Steve's Caledonian loco work bench

[Londontram]

I wouldn't dare mention Cardean......

 

Opps ;-}

 

Andy G

I swear you know me to well Andy all those little secrets I whisper to you as we spend the nights together you promised not to tell any one remember.

 

 

 

Edit - whoops sorry I meant when we spend the night together with you on the night shift in the signal box and me at home with my insomnia.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Londontram

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 

 

...I think when painted it should look OK what do you think?...

 It'll be a rare observer coming frsh to the finished model who ever guesses what you started from for this end result. That's class 1 bashing.

 

You do realise that you are performing the magic spell that informs a manufacturer that here's a good subject that would make a really characterful RTR model?

[Londontram]

With so much detail added and bits of filler here and there I was finding it hard to get an over view of the jumbo so after flatting down the body and tender which if you recall was an old Triang one and seemed to be coated in a very flaky old varnish which took a bit of shifting so after masking of the tender wheels I gave the whole lot a couple of coats of gray primer so now at least I could see what else needs doing body wise.

 

     As it happens it appears not a lot so it was put back together and a few pictures were taken, sorry I've indulged my self a bit here the first one being on my short test track with its first freight train.

and in this shot running tender first.

A final close up on the loco.

I think its possible to go over the top with the detail and I think the trick is to strike a happy balance so apart from the hand rail knobs and wire I feel its about there construction wise but will obviously still need lots of painting and lining plus crew and number plates before its finally done.

 

While "playing" I lined up the locos and took a couple of pictures.

Not bad for a summers work the locos from left are the Jumbo, Dunalastair 1, Dunalastair III and the 492 class 0-8-0 tank loco

A bit of Scottish beef, I tell you what you've just got to love smokebox wings - old Angus there at the front loves them all.

 

Any way play time over and I've been thinking that I'm going to need a few lamps to go on the locos and the Caledonian had a strange double lens lamp that could show different colour lights to the front and rear as the locos had lamp brackets on the side of the cab instead of along the front and rear buffer beams. I had the measurement for these lamps which are round bodied 6in across and about 10in high so in 4mm that works out at 2mm wide by about 3mm high so I quickly knocked this up and although the main body is the right width it needs reducing in height by taking about 1mm off the top and bottom of the main body and then soldering up I think it could have potential and this only took a few minutes to get to this point. What do you think?

Here's a plan of the lamp.

Thanks for looking, hopefully the hand rail knobs will be here in the next few days and I can get these even more closer to being finished. Steve

Edited November 3, 2015 by Londontram

[CKPR]

Well this pretty much puts the kybosh on the old Jamieson 'Jumbo' kit I've got stashed away...!

[manna]

G'day Gents

 

Can't be bothered to build one loco at a time, he builds 'Fleets' of em !

 

Excellent looking loco's.

 

manna

[Londontram]

So the question is chaps is this the next project starting point? after all the thread title says "Two jumbo 0-6-0 locos" and remember where I got the parts to start the first jumbo.

 

Or do I need a break from another jumbo straight after the last one and should I be looking at something completely different?

 

What do you think

Edited November 3, 2015 by Londontram

[Bon Accord]

903 gets my vote.

I wonder if it's carvable from a B12?

[Mike 84C]

903 looks a heck of a thing!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

903 gets my vote. I wonder if it's carvable from a B12?

It sort of is, but. I dimly recall a write up in the 1960s, and the end result was pretty good for appearance. The only largely unchanged component from the B12 was the mazak block, and this had been bushed and rewheeled for 26mm drivers. The body almost toally disappeared, all that was left in the end was part of the smokebox saddle and front platform to the buffer beam! When the shape of the 903 is analysed it's so simple as to suggest a scratchbuild is the way. Flat sheet for the running plate, tube above for boiler and smokebox, linked by two cuboids for the cab and smokebox saddle.

