LNERGE Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) I've made a start on making a model of this.. https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/5630333985/in/faves-32297024@N08/ Obviously in the absence of drawings etc there has been some guesswork. A number of questions have arisen also, some of which have been answered by questions on the Flickr pages themselves' and others not. In the above photo there are hoppers standing on the adjacent road. I've not found a photo of this location without wagons present. Was there a separate hopper discharge arrangement on this line or could the hoppers be discharged on the tipping installation? Clearly wagon movements were carried out by capstan at Lincoln. Were loco's permitted over the tipper bridges? https://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/6454426137/ Clearly here the loco is on the tipper but was this a regular thing? I intend to suggest with my model that the larger mineral wagons are dealt with like the 21 and 24 ton versions. Does it look like the installations pictured could do so? https://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/6454428569/in/photostream/ The 'wing' extensions pictured at Corrals Wharf appear, as far as i can make out, not to be present at Lincoln. They are clearly there to stop the end door opening too far and thus offering some degree of additional control/regulation to the discharge operation. Is this the case? Did all installations have these extensions? I've not decided what role my discharge facility will fulfil yet. A coal concentration depot is favourite but that will require extra modelling to represent the other handling equipment at these locations. If it were to represent a discharge facility at a small power station or large factory boiler house i could get away with just representing a conveyor etc. The coal concentration depot at Norwich Victoria looks like it could only deal with hoppers but there appeared to be a long conveyor system that could discharge coal directly into storage bunkers quite some distance from the railway. Does anyone have any pictures of this facility they'd be willing to share? I've not decided on how to animate the model yet and i certainly don't intent modifying any wagons to have opening end doors. (I do have a handful of the Hornby wagons though) I feel the bridges do need to lift at the very least. This means the wings will need to be moved into place manually first or i'll have to find a way of doing it automatically. The thought process has got to this stage yet. Can anyone recommend anything on the web that might provided some inspiration on this aspect? Edited February 21, 2015 by LNERGE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) The device was almost certainly designed so that it could be used by hoppers as well as flat-bottomed wagons; there would have been a gap between the rails so the hoppers would drop their load on to the same conveyor as the end-tippers. We had a similar arrangement on the rotary tippler at BSC Landore, as different coking plants used different wagons to supply us. The tipping platform would have had no problem in accommodating longer wagons, such as 21 or 24 tonners; they'd just have overhung more on the non-opening end. Smaller locos, like the B4 or an 03 diesel shouldn't have presented any problems to the decks of these devices, as their axle-loadings would be lower than a fully-loaded 21t or heavier hopper. There have been some useful articles in 'Rail Express Modeller' on modelling a Coal Concentration Depot. Most were more compact than the Lincoln site, with a conveyor to take coal from the unloading point to the various cells (coal would be of different grades and for different merchants). On some sites, the cells were arranged in an almost circular fashion, with the unloading conveyor feeding another which could be pivotted to feed individual cells. On other sites, the cells were arranged in a line. That Lincoln site seems to be very spread out; presumably tipper lorries took the coal from the unloading point to the cells? I'm wondering who might have built these end-tippers; two firms involved in the rotary types were Stothert and Pitt (Bath) and Strachan and Henshaw (Bristol). Perhaps it might be worth looking for information on either? I just found this thread in another iteration of RMWeb- it may be of interest:- http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30615 Edited February 21, 2015 by Fat Controller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 I'm wondering who might have built these end-tippers; two firms involved in the rotary types were Stothert and Pitt (Bath) and Strachan and Henshaw (Bristol). Perhaps it might be worth looking for information on either? Unfortunately i'm just off out the door to entertain the little people but a quick search has thrown up some interesting stuff. I busy evening later. Thanks for the pointer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted February 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2015 This look like an excellent modeling project, going off topic slightly when did Victoria CCD start dealing with Hopper's. I was in a model shop the other day looking at the new Hornby 21 tonner and thinking it was a shame I couldn't run them on my layout which is set in Norfolk mid 60s but now I may have an excuse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 This look like an excellent modeling project, going off topic slightly when did Victoria CCD start dealing with Hopper's. I was in a model shop the other day looking at the new Hornby 21 tonner and thinking it was a shame I couldn't run them on my layout which is set in Norfolk mid 60s but now I may have an excuse Victoria CCD was apparently NCB-owned, so probably dealt with hoppers from its inception; one of the ideas behind CCDs was to get away from the old idea of merchants treating mineral wagons as a stockpile and loading platform. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 Some progress.. A hopper positioned for discharge.. The first set of wings arresting a 16 tonner during tipping.. Hopefully adding a bit more material and a tosh of paint will hide some of my lumpy soldering etc. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Is that one of the BR-built 13t hoppers? Presumably scratch-built? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Is that one of the BR-built 13t hoppers? Presumably scratch-built? Every now and then i have a go at scratch building. This one runs ok so i should finish it...one day.. Edited February 21, 2015 by LNERGE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) A bit more progress. I've used a bit of licence and added the sidewalls after trying a Hornby Hargreaves wagon and the mess it made... Now to thicken up the bridges.. Edit to add.. I put a comment in the topic description along the lines of 'Project inspired by DaveF's pictures of the Lincoln installation' but i can't see it appearing anywhere. Edited February 21, 2015 by LNERGE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted February 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2015 A bit more progress. I've used a bit of licence and added the sidewalls after trying a Hornby Hargreaves wagon and the mess it made... 20150221_200803_resized.jpg Now to thicken up the bridges.. Edit to add.. I put a comment in the topic description along the lines of 'Project inspired by DaveF's pictures of the Lincoln installation' but i can't see it appearing anywhere. I don't think "Topic Description" ever appears on screen. I've tried it before and got nowhere. By the way, I assume you also found the colour photos of the Lincoln installation in my flickr collection. If you'd like copies of the image files PM me an e mail address and I'll send them. