked operations, a hundred or so MDVs were fitted with through air-pipes, becoming MDW; most were used on relatively short-distance flows within N E England (Blaydon, Dunston and Byker to Teesside, for example). The air-pipe meant they could be worked in the various Tyne- Tees air-braked services. I'm not sure if any made it further afield.

Thanks for that info (slightly hijacking the thread).

I thought I remembered seeing 21t wagons coded MDW but only had a couple of poor quality prints which didn't quite show for definite what the tops code was.

 

37198 IIRC on the Sunderland, Southwick Branch, scrap train made up of 5 MDWs in 1986.

[philwaglab]

I dont remember 21 ton MDV's being loaded with scrap up until 1984 in South Wales.Their main use was on block coal trains to Llanwern and Margam from the Gwent,valleys etc.I think once the coal traffic declined it was a case of use as many fitted wagons as possable for the traffic on offer.