[Londontram]

Well I've done the numbers on this and also brought together quite a few bits and bobs for it. The B 12 chassis is as near as damn it wheel size and axle spacing to the 903 class and I've got a couple in stock with both the old X04 and the new motor so I'm OK there,

 

     I've got another white metal bogie tender kit like the one used on the Dunalastair III build which needs a bit of restoration but is basically complete so thats another major part sorted. As for the body it would be pretty much scratch built with the running plate made in the same way as the 492 0-8-0 was with a plasticard deck with square section brass rods for the valances to give it strength.

 

   With stripping the GBL T9 for bits for the other builds I've got a couple of running plates left over and from these I should be able to salvage the double wheel and con rod splashers to splice together for this project. These are a complex shape and doing this will be a great help which leaves the boiler of which I have a nice bit of electrical conduit tube for, and the cab which will be scratch built from plasticard.

 

I have a smoke box door and valve chest cover from ebay via a Caley parts supplier who shall remain name less and other fittings like the chimney, dome, air pump and safety valve etc I've already made for all the other builds so would not pose a problem on this one.

 

   So as you see I've already got quite a head start and after the experience gained in the previous builds means this shouldn't cause any great problems so I'm tempted to make this the next on the list.

 

There is other options like the second jumbo or a 782 class 0-6-0 tank again using the smoke box, chimney, boiler (shortened) with dome and safety valve from a Caley single body with the rest of the body built like the 492 tank or also a 104 class 0-4-4 tank that some of you might recall I've already converted a Hornby chassis for, this would be built along the same lines as the 782 tank again using a Caley single as a donor.

 

     One of the reasons for using the single body is it gives all the locos a uniformity across the range giving them a strong Caledonian identity plus having the smoke box, chimney, dome and all the other bits saves a lot of modeling what can be awkward shapes to make from scratch.

 

Oh dear choices choices, the trouble is I quite fancy them all

[Londontram]

Did some test running and the jumbo ran like cr-p stopping at every turn of the wheel which was the clue to what the problem was which was the cranks catching on the inside of the body so I had to shave a fair bit away with a craft knife before it would run smoothly. I like these modern Hornby chassis there sweet runners with quite a nice slow speed control as well.

 

I also soldered up the Caley lamp after filing it down to the right size and here it is, sorry but my phone camera doesn't do close up to well

Almost dimensionally correct being 2mm wide and 4mm high I just need to reduce the flue a bit more but now I've proved it can be done I'll make up a simple jig so I can run off a few more

Any way Angus seems impressed

                                                       Steve

Edited November 4, 2015 by Londontram

[jessy1692]

Fantastic stuff, and it just keeps on coming! Looking forward to seeing how these develop, at your speed im guessing theyl be done by next week!

Excellent modelling and write ups as ever

[Jock67B]

Steve,

That is really superb, I think I'd need an 'Optivisor' on to work at that sizeable!

Well done,

Kind regards,

Jock.

[Londontram]

Well after vacillating for a few days (indecision is a terrible fault of mine) I've decided on the next victim sorry I mean project and even though I hinted at Cardean I bottled out and went for something a bit more lowly and humble but one of the bread and butter locos that are essential in any Caley loco line up. So the next build will be one of the standard 782 class 0-6-0 tanks.

The maid of all work standard shunting and trip loco which could be seen all over the Caledonian system.

Here's also a set of drawings you help show you the general layout.

 

   Like the Jumbo am using parts from a Caledonian single body so the first job has been to strip one down to recover the components that are going to be used which is mainly the smoke box and boiler but like the jumbo I should be able to recycle the running plate as well. Here is a picture of the body cut up into the parts that will be reused.

So now the parts have been butchered it 's time to start putting a plan into action. Now at this point I have an image in my minds eye of what I plan to do so what I need is you to have faith and give me time to develop the ideas like I did with the other which seemed to work out OK in the end.

 

I am going to use the boiler top with the fitting on as after all there Caledonian and to get the position right the boiler was cut just infront of the singles splasher and a 5mm secten was removed between the smoke box and the point by the splasher this will have the effect of bringing the dome and safety valve forward in line with where they need to be for the 782 tank. It's only rough cut at the moment but you can get the idea from this next picture of the cut boiler on the set of drawings for the 782 note the section that has been removed as well

 

So now its all chopped up time to put something together to make the build official. I've decided to use the running plate as it worked out quite well with the jumbo so I thought I might try it here, the running plate was turned round so the front buffer beam would now become the rear buffer beam because where the old single body was cut away the area at the front is still nice and wide so when turned round will provide the running plate for the Caledonian style recessed cab and bunker to sit on.