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 I don't think "Topic Description" ever appears on screen. I've tried it before and got nowhere. By the way, I assume you also found the colour photos of the Lincoln installation in my flickr collection. If you'd like copies of the image files PM me an e mail address and I'll send them. David Any help to see thing's with more detail would be greatly appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 Some progress but work keeps getting in the way. I wanted to animate the thing with a simple mechanism that didn't involve trying to operate more than one part per bridge. All i need to do is fit some cams and microswitches plus a motor drive per bridge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Some progress but work keeps getting in the way. I wanted to animate the thing with a simple mechanism that didn't involve trying to operate more than one part per bridge. All i need to do is fit some cams and microswitches plus a motor drive per bridge. Nice work; the next step is modifying some end-door minerals to suit. I'd go for a piece of sheet steel for the floor, with a (very) small magnet on the bottom of the end door to keep it shut whilst the wagon is horizontal. When the wagon is tilted, the magnet should be weak enough for the door to swing open. For the top hinge, use a piece of thin rod, fixed to the top of the door, and slightly longer than it. This would fit through a hole in a bracket at each side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 Nice work; the next step is modifying some end-door minerals to suit. I'd go for a piece of sheet steel for the floor, with a (very) small magnet on the bottom of the end door to keep it shut whilst the wagon is horizontal. When the wagon is tilted, the magnet should be weak enough for the door to swing open. For the top hinge, use a piece of thin rod, fixed to the top of the door, and slightly longer than it. This would fit through a hole in a bracket at each side. I'm going to try but i fear that may be a bit fiddly for my great paws. I have tried the Hornby end tipping wagon and it works ok. I plan to use a magnet to pull down a door catch but so far experiments have been a bit hit and miss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 I've added chequerplate to the bridges to hide Mr Blobby soldering. I will add more details as time permits and maybe even some....paint. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I'm going to try but i fear that may be a bit fiddly for my great paws. I have tried the Hornby end tipping wagon and it works ok. I plan to use a magnet to pull down a door catch but so far experiments have been a bit hit and miss. I think you could get away with the magnet on end/ sheet steel floor idea to hold the door shut whilst the wagon is flat, or on relatively shallow gradients. I have some self-adhesive 'magnet on a roll' that I picked up in Leroy Merlin if you'd like to try it. It might be a while before I post it as we're off to Syracuse tomorrow, but if you'd like a bit to try, you're welcome. I also have some 'magnetic paint' somewhere, but that might be problematic to post. It's nice to see someone working out a practical solution to something like this, rather than bemoaning the absence of a commercial product. It puts me in mind of some of the things one used to see in 'Model Railway News' in the Sixties, usually by Stewart Hine or that chap, whose name escapes me, who made working excavators (and even a moving horse, IIRC) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 Thanks for the offer but i have been accumulating 'useful parts' for ages so i have a good stock of magnets and ideas to try. I suspect i'll end up looking for an etched brass end door for any minerals i convert. The other thing i'm accumulating is information for the next project.. A Strachan and Henshaw Rotaside.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The 'wing' extensions pictured at Corrals Wharf appear, as far as i can make out, not to be present at Lincoln. They are clearly there to stop the end door opening too far and thus offering some degree of additional control/regulation to the discharge operation. Is this the case? Did all installations have these extensions? I've just come across this thread so this may have been answered before. The "wing" were more to stop the wagon rolling in to the pit rather than stop the doors opening too far, but they could have done this as well. The tipper could work with hopper wagons down the hole. I don't know if you've seen this photo, but you can see all four of the "wings" in this shot. OzzyO. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 The 'wing' extensions pictured at Corrals Wharf appear, as far as i can make out, not to be present at Lincoln. They are clearly there to stop the end door opening too far and thus offering some degree of additional control/regulation to the discharge operation. Is this the case? Did all installations have these extensions? I've just come across this thread so this may have been answered before. The "wing" were more to stop the wagon rolling in to the pit rather than stop the doors opening too far, but they could have done this as well. The tipper could work with hopper wagons down the hole. I don't know if you've seen this photo, but you can see all four of the "wings" in this shot. Copy of 10655738756_6b321dcc9a_o.jpg OzzyO. I have seen something of this picture but not this close up. The Corrals installation has what appears to be home made extensions to the wings that engage with the end door. https://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/6454428569/in/photostream/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I have seen something of this picture but not this close up. The Corrals installation has what appears to be home made extensions to the wings that engage with the end door. https://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/6454428569/in/photostream/ It could have been to do with the size of the coal that was been unloaded at Corrals, as in all the photos that I've seen it looks to have been small about 3". The one at Lincon would have dealt with more sizes. That's about all I can think of. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Some paint added. The concrete surround will get weathered in due course. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted March 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2015 Looking very good, any chance we could have a look at the underside please? Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Looking very good, any chance we could have a look at the underside please? Andy G Here is the underside.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted March 11, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 11, 2015 Ah, that makes it a tad clearer. I take it that the wagon stops are sprung to sit in the *against the wagon* position and the cam (on the left above) holds them out of the way. So when you turn the wheel, the cam moves and they spring inwards, and then the cam continues and lifts the platform? Cheers Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Spot on except for sprung read gravity. The brass bits from choc blocks act as weights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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