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Connoisseur LSWR O2 for Pencarrow

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I thought it would be worthwhile starting a thread for my second 7mm loco build. It won't be started until after Christmas (the kit has been confiscated and sent off to Santa) but there's thoughts and information being gathered that needs to go somewhere.

 

So what will we be building this time? It's a new kit from Jim's Connoisseur range: a LSWR Adams O2 0-4-4 tank.

 

post-6675-0-62013700-1413324020_thumb.jpg

 

I can't show you photos of the kit contents yet as I don't have it, but here's one of the finished model from Jim's Website.

 

post-6675-0-02150100-1413110163.jpg

 

Learning from the Agenoria build I did check that all the parts were present and correct before it disappeared to Lapland.

 

First impressions are that the castings, although of the softer whitemetal, are clean, crisp and appropriate to the loco being modelled. I've not had chance to check the dimensions of the chimney and dome but I do know that Laurie Griffin produces any and all fittings.

 

The instructions can be downloaded off Jim's Website and are exemplary. Other manufacturers take note.

Chassis instructions download.

Body instructions download.

 

Looking forward to this one and hoping that it will be less problematic than the 1366. :O

 

Update 26th December 2014.

The kit has been received, wrapped in festive paper. So we can now have a look at the contents:

 

The box (pity it's not big enough to hold the completed loco).

 

post-6675-0-69193200-1419587596_thumb.jpg

 

Opening the lid reveals the destructions and lots of packing to keep the contents safe.

 

post-6675-0-74748400-1419587714_thumb.jpg

 

Under all the packing we find all the castings and the pre-rolled boiler.

 

post-6675-0-53055300-1419587766_thumb.jpg

 

post-6675-0-89490700-1419587837_thumb.jpg

 

Lifting the next layer of tissue paper we see the various wires etc

 

post-6675-0-50335300-1419587916_thumb.jpg

 

The first of the brass etches.

 

post-6675-0-30819300-1419588075_thumb.jpg

 

There's two of these, left and right handed:

 

post-6675-0-68200000-1419588319_thumb.jpg

 

The final etch. The big bit missing is the pre-rolled boiler.

 

post-6675-0-63956200-1419588381_thumb.jpg

 

And finally the NS chassis etch sheet.

 

post-6675-0-34305000-1419588426_thumb.jpg

 

All looks very promising.

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The kit covers both the mainland and IoW versions and appears to have alternative parts for Adams and Maunsell boiler fittings. The kit even comes with two figures for the cab. Nice touch Jim.

 

The only parts I may replace are the buffers and chimney for more robust brass versions.

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Are you moving Cornwall to the Isel of Wigget?

Noo Mike, I'll be building the mainland variety and so should have a few bits left over...

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Noo Mike, I'll be building the mainland variety and so should have a few bits left over...

Ah, cheap way of getting detail parts for the 1366 - seems Santa is a lot cleverer that we thought. ;)

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Talking with folk on the other Pencarrow threads and reading around, it would appear that the 0-4-4T arrangement is one of the most difficult to get running well.

 

The centre of gravity is somewhere between the rear drivers and the bogie. The bogie is more than just cosmetic and will have work to do. Paul has sent me a load of info on three point compensation and I think I'll have a go at it on this kit...

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Talking with folk on the other Pencarrow threads and reading around, it would appear that the 0-4-4T arrangement is on of the most difficult to get running well.

 

The centre of gravity is somewhere between the rear drivers and the bogie. The bogie is more than just cosmetic and will have work to do. Paul has sent me a load of info on three point compensation and I think I'll have a go at it on this kit...

 

I have absolutely no personal connection, but I'd wonder if it's worth having a discussion with Mr McGeown about the subject before getting too worried. He seems like the head-screwed-on-straight sort that might've designed his new kit to actually work correctly without need for manipulation? I know from having studied the instructions for the little Polly tank (that I'll be getting myself in the new year as a treat, my first 7mm loco kit after years of N and HO building) that he made basic provision for compensation in that simple loco.... one'd hope that a more complex and expensive loco would have equivalent consideration....

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Looking at the instructions Jim has incorporated simple compensation into the chassis. The rear drivers is fixed and is intended to be motor driven. The front driver is designed to rock. The bogie is designed to have one fixed side and the other pivoting.

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l have the Exmouth Jct and Wadebridge loco allocations from the Shed by Shed book but have been looking through various books to see which definitely ran to Bodmin in the late 50s / early 60s.

Michael Clemens, the Withered Arm gives:
- Nothing, but a coloured photo of 1368 on page 85.

Peter Foster, the Steaming 60s Vol 4 gives:
- Nothing, the album is set after the O2s were replaced by Ivatt Tanks.

George Reece, the Steaming 60s Vol 7 gives:
- Nowt.