 

  A buffer beam off another project (You see all the bits get used in the end) will be used on the now front end so the running plate parts were cut down to the correct length of in this case 112mm total length and to help keep them flat and square and also the correct length all the parts were clamped to a steel 12in rule and once nice and in line all the parts were glued; a small infill section of plasticard was also added for the area below the smoke box which you can see as the white piece in the next picture.

and in this one you can see its spot on length wise

 

After it had dried I couldn't resist sitting the parts on the running plate to start to get a feel of what it will be like, in some of these pictures you can see the Bachmann pannier chassis that will be used to power this model

In the next stage the old singles splashers will be hidden behind the 782 side tanks leaving the top of the boiler with all the fittings. Any way that's as far as I've got today but at least its launched the project.

Before I go just check out the last picture, all the talk about cutting up and butchering has left poor old Angus in a bit of a flap but he's a bit happier now its already starting to go back together. 

   Thanks for looking Steve

 

PS at least there no bloody air pump this time

Edited November 6, 2015 by Londontram

[uax6]

Argggh! That means that I'm going to have to finish my SEF one now.... Noooooooo!

 

Andy G

[Londontram]

Have had to do a few DIY jobs round the house this week end so only got a chance to do a bit more this afternoon the main job being the chassis and running plates so using the drawings to get the position and general height some strips of plasticard were laminated into a block at the front behind the buffer beam and at the back a box type structure was built behind the rear buffer beam. The height was checked using a buffer height gauge and when adjusted screw holes were drilled in the plasticard extensions to line up with some handy existing holes in the chassis and self tapping screws now hold the running plate firmly in place. Here is a picture of the inverted chassis with the extensions fitted.

 

I soon become obvious that I would have to chop a whole lot more off the boiler center section because of clearance problems with the wide Bachmann can motor. By the time I had done there was only a thin strip with the dome and safety valves on this was reattached to the remaining bit of boiler and smoke box and left to dry.

 

     There's no problem with this as the side tanks on the 728 come up very high and there's only a small bit of boiler top on show. In this second picture the smoke box and boiler have been sat in there general position and you can see how much boiler is left and how the can motor takes up quite a lot of room.

In this picture you can see the brass frame gauge used for checking the buffer height I'm sorry I don't know who makes these as it was given to me by a friend.

 

  I did get the Bachmann chassis for the jumbo build but when you look at this and see how wide the can motor is you can see why it wasn't suitable for the tank less jumbo boiler which is why I swapped to a Hornby chassis for that build.

 

  Sorry the photos aren't very good tonight the light was awful and unknown to me until after I down loaded them there was a finger print or something on the lens so they've come out a bit misty any way you should be able to get the general idea, thanks for looking Steve

[uax6]

Looks like you have still got plenty of boiler left mind. Don't forget to get some lead inside the smokebox and tanks, I've an advantage with the whitemetal kit.

 

Is there an overhang of the boiler over the top of the worm? The angle doesn't really show how much space there is towards the rear.

 

Andy G

[Londontram]

Oh yes Andy the boiler will be fine as you know the 782 has very high tanks and the top curved join to the boiler almost touches the base of the dome so theres plenty of boiler there to blend in to the tanks. As to the worm in the cab that falls just behind the back head so will be nicely hidden but the gear train will encroach on the cab floor slightly but a well positioned crew will hide that.