CFD Whetmath, the Bodmin & Wadebridge Railway gives:
- page 21, 30199 at Wadebridge in 1959 with Set 23 (late crest and original boiler)
- page 33, 30199 at Bodmin North in 1961 with Set 24 (late crest and original boiler)

John Stetton, the Bodmin & Wenford Railway gives:
- page 26, 30236 at Bodmin North in 1958 with Set 29 (high cab)
- page 28, 30236 at Bodmin North in 1959 with a Bulleid SK and a Maunsell P Set (high cab, early crest and original boiler)
- page 54, 30200 at Polbrock in 1960 with Set 196 (one of my favourite photos - late crest and original boiler)
- page 89, 30203 at Padstow in 1954 with Set 28 (early crest and Maunsell boiler)

Mitchell and Smith, Branch Lines Around Bodmin gives:
- Plate 15, 30236 leaving Wadebridge in 1959 with a P Set  (high cab, early crest and original boiler)
- Plate 39, 30203 at Boscarne in 1954 with a P Set (Drummond boiler)
- Plate 40, 30203 at Boscarne in 1955 with Set 25 (early crest)
- Plate 81, 30236 at Bodmin North in 1959 with Set 28 (high cab, early crest and original boiler)
- Plate 111, 30236 at Bodmin Road(!) in 1958 with Set 2x (high cab, early crest and original boiler)
 

John Burden, The Arrival, Departure and Return of the Bodmin and Wadebridge Railway gives:

Nowt.

 

Peter Gray, Steam in Cornwall (colour) gives:

- (page 19, 1368 at Wadebridge in 1964)

- (page 21, 31834 at Dunmere Jct in 1963)

- page 24, 30200 at Bodmin North in 1960 (late crest and original boiler)

 

Keith Pirt, Steam Colour Portfolio, SR Vol 1 gives:

Nowt.

 

Keith Pirt, Steam Colour Portfolio, SR Vol 2 gives:

- page 48, 30200 at Wadebridge in 1957 with at Maunsell SK and 2no Bullied (late crest and original boiler)

- (page 53, 31853 at Dunmere Jct in 1960)

- (page 73, one for Robin: 34016 Bodmin at Brent in 1957)

 

Keith Pirt, Steam Colour Portfolio, Southern & Western Lines gives:

Nowt.

 

Bradford Barton, Bodmin and Wadebridge 1834-1973 gives:

- (page 70, 1368 at Dunmere Jct in 1964)

- page 74, 30236 at Wadebridge in 1958 with Set 198 (high cab, early crest and original boiler)

- (page 77, 31860 at Dunmere in 1962 with Set 30)

- page 95, 30236 at Wadebridge in 1958 

 

Bradford Barton, Southern Steam in the West Country gives:

- page 77, 30203 at Wadebridge East in 1951 (early crest and Drummond boiler)

- page 78, 30236 at Bodmin North in 1959 with a Bulleid SK and a Maunsell P Set (high cab, early crest and original boiler)

 

Bradford Barton, More Southern Steam in the West Country gives:

- page 67, 30193 near Padstow in 1950

- (page 68, 31842 at Bodmin North in 1958)

- (page 69, 31860 at Dunmere Halt in 1962 with Set 30)

- (page 95, 1833 at Aller Junction nr Dainton Bank in 1946)

 

Bradford Barton, Branch Line Steam Vol 3 gives:

Nowt.

 

Michael Welch, Southern Branch Lines (colour), gives:

- page 115, 30236 at Bodmin North in 1959 with a Bulleid SK and a Maunsell P Set (high cab and early crest)

 

Michael Messenger, the Bodmin & Wadebridge Railway gives:

- page 114, 30199 at Bodmin North in 1961 with Set 24 (late crest and original boiler)

 

Peter Semmens, the Withered Arm (Railway World Special) gives:

- page 4, 30200 at Wadebridge in the mid 50s with Set 25 (early crest and original boiler)

- page 16, 30200 at Boscarne Jct in 1955 with P Set (original boiler)

- page 16, 30192 at Bodmin in 1952 with Set 25 and assorted wagons (early crest, original boiler and handrail to top of rear cab sheet)

- rear cover, 30199 at Wadebridge in 1959 with Set 23 (late crest and original boiler) - colour 

 

Alan Bennett, Southern Holiday Lines in North Cornwall and West Devon gives:

- page 63, 30200 near Grogley in 1960 with Set 196 (late crest and original boiler)

 

Anthony Burges, Railways of Devon and Cornwall gives:

- page 61, 30200 at Wadebridge in 1955 with Set 25 (original boiler)

 

Southern Way Special Issue No.4, Southern Colour to the West gives: 
- Nowt
 
John Scott-Morgan, An Illustrated (but captionly dubious) History of the Atlantic Coast Express gives:
- page 115, 30??? at Bodmin North in 1958(?) with 2 Bulleid coaches
- page 117, 30200 at Padstow in 1954 with Set 23 (early crest and original boiler)
 

Frank Hornby and Norman Browne, Southern Region Steam Western Section gives:

- (30182 at Turnchapel in 1959 (early crest, original boiler and push pull kit))

 

Roy Hobbs, the Colour of Steam Vol 8, SR Branch Lines gives:

(30182 at Turnchapel in 1959 (early crest, original boiler and push pull kit))

 

Jeffery Grayer, In the Tracks of the ACE gives:

- Nowt

 

DH Beecroft, Steam Memories No12, Devon and Cornwall Lines gives:

- page 55, 30200 at Wadebridge in 1956 with P Set (early crest and original boiler)

 

Alan Earnshaw & Kevin Derrick, British Railways in Colours Volume 3, The Southern Region gives:

- Nowt

 

Peter Gray, Rail Trails: South West, Essays in Steam gives:

- Nowt

 

David Mitchell, British Railways Past and Present No 17 Cornwall gives:

- page 58, 30200 near Grogley in 1960 with Set 196 (late crest and original boiler)

 

Stephen Austin, Portrait of the Atlantic Coast Express gives: 

- Nowt

 

Stephen Austin, the Southern Railway's Withered Arm, A View from the Past gives: 

- page 6, 30200 near Dunmere Halt in c1950 with a Maunsell BCK and SK (original boiler)

 

TWE Roche, the Withered Arm gives:

(30182 at Turnchapel in 1959 (early crest, original boiler and push pull kit))

- (30183 at Gunnislake in 1955 (early crest, original boiler and push pull kit))

 

David Wroe, An Illustrated History of the North Cornwall Railway gives:

- page 168, 30193 near Padstow in 1950 with a P Set (original boiler and handrail to top of rear cab sheet)

- page 188, 30236 at Wadebridge in 1958 with Set 29 (high cab, early crest and original boiler)

- page 198, 30203 at Wadebridge East in 1954 with P Set 2X (early crest, Drummond boiler)

- (page 307, 1368 at Wadebridge Shed in 1962)

 

Please let me know if you know of any more shots of O2s in the Bodmin-Wadebridge area, thank you.

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Chris,

Do you have Bodmin and Wadebridge 1834-1978 Bradford Barton? Also Branch lines to Bodmin - Middleton Press?

20236 turns up on in a lot of photos from the late 50s.

30200 was seen at Bodmin(S) in 1960 in one of Peter Gray's books. It is also on the cover of the Middleton book.

Hi Paul,

 

These are the books I have with me at the moment, there's more at home to work through...

 

post-6675-0-47229500-1413123398_thumb.jpg

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I've now got my Shed by Shed book to hand:post-6675-0-61388300-1413142283.jpg

Exmouth Jct 72A O2 allocation:
30182 9/58-1/60 - push pull fitted?
30183 6/56-7/57 - push pull fitted?

30192 8/50-9/51 (then to Wadebridge)
30193 8/50-12/53 & 1/54-5/57
30199 8/50-5/57 & 7/57-10/61

30224 8/50-8/53
30230 8/50-9/51 - high cab
30232 8/50-10/59 - high cab


Wadebridge 72F O2 allocation:
30192 9/51-3/53
30200 8/50-3/61
30203 8/50-1/56
30236 12/55-1/60 - high cab

Edit:

3no high cab locos discounted.

2no push pull fitted locos discounted

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30200 looks to be a good bet then!

 

Said he who knows next to nowt about such things :)

Yes, Mickey, without ever really looking into this I've always had my eye on 30199 or 30200. We'll see if the research supports the gut feeling.

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Chris,

Do you have Bodmin and Wadebridge 1834-1978 Bradford Barton? Also Branch lines to Bodmin - Middleton Press?

 

20236 turns up on in a lot of photos from the late 50s.

 

30200 was seen at Bodmin(S) in 1960 in one of Peter Gray's books. It is also on the cover of the Middleton book.

 

Yes, got both of those Paul - the book reference post above is still being updated. Found a few more N Class than I was expecting...

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Chris,

 

Remember that 30227-36 had larger cabs. They were 6" higher. 30236 was at Wadebridge during your modelling era. Also watch out for the five fitted with air push pull kit; 182, 183, 187, 207 and 225 circa 1932/3. To confuse things 225 at least had it removed in the 50s.

 

As the 1366 has shown, photos of the prototype are essential. A trip to the Isle of Wight sometime to see W24? Not sure if she is a runner currently. You will have to track down a copy of Bradley's Adams classes book I think.

 

I fancy a Drummond boiler or push pull version to join my 229 at some stage.

 

Edit 183 was fitted with a Drummond boiler and push pull gear between 1945-1948 which would suit my layout, mmmm nice!