 

As to weights I've got the wheel balancing bar weights to use in the tanks like on the 492 and I'll pop a couple of nuts packed with blue tack into the boiler/smokebox area

[Londontram]

Did the numbers on the 782 tank and found I was coming close to building in an error with the 782 tank which was the width of the running plate which I had salvaged from the Caley single model. The lesson here is NEVER assume which I'm ashamed to say with all the model experience is what I did, thankfully I found it at this stage of the build while I was comparing the model with the drawing. The width of the singles running plate is 7ft 6in or about a scale 29mm and the Triang single model managed to get this measurement right (About the only one) the jumbo is the same which was fine for that build but I had started to do this build and just assumed the running plate was a standard size but its not the 782 tank is 8ft 6in wide or 34mm in 00 scale which is an extra 5mm which is to much to try and pass off so before I go any further I've scrapped the running plate and will make a new one from plasticard. So model makers be WARNED don't make the stupid mistake I did.

 

While on the subject of measurements I had to make a second cut in the remaining section of boiler, I had already made a cut between the smokebox and dome and took out about 3mm but now I've made a second cut between the dome and safety valve and took another 2mm out there this has brought all the boiler fittings in perfect alignment with the plans. Here's a picture by the way the chimney is in the right position its just the camera angle

You can also see how high the tanks are and how little of the boiler top is on show with the tank tops almost touching the base of the dome

As I say thankfully I found the mistake before I went any further so there's no real loss I even managed to remove the chassis extension I had made so will be able to reuse it on the new running plate. Steve

 

PS My son and his wife are coming to see us for a week and its the first time we've seen him since his return from his posting in Iraq so I don't think I'll get much done for a few days so don't worry if the updates get a bit sparse

Edited November 9, 2015 by Londontram

[Strathwood]

Did the numbers on the 782 tank and found I was coming close to building in an error with the 782 tank which was the width of the running plate which I had salvaged from the Caley single model. The lesson here is NEVER assume which I'm ashamed to say with all the model experience is what I did, thankfully I found it at this stage of the build while I was comparing the model with the drawing. The width of the singles running plate is 7ft 6in or about a scale 29mm and the Triang single model managed to get this measurement right (About the only one) the jumbo is the same which was fine for that build but I had started to do this build and just assumed the running plate was a standard size but its not the 782 tank is 8ft 6in wide or 34mm in 00 scale which is an extra 5mm which is to much to try and pass off so before I go any further I've scrapped the running plate and will make a new one from plasticard. So model makers be WARNED don't make the stupid mistake I did.

 

While on the subject of measurements I had to make a second cut in the remaining section of boiler, I had already made a cut between the smokebox and dome and took out about 3mm but now I've made a second cut between the dome and safety valve and took another 2mm out there this has brought all the boiler fittings in perfect alignment with the plans. Here's a picture by the way the chimney is in the right position its just the camera angle

782 tank boiler shortened.jpg

You can also see how high the tanks are and how little of the boiler top is on show with the tank tops almost touching the base of the dome

As I say thankfully I found the mistake before I went any further so there's no real loss I even managed to remove the chassis extension I had made so will be able to reuse it on the new running plate. Steve

 

PS My son and his wife are coming to see us for a week and its the first time we've seen him since his return from his posting in Iraq so I don't think I'll get much done for a few days so don't worry if the updates get a bit sparse

Must say I am enjoying the progress of this and its sister thread on 4-4-0s.

 

A thought comes to mind which I am sure those well versed in all things Caley and Highland will confirm or deny.

 

But how about using the spare body off the tender tank from either a GBL 123 or a Hornby 123, on a Hornby T9 tender chassis towards a Small Ben? Or is it better to chop up a Hornby T9 six wheel tender in the first place with this aim for a Small Ben?

 

Also where does the tender off a Hornby 700 stand in all of these possible conversions?

 

Having just taken the plunge myself with a few purchases of Highland kits and a Hornby T9 with narrow cab & 6 wheel tender in SR livery. This latter purchase is for the chop, to yield mechanism and whatever else I can re-use. My other layout is settled now as Southern Region c1957-63, whilst the Highland layout will be c1948-53 with a large dose of flexibility regards motive power ala Richard and the Far North Line.

 

Like the late Richard Denny of Buckingham fame, I also think if it looks right it is right, much better than to spend hours of dissappointment going over what looks like a fine enough representation with a vernier and micrometer, and to keep losing count of the rivets, and realise that the scale weight of the locomotive is totally wrong...

 

If you cannot see the extra detail whilst the model is on the track, then I for one will not bother myself over putting it on.

 

Keep up the good work, as our chances of ready to run for many of these prototypes is scarce indeed, save maybe for a Caley 0-4-4T or 4-4-0.s. However it would be nice to see a RTR Jones Goods which many would purchase for running specials on their layouts I suspect, pity GBL did not supply one. Whilst some of us more deviant souls might be stripping them down to make other models or worse still in the eyes of some painting them black and giving them BR numbers!

 

Kevin

[uax6]

To create a Small Ben tender, you need to use reduce the length of the T9 tenders. I can't quite remember how much you have to chop out now, something around 6 mm I think. Heres one I butchered earlier http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67934-highland-bodgery/page-6and post 132. 

 

The axleboxes on the 6 wheeler are wrong, as are the sideframes, but I have got over that with some plasticard and resin castings...

 

The watercarts will again need some shortening, but I've not investigated cutting one up yet.

 

The Blackmotor tender is probably much like the T9 6wheeler, so again needs new frames, but as for length I can't comment, as I've only handled the BEC version.

 

The T9 makes a very nice Big Ben, with little work, just a chimney change (I used a SEF one, but can't remember what off (I think it's either GW or BR standard), a dome change (from the bits box I think). I need to finish the painting and lining on mine..... For a Wee Ben I doubt you'll get the motor inside it, although the SEF/Nucast kit is quite good (I bought the body from Dave at SEF a couple of months back, and the chassis came from Brian at Branchlines, although he didn't have any rods. The chassis is the same as the D40 one if you call him.)

 

The advantage of the T9 tenders are the pickups, although they are not the most reliable, but they certainly help, and the reduction of weight to tow about is very useful.

 

Andy G

[uax6]

I have finally found an invoice that I've been looking for for months, while looking for the cats vet card (which I didn't find). The chimneys for use with the T9 to make it a Big Ben are SEF GWR County ones. Looking at the invoice it could be that the dome I used came from SEF's Met E class, as I ordered two at the same time.

 

Andy G

[Strathwood]

I have finally found an invoice that I've been looking for for months, while looking for the cats vet card (which I didn't find). The chimneys for use with the T9 to make it a Big Ben are SEF GWR County ones. Looking at the invoice it could be that the dome I used came from SEF's Met E class, as I ordered two at the same time.

 

Andy G

Thats useful as whilst I have Sutherland kit part built for a Small Ben in stock, as you say the T9 might become a large Ben in the fullness of time.

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

Edited November 12, 2015 by Strathwood

[Londontram]

As my son and his wife have been down to stay I've not had a chance to do any thing for a few days but they went out today to visit some old friends so after a visit to the dentist first thing I escaped to the man cave and did a bit more.

 

     As you may recall back in post No. 64 I found I was almost going to make a big mistake with the running plate on the 782 tank so I scrapped that one which I had made from the original single one and built a new one from plasticard with square section brass rods for the valances in exactly the same way I had done for the big 492 tank.

 

   The only difference this time rather than build the loco and add the steps at a later date I made and soldered the steps to the square section brass valance before fitting that to the running plate. I took a chance with the steps on the other one soldering close to the plasticard body and got away with it but I didn't want to push my luck. The steps them selves were made in the same way as the 492 tank from strip brass filed to shape with a half round file.

 

   In the first picture is the two bits of square section brass rod with the brass steps soldered onto them, one of the strips is sat on the plan showing how the steps are in the correct position.

In this next picture is the new wider running plate made from plasticard with the brass valances fitted note I managed to save the chassis mounting pieces from the old running plate and re use them here.

and the final picture is the running plate fitted with some Hornby T9 buffers and mounted back on the chassis ready to start building the body. Note at the moment the buffers are only push in fitted and have not been glued in place yet.

Once again the smoke box and boiler are sat in the approximate position they will be in when the body is built. Next I'll start building the tanks and cab. Thanks for looking Steve

Edited November 12, 2015 by Londontram

[Northroader]

Hey, Steve, keep this trend up and you'll be making the whole loco out of brass sheet next.