 

The Bradley Adams Classes book is the only one of the four I don't have in the LSWR series. Keeping an eye open for it but it seems to go for silly prices. Glad you mentioned the Drummond boiler - I went back through the photos to note which had them. Apparently the Drummond boilers weren't as good as the original type and were particularly disliked on the IoW. 

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Chris,

 

The Bradley Adams book lists the locos fitted with Drummond boilers, including dates. Shame it goes for silly prices as like the other three in the series, it is a good reference book.

 

If I remember correctly, somewhere in the book it states that the Drummond boilers had a tenancy to prime when steaming hard.

Just had another routine search around for the Adams volume. 1 available as part of a set for £180, one in the USA for $120 and a UK one for £80. Still looking.

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I bought one second hand and it was in reasonable nick, but a a book stall at a show I found a really good one for the price of the first so bout it and thought I would sell the first and I would end up with the 4 books all in good nick. Well, sold on our favorite auction site for more than I had bought both my copies.

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The content of Post 11 has been further added to - O2 sightings from 4 more books.

 

Edit - list completed for the 33 books I have that are likely to have local sightings of O2s in the Bodmin area.

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Evening all, based on the:

- overwhelming number of sightings in the book review compared to other candidates (see post 11)

- longevity of the allocation in the area (see post 18)

- late date of leaving the area (see post 18)

- lack of push pull gear (see post 7)

- loco being one of the low roof variants ie matches the kit (see post 7)

 

I'm going to base the kit build on loco 30200. 

 

Sorted. 

 

post-6675-0-30695500-1413326285.jpg

 

post-6675-0-08923300-1413326286.jpg

 

Photos of 30200 from http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/bodmin-to-padstow.html taken by the late Theo Beckett, former member of Cornwall Railway Society. The website is well worth a visit.

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I assume the bottom pic is actually OK but it looks like a 70s motor with the rear end jacked up a la Arseky & Crutch!!!

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I assume the bottom pic is actually OK but it looks like a 70s motor with the rear end jacked up a la Arseky & Crutch!!!

I thought the same, it looks a bit tail end high. No sign of any jacks so perhaps it's a dip in the track on shed?

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I assume the bottom pic is actually OK but it looks like a 70s motor with the rear end jacked up a la Arseky & Crutch!!!

 

Compensation beam needs adjusting, they obviously struggled to get 0-4-4s balanced as well...

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Hi Chris,  Here's some more colour refs to add to your list:

 

Peter Gray: West Country Branch Line, Colour Portfolio (Ian Allan, 2003)

 

30225 + Set 108 at Gunnislake, early 1961 - page 59

30200 + Set 196 near Grogley, 10 Sept. 1960 - page 64

 

Peter Gray: West Country Branch Lines (I/A, 1998)

 

1369 at Wenfordbridge, 27 April 1963 - page 77

 

Peter Gray: Steam Around Devon and Cornwall (I/A 2001)

 

30182 at Plymstock on Special, 2 May 1959 - page 39

30225 (possibly Set 108) Gunnislake, 15 April 1961 - page 40

30225 (possibly Set 108) Chilworthy, 15 April 1961 - page 40

 

Peter Gray: Steam in Cornwall (I/A 1993)

 

Already mentioned in your text in post 11, however, 30225 is possibly on Set 108 and 30200 on set 196, deduced from earlier shots by Peter Gray.

 

R.C. Riley: Steam on the South Western, Colour Portfolio (I/A, 2002)

 

30192 shunting at Devonport, 3 May 1961 - page 68

 

Alan Butcher: On London & South Western Lines (I/A, 1995)

 

30199 + Set 23 at Wadebridge, Sept. 1959 - page 77

 

Roy Hobbs: On Southern Lines (I/A, 1997)

 

30199 at Barnes on a Special near Staines? 25 March 1962 - page 46

1368 near Dunmere (dark photo), 4 May 1964 - page 79

 

In black & white,

 

Alan Postlewaite: The Best of Southern Steam (Sutton 2000)

 

30236 on a P-set duty 636 at Nanstallon, undated, plate 134.  Another photo of this train at Wadebridge appears in plate 142 - A.P.'s book, More Odd Corners of the Southern (Sutton 2001).

 

And finally - somewhere there is a photo of 30199 on Set 199 near Nanstallon, but I can't find it again - yet!

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Compensation beam needs adjusting, they obviously struggled to get 0-4-4s balanced as well...

 

My G5 doesnt do that.......but there again it does have about 3lbs of lead in it........maybe its a southern thing :jester:  :jester:  :jester:

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Cannot help with any photos old 30200 or others in the right area this is Colbourne at Havenstreet

post-8525-0-53495800-1401990168_thumb.jpg

 

Having moved from the Island I cannot get more photos but will post what I have.

Don

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Thanks Don. I visited the IoW Railway a few years back but the O2 was hidden away from view.